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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: Mike Thw on Friday 25 May 18 08:58 BST (UK)
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Catherine Jerman was baptised on 7 October 1860 in Aberffraw. Her parents were Thomas and Margaret.
This is (possibly) Thomas Jerman born 1831, Aberffraw.
I cannot find an obvious Thomas/Margaret marriage or any record of the family post the baptism.
Any help appreciated.
:P Work your Magic DragonT!!
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Possible? Covers Aberffraw
Marriages Mar Q 1847
Jerman Thomas Anglesey 27 521 same page Margaret Evans
EDIT
There is an online marriage for above to Anne Evans, which I think is the above, so very possibly not your couple. Anne Evans also included in list of poss spouses.
Cas
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Must admit, I didn't go back that far!
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Bapt also recorded/transcribed as German, abode Chapel St, Thomas a Lab. Image looks like Jerman.
See post #1 don't think the above posted marriage is your couple.
Cas
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Possible? Covers Aberffraw
Marriages Mar Q 1847
Jerman Thomas Anglesey 27 521 same page Margaret Evans
Cas
This marriage is between Thomas Jerman and Anne Evans 6 March 1847 at Llangefni Parish Church. FindMyPast has the image. Thomas Jerman is a sailor, son of Lewis Jerman, tailor. Anne Evans is the daughter of Hugh Evans, miller.
(Margaret Evans on the same page married William Owen 18 Jan 1847. Coincidentally, at the same church and also on FindMyPast)
I'll look further later. (added - just seen Cas (stalic)'s latest post)
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"Thomas Jerman is a sailor, son of Lewis Jerman, tailor" - Dragon T
Uncle of the one I'm looking for. Emigrated to Wisconsin, USA soon after marriage.
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:P Work your Magic DragonT!!
Hi Mike,
Magic not working today! There is a suggestion below but it is based on Catherine's mother's name in the baptismal record being wrong! Given the various spellings of the surname Jarman/ Jerman/ German etc, together with the use of patronymic surnames, there is plenty of room for error!
If your Thomas Jarman is the son of William Jarman and Mary - born 14 Oct Pen-y-graig, Aberffraw, baptised 13 Dec 1830 - non-conformist record from Rhosmeirch Independent, Llangefni, it seems he was married as the patronymic Thomas Williams. (As was the case with his brother William Williams/Jerman in an earlier post of yours http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=707927.0).
Thomas Williams,29, labourer, Llangadwaladr, son of William Jarman married Elizabeth Williams, 24, Aberffraw, dau. of John Williams, labourer on 4 May 1860 at the parish church Aberffraw.
I'm suggesting they were the parents of Catherine baptised 7 Oct 1860 at Aberffraw despite her mother's name being recorded as Margaret.
For all censuses after the marriage the family were recorded with surname Wiilliams at various addresses in Llangadwaladr:
1861 - RG09, 4347, 94, 21 - Thomas 30, Elizabeth 25, Catharine 7 months.
1871 - RG10, 5725, 83,10 - new child William 3, b. Trefdraeth
1881 - RG11, 5573, 59, 5 - new children Thomas 6 & John 2 b. Llangadwaladr
1891 - RG12, 4664, 65, 9
1901 - RG13, 5276, 119,1
William's birth was registered as born 1 Mar 1868, at Trefdraeth, the son of Thomas Jerman & Elizabeth Williams while Thomas (19 Oct 1874, Llangadwaladr) and John (12 Jul 1878, Llangadwaladr) were registered as the sons of Thomas Williams and Elizabeth Williams.
Elizabeth Williams died 24 Jan 1906 at Ty Newydd, Llangadwaladr, aged 66, the wife of labourer Thomas Williams. The informant was John Williams, son.
There was also a death of a William son of agricultural labourer Thomas Jarman at Bodewen, Llangadwaladr on 4 Feb 1867. His age was given as 18 months.
I can't find the birth registration for William (b.~1865) nor for Catherine, and I also haven't found baptisms for any child after Catherine.
Does any of this seem likely to you?
Regards
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Lot of Work there DragonT, thanks :)
With patronymic surnames thrown into the equation, I suppose anything is logical.
I'll have to study the information you've provided a couple of times to come to a conclusion.
Thanks again
Mike
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I'll throw another bit in the maze.
Did Thomas' son William Jerman/Williams (1868) who's birth was registered as Jerman marry Jane Jones in Q2 1892 as William Jerman?
He possibly ended up in 1911 in Llanbradach. Glamorgan as Williams with wife and family AND possible his brother John Williams, a widower, and his family.
Think I need at least one WedCert to sort it out!!
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Did Thomas' son William Jerman/Williams (1868) who's birth was registered as Jerman marry Jane Jones in Q2 1892 as William Jerman?
It looks like it - marriage 20 May 1892 at Llangwyfan parish church of William Jerman, 24, b, labourer, son of Thomas Jerman, labourer and Jane Jones, 17, s, dau of Robert Jones, labourer. Both bride and groom of Plas, Llangwyfan. FindMyPast has the marriage but the parish is wrongly transcribed as Llangristiolus.
I can't find the 1911 census, can you point me in the right direction? Do you know when they left Anglesey?
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I can't find the 1911 census, can you point me in the right direction? Do you know when they left Anglesey?
OK, got it now
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Some more information on William Williams and his brother John in Llanbradach, Glamorgan in 1911 (note no mention of Jerman).
In 1901 it seems William Williams is a boarder at Pontypridd (RG13, 5016, 132,4) while his wife Jane and the older children are in Anglesey:
Jane Williams, 26, b. Newborough
Elizabeth J. Williams, 6, b. Treorchy
Mary C. Williams, 4, b. Treorchy
Catherine Williams, 2, b. Trefdraeth
(RG13, 5275, 49,7)
Catherine's birth was registered on Anglesey - Catherine daughter of William Williams/Jane Jones b. Trefdraeth 4 Nov 1898 - as was Robert, son of William Williams/Jane Jones b. Llansadwrn 18 Feb 1902.
Looking at the children of John Williams in the 1911 census, those born in Anglesey had their births registered as:
Catherine, dau. of John Williams/Maggie Williams b. 4 Dec 1903, Trefdraeth
John, son of John Williams/Maggie Williams b. 21 Oct 1905, Llangristiolus
John & Maggie Williams were in Aberfan in 1901:
John Williams, 23, b. Bodorgan, Anglesey
Maggie Williams, 24, b. Llangristiolus, Anglesey (RG13, 5026, 66, 10).
I can't find the marriage of John and Maggie Williams, nor the death of Maggie, in Anglesey records.
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I think (maybe) John and Maggie's marriage was registered in Bangor in Q2 1900.
Nearest death of Maggie I can find was registered in Carnarvon Q1 1911.
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Most of my ancestors were named Jerman .The Thomas Jerman iv,e seen mentioned here I think is my ancestor .Thomas Jerman born 1778 in llangadwaladr and lived at a house called (college) near Aberffraw . yours john
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Hi John
Welcome to RootsChat.
I'm not related to the Jerman (Jarman, German etc.) Anglesey family but most of my family history is based on Anglesey and I have researched this family a bit in recent years.
The Thomas Jarman discussed in this post was (probably) the son of William and Mary Jarman, born Aberffraw Oct 1830. I haven't previously looked at Thomas Jerman b. 1778 in Llangadwaladr, but he is clearly from an earlier generation.
I've listed below some of the facts I have been able to find about him and his family - apologies if you already have this information.
Census 1841: Coledge, Llangadwaladr - Thomas Jarman, 60, weaver; Elizabeth, 45; Thomas, 15; Lewis, 5; all born Anglesey.
Census 1851: College, Llangadwaladr - Thomas Jerman, 72, weaver; Elizabeth, 56, Thomas, 27, weaver; Lewis, 15; all born Llangadwaladr.
Census 1861: Colledge, Llangadwaladr - Thomas Jarman (but transcribed Farman), 83, widower, pauper; Lewis, 25, weaver; both born Aberffraw.
I think Thomas Jerman married three times:
Thomas Jerman married Gwen Roberts 4 Jan 1820, Llangadwaladr, both otp.
Thomas Jerman, of Llangadwaladr, widower, married Elizabeth Jones, otp, spinster 21 Jun 1830, Aberffraw.
But note that Thomas signed his name in 1820 but signed by mark in 1830. ???
Judging from the baptisms and burials below, Thomas was married first to a Mary Jones, I guess sometime before 1801, but I haven't found the marriage.
Baptisms:
Dorothy the daughter of Thos. Jairman was baptized 7 Dec 1801, P. of Llangadwalader.
Margaret daughter of Thos. Jarmon of the parish of Llangadwalader was bapt. ?? Jan 1804.
Jane daughter of Thos. Jarmain by Mary his wife, parish of Llangadwaladr was bapt. 12 Mar 1806.
Anne daughter of Thos. Jarmain by Mary his wife parish of Llangadwaladr was baptized 2nd July 1808.
Dorothy the daughter of Thomas Jairman by Mary his wife was born 11 Apr and bapt. 29 Apr 1810.
(The above in Rhosmeirch Independent, Llangefni, on Ancestry)
Margaret dau of Thomas Jarman weaver, College, (Llangadwaladr) & Mary Jones (Llanfair Mathafarn Eithaf) b. 14 Jun 1811.
Mary dau of Thomas Jarman weaver, College, (Llangadwaladr) & Mary Jones (Llanfair Mathafarn Eithaf) b. 2 Aug 1813.
Elizabeth dau of Thomas Jarman weaver, Llangadwaladr, (Llangadwaladr) & Mary Jones (Llanfair Mathafarn Eithaf) b. 20 Oct 1815
Thomas son of Thomas Jarman weaver, Blach (Aberffraw) & Gwen Roberts (Llangadwaladr) b. 13 Jul 1823.
(The above in Calvinistic Methodist Births/Baptisms, Anglesey - (Pre-1837), Genuki)
Deaths/burials:
Burial Mary Jerman, College, 26 Oct 1818, age 44 – Llangadwaladr PR
Burial Mary Jerman, College, 12 Jan 1819, age 4 – Llangadwaladr PR
Burial Gwen Roberts, College, 11 Dec 1828, age 48 – Llangadwaladr PR
Death Thomas Jerman, Llangadwaladr, 27 Aug 1851, weaver age 28. Informant Jane Roberts, Llangadwaladr.
Death Thomas Jerman, Collage Llangadwaladr, 20 Jun 1862, weaver age 84. Informant Sarah Jones.
Death Elizabeth Jerman, Collage Llangadwaladr, 12 Jul 1860, age 67, wife of weaver Thomas Jerman. Informant Lewis Jerman.
Llangadwaladr parish records has his baptism - 'Thomas the son of John Jerman and Jane Roberts his wife was baptized 10 April 1778'.
I have also found baptisms for several of his siblings, it looks like many of the Anglesey Jarmans may be descended from John Jarman and Jane Roberts.
I hope you find some of this useful, how are you connected to this Thomas Jerman?
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The Thomas Jerman Jones who lived at college in parish of llangadwaladr wes married at Llanbeulan chapel on 9th may 1797 to Mary Jones. My grandad,s name was Thomas Jerman Jones and he lived in Portdinorwic. yours john
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Hello John,
Thanks for the PMs and the details of Thomas Jerman's marriage to Mary Jones. This marriage is shown here too (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGKV-1M43).
While researching Thomas Jerman and others with the same, or similar, surname on Anglesey it became clear that several were siblings, children of John Jerman and Jane Roberts. You have told me that you have information about fifteen of their children (!), so I'll just list what I found below. Please correct this and add those I've missed!
Thomas baptized 10 Apr 1778 Llangadwaladr, son of John Jerman & Jane Roberts his wife. You mentioned that Thomas was the youngest child.
William (crossed out and replaced by Richard) bpt. 8 Jan 1775 Aberffraw, son of John Jerman & Jane his wife.
Hannah bpt. 28 Mar 1773 Llangadwalader, dau. of John Jerman of Treberfedd & Jane Roberts his wife. Hannah German, infant, buried Aberffraw 9 Mar 1774.
Edward Jerman buried 22 Feb 1832, Aberffraw, age 61 (b.~1771)
Lewis Jarman died 10 Sep 1856, age 87. Born Llanllyfni according to 1851 census (b.~1769)
Dorothy bpt. 16 Oct 1767 Llanllyfni (CAE) dau. of John Jerman Teacher of a Welsh school by Jane his wife.
Richard bpt. 15 Dec 1765 Aber (CAE) son of John German by Jane his wife.
Ellen Jerman (may be husband's surname?) buried 30 Mar 1830 Llechcynfarwydd age 77 (b.~1753)
Your PM mentioned that John Jarman was born Bugeildy/Beguildy, Radnorshire in about 1713. I've noticed that Jarman is a much more common name in the Radnorshire/Montgomeryshire area. There is a baptism which may be him. It is rather faint and in Latin - on 20 Feb 1714 at Bugeildy, John (Johan) son of John German and Elizabeth his wife.
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Good morning Idris, In reply to your (PM) . I will do my best to answer the questions you asked me.
1) The date of the marriage was 9 may 1797,Bride,s name was Mary Jones
2) No details of the marriage sorry .But this might help .Their first child was born in 1829 in Trefdraeth.
3)Jane Jarmen,s children.
1. Edward Jones ,born 1829 in Trefdraeth
2. Ann Jones ,born 1831
3. Thomas Jones (Missionary) born 1833 Llangristiolus
4.Mary Jones ,born 1837
5.William Thomas Jones born 1839in Llechcynfarwy
6.Margared Jones born 1841 in Llandrygan
7. Hugh Jones born 1844 in Llanbeulan
4)Sorry donnt have details when Edward born but this might help us .Edward Jerman son of Thomas Jerman and Mary Jones.
5) I can,t help you on this question.Sorry
Ihope this info is of help to you.
All the best. your friend John
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Hi Idris
These are all of John Jerman,s children.
1.David Jerman son of John Jerman and Catherine ,born on 1, may, 1750
2.John Jerman son of John Jerman and Catherine ,born on 1,may, 1750
John Jerman marries Mary
3.John Jerman son of John Jerman and Mary born on 19 or 10,march, 1753
4.William Jerman son of John Jerman and Mary born on 9,nov, 1754
John Jerman marries Jane
5.Griffith Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 20,june,1758 in Llanllfni
6.Robert Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 23,june ,1759 in Caernarvon
7.Elizabeth Jerman dau of John Jerman and Jane born on 17,feb,1762
8.Edward Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 19,jan,1764
9.Richare Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 12,dec,1765 in Aber
10.Dorothy Jerman dau ofJohn Jerman and Jane born on 11,oct,1767 in Llanllyfni
11.Lewis Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 15, feb,1769 in Llanllechid
12.Edward Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 11,feb,1771 in Llanllechid
13.Hannah Jerman dau of John Jerman and Jane born on 23,mar,1773 at Treberfedd
14.Richard Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 2,jan,1775 at Mhenycw
15. Thomas Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 8,apr,1778 at Tyddyn Howel
I hope this of some use to you .John Jerman was employed by the Bodowen est as a secretary of some kind. He was also a teacher in Aberffraw school and also he was the town crier of Aberffraw .So John Jerman must have been a well educated man .he was employed by Y PARCH
Griffith jones from Llanddowror and Madam Beavan of Lacharn to open and look after church schools at that time .
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Hello Idris
Just thought I would write on here who Jane Jerman ,s hustband was and also the children they had together.
Jane Jerman born in 1806 in college,llangadwaladr.John Jones her hustband born in 1806 in llechcynfarwy.
their children were,
1.Edward Jones born in 1829 in trefdraeth.
2.Ann Jones born in 1832.
3.Thomas Jones born on 10,aug,1833 in llangristiolus. (Missionary)
4.Mary Jones born in 1837.
5.William Thomas Jones born in 1839 in llechcynfarwy.
6.Margared Jones born on 1841 in llandrygan.
7.Hugh Jones born in 1844 in llanbeulan.
from John Jones
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Jane Jarmen's children.
1. Edward Jones, born 1829 in Trefdraeth
2. Ann Jones, born 1831
3. Thomas Jones (Missionary) born 1833 Llangristiolus
4. Mary Jones, born 1837
5.William Thomas Jones born 1839 in Llechcynfarwy
6.Margared Jones born 1841 in Llandrygan
7. Hugh Jones born 1844 in Llanbeulan
The birth registrations for the children born after 1837 suggest that Jane was known as (the patronymic) Jane Thomas:
William b. 27 Apr 1839, Llandrygarn, son of John Jones & Jane Thomas
Margaret b. 6 Oct 1841, Llandrygarn, dau. of John Jones & Jane Thomas
Hugh b. 17 Mar 1844, Llanbeulan, son of John Jones & Jane Thomas.
There isn't a record for a marriage between Jane Thomas (or Jarmen) and John Jones on Anglesey in the period 1813-1833, one possibility is the marriage on 15 May 1828 at Llangefni of Jane Thomas (Llangefni) and John Hughes (Llangristiolus), both signed by mark. Wit:Hugh Jones (X), John Maurice. Perhaps John is the son of the witness Hugh Jones, here named patronymically?
In the 1841 census the family were at Llandrygarn (HO107, 1358, 5,5,2):
John Jones, Agr. labr. 35, Jane 35, Edwd 12, Ann 9, Thomas 7, Mary 4, William 2, all born Anglesey.
I haven't found them in later censuses.
There is a possible baptism for Edward - on 22 Mar 1829 at Llechcynfarwdd - son of John Jones (blacksmith) and Jane. I haven't found baptisms for the other children.
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The father of John Jones who married Jane Jerman name was Hugh Jones and he was a blacksmirth.His smithy was right alongside Llechcynfarwy church .He had three sons names William ,John and Owen.William and Owen stayed on at the smithy but John went to carry flour for Treban Mill. Jane dies on 5-jan-1847 shortly after John remarries a lady named Ann.John passed away on 3-may-1867.Ann passed on 22-1-1868. All three names are on the headstone in Llechcynfarwy churchyard.John Jones was known as" John Jones the carrier".John Jones was counted in the census in 1841 in Rhydysant,Llandrygan.He was counted in the census in 1851 in Pensarn,Llangwyfan.He was counted in the census in 1861 in tyn y felin,Llanbeulan.
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These are all of John Jerman's children.
1. David Jerman son of John Jerman and Catherine ,born on 1, may, 1750
2. John Jerman son of John Jerman and Catherine ,born on 1,may, 1750
John Jerman marries Mary
3. John Jerman son of John Jerman and Mary born on 19 or 10,march, 1753
4. William Jerman son of John Jerman and Mary born on 9,nov, 1754
John Jerman marries Jane
5. Griffith Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 20,june,1758 in Llanllfni
6. Robert Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 23,june ,1759 in Caernarvon
7. Elizabeth Jerman dau of John Jerman and Jane born on 17,feb,1762
8. Edward Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 19,jan,1764
9. Richard Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 12,dec,1765 in Aber
10. Dorothy Jerman dau ofJohn Jerman and Jane born on 11,oct,1767 in Llanllyfni
11. Lewis Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 15, feb,1769 in Llanllechid
12. Edward Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 11,feb,1771 in Llanllechid
13. Hannah Jerman dau of John Jerman and Jane born on 23,mar,1773 at Treberfedd
14. Richard Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 2,jan,1775 at Mhenycw
15. Thomas Jerman son of John Jerman and Jane born on 8,apr,1778 at Tyddyn Howel
Much of Thomas Jerman's history before his arrival on Anglesey can be traced in Caernarvonshire and Merionethshire parish records (all Findmypast).
1. Marriage 5 Feb 1750 (perhaps 1749) at Dolgellau - John Jerman 'a stranger' and Catherine Davies 'a servant'.
2. Baptism 1 May 1750 Llanycil - John and David twins of John German and Catherine his wife of Bala.
3. Burials Llanycil, 4 May 1750 - David, 23 May - John, sons of John German of Bala.
4. Burial 5 Jun 1750 Llanycil - Catherine wife of John German of Bala.
5. Baptism 6 Apr 1753 Llanycil - John son of John Jerman and Mary his wife.
6. Baptism 20 Nov 1754 Llanycil - William son of John Jermain and Margaret(?) his wife.
7. Marriage 29 Apr 1758 Bangor - John Jerman (but transcribed Thomas) & Jane Roberts
Baptisms of Richard (15 Dec 1765 Aber) and Dorothy (16 Oct 1767 Llanllyfni) given previously.
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Jane Jerman,s son William Thonas Jones was my great grandfather.
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First post on this site; I noticed this discussion from last year about John Jerman, where the missionary Thomas Jerman Jones was mentioned. My great-grandfather was Edward Jerman Jones (April 4, 1865 to March 24, 1920), born in Llangadwaladr, died in Chicago, Illinois. His father Edward Jones (1829 to 1891, also died in Chicago) was a brother of TJJ.
John Jones, thank you for posting all this great information.
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You are most welcome Dan Jones. Any more I can do to help do ask.
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I have some info witch may be of interest to yourself .yours john
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I would be delighted to hear more. According to the Rootschat rules, I need to have at least three posts, so here goes.
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I have a picture of my ancestor, Edward Jerman Jones, so I will try to add it as an avatar. He was a stonemason.
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Your ancestor (and mine) Edward Jerman Jones was indeed a stonemason .He moved yo Chicago and worked with an old friend there building a mill. His friend,s name was J.H.Jones. He was married to Mary Parry in Holyhead on Anglesey and had 10 children.3 buried at Liverpool and 7 born in America. regards john.
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He also worked in the slate quarry,s in N.Wales with his brother Thomas Jerman Jones.Before moving to Liverpool.
John