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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Derbyshire => England => Derbyshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cham on Friday 25 May 18 22:48 BST (UK)
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I just recalled that years ago, a couple of people claimed that Thomas Fouke of Codnor was born in 1571, and that his parents were William Ffolke (sic) who married Allan, Allen, or Ellen Giorlas, Georlas, or Glorlas 1551, no location mentioned. I thought that I would start with Derbyshire since I am sure that my Thomas Fouke lived here, Thank you for your interest and aid!
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There are trees on FamilySearch for Thomas Fouk in Staffordshire and London, but online trees are not necessarily reliable!
https://www.familysearch.org/search/tree/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Athomas~%20%2Bsurname%3Afouke~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1571-1571~&offset=20
Could you let us know what the earliest definitive evidence you have (from Parish Registers) of the Fouke family and we might be able to help track backwards.
All the best
Philip
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The earliest definitive evidence that I have of my family comes from the Church of England parish registers for the marriage of Thomas Fouke of Codnor to Dorothy Cham at the Church of St. Lawrence in Heanor on October 30, 1616. A Thomas Fowke is listed as a substitute church warden for St. Lawrence in 1613, representing Codnor and Loscoe, my educated guess is that he is the same as my Thomas who married in that same church three years later. My surname is spelled in a variety of ways, Fouke, Fowke, Foulke, Folkes, etc., and we may very well be a cadet branch of the Staffordshire Fowke family. In the Fowke of Brewood family tree that I have seen, a Thomas Fowke (d. 1586) had mother Anne Bradshaw from Windley, Derbyshire, married Elizabeth Cupper, and had children, Thomas, Richard, Ann, Susan, and Elizabeth. Nothing further is known of these children, could my Thomas Fouke be a son or grandson of this Thomas Fowke of Staffordshire? Thank You for your interest and help in this, it is deeply appreciated.
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PS- Yes, I agree, online trees are not very reliable. The Thomas Fowke on Family Search of St. Giles, Cripplegate, London, is the Thomas Fowke (d. 1586) of Staffordshire that I am talking about. He was a merchant in London at one time, this is true, but on this entry in Family Search he has been conflated with his nephew, John Fowke, and given John's wife Dorothy Cupper with their children! However, his parents John and Anne are listed correctly here.
I am also familiar with the Thomas Fowke (1571-1652) of Brewood, Staffordshire, who married Mary Ferrers on this Family Search site. He did have a son Thomas, but he was born too late (1614) and died a bachelor. Hope this helps separate the wheat from the chaff for you, I do appreciate your interest!
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From what you have posted you have done a huge amount of research already, so I won't give you the standard "beginners' advice"
I had a look on "British History Online" (BHO) just in case, but couldn't find anything (not surprising!). I will carry on looking, but since many records, if they survive, (such as Guild apprenticeships, manorial rolls and parish minutes) are not online, it's a case of 'don't hold your breath waiting'.
All the best
Philip
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Thank you for the compliment and your offer of aid, Philip, I was just doing some more research myself, and trying to tie it all together to make it easier on you and anyone else who reads this.
I went over the Family Search records again that you came up with for Thomas Fouke born 1571, and, just going by this criteria (assuming that he WAS born in 1571), he would be the Thomas Fowke on Page 1, born about 1570, in Enborne, Berkshire. From my own research, Thomas Fowke (c1534-March 3, 1586), London merchant-of-the-staple, born to John Fowke of Gunston in Brewood, Staffordshire, and Ann Bradshaw of Windley, Derbyshire (doesn't look that far from Codnor) married Elizabeth Cupper, daughter of Walter Cupper of Enborne, Berkshire. Going by location only, it looks as though Thomas could have met her when he was a London merchant, and that their children could have been born around there. The standard listing of them is Thomas, Richard, Ann, Susan, and Elizabeth.
The most serious deviation from this listing of children is from the British History Online site that you were looking on. In an article on Acton Trussell and Bednall, father Thomas (d. 1586) has returned to Staffordshire by 1575, and purchased half of the manor of Acton Trussell and Bednall, which he leaves to his son and heir JOHN. In another British History Online article about Dunston, Thomas has also purchased the manor of Dunston in 1577, conveyed half of it, and left the other half to his eldest son and heir John, who later sells it.
This would mean that the son Thomas was not the heir, and (my hypothesis only) could have gone to Derbyshire where his cousins would have been, and perhaps wound up as a small independent landowner or tenant (I do not know what my Thomas of Codnor's occupation was). Hope this helps your generous efforts on my behalf and for anyone who looks at this, much appreciated.
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PS- This may just be a coincidence, of course, but my Thomas of Codnor, besides having son Thomas, almost certainly had a daughter named Ann (named after his presumed grandmother Ann Bradshaw and/or his sister Ann)?
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As I had stated in my first post, a couple of people had claimed that Thomas of Codnor was born in 1571. I have traced these claims back to the notes of Alfred Rudolf Justice of Philadelphia. I found out that there was a Philadelphia silver manufacturer by that name born on Feb. 9, 1857, and that he WAS descended from Thomas Fouke of Codnor and Dorothy Cham. So maybe he did have access to records that we don't have, or can't find now. The rather garbled claim that Thomas of Codnor was the son of William Ffolke (sic) who married Allan, Allen, or Ellen Giorlas, Georlas, or Glorlas 1551 I still have found no sources for, and I have never yet found this couple listed anywhere else.
In Derbyshire, there was also a Fowke family of Ockbrook, but they died out in the male line without coming to Codnor. A Thomas Fowke of Horsley married Elizabeth Barrett at St. Alkmund's, Derbyshire on July 29, 1601. I had thought perhaps that this might be a first marriage for my Thomas Fouke of Codnor, since if he was born in 1571 he would have been 45 when married in 1616 to Dorothy Cham, but a list of the descendants of Thomas of Horsley reveals no migration to Codnor or a second wife.
If Thomas of Codnor was actually born in 1571, it would fit in perfectly with him being the younger brother of John, heir of Thomas Fowke (d. 1586), for according to the British History Online article on Dunston, John was a minor when his father died, and was not conveyed the lands of Dunston, along with Acton Trussell and Bednall, until 1589. If this means that he came of age (21) in that year he would have been born in 1568, with the other sons younger, of course. Still trying to fit the pieces together.
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From "Foulke Family" (1972), by Roy A. Foulke, which he got from the second part of "The Mitchells of Kentucky" (unpublished manuscript, compiled 1924), by Gerard Fowke. This particular information was originally compiled in 1911 by Edward Simmons Lewis, of St. Louis, Missouri, a descendant of the Staffordshire Fowke family, who spent several months in England that year, copying records, official and private (Heralds Visitations, additional MSS., printed books in the British Museum, and from charts owned by various families in England), all accepted as correct by English courts.
These records trace the Fowke ancestry through more than 300 lines, going back 5-15 generations prior to 1600, copied in the back of "Foulke Family". Is anyone familiar with this book or how to find these English sources? It's also stated that the Fowke name was represented by estates in Staffordshire, Hertfordshire, DERBYSHIRE, Dorsetshire, Gloucestershire, Shropshire, Warwickshire, and London, and that all of these pedigrees are to be found in the British Museum (can anyone access them today?).
The first named (Staffordshire) seems to be the oldest branch; at least among those named in the previous list. This coincides with what I am thinking regarding the ancestry of Thomas Fouke of Codnor.
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Correction- The Fowke ancestry traced through more than 300 lines, going back 5-15 generations prior to 1600, referred to in the previous post, is in the back of "The Mitchells of Kentucky" (1924), by Gerald Fowke, and there appear to be copies of this manuscript available. The copied book is about two inches thick, and is handwritten. Would very much appreciate it if anyone can locate these Fowke family charts.
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If my Thomas Fouke of Codnor is the same as Thomas Fowke, substitute churchwarden of the Church of St. Lawrence, representing Codnor and Loscoe, than he could very well have been a small independent landowner there. I have to read and study in order to learn this, but a native on RootsChat probably picks this up right away, and I appreciate the help people are giving me to try to make family connections in this period of time, several centuries ago.
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Hello everyone,
To make it easy for all of you good people who are reading this thread, go to reply #1 by philipsearching and click on his Family Search link there. On page 1, fourth name from the bottom, you can click on the family tree of Thomas Fowke, born about 1570 of Enborne, Berkshire, parents Thomas Fowke and Elizabeth. THAT is the connection I would make to the Staffordshire Fowke family IF he is my Thomas Fouke of Codnor. Thank You to everyone viewing this, and good luck!
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On another site, Designer Jeans has found "burial Ana wife of Thomas Fouke 8/8/1616 St. Lawrence, Heanor". Thomas Fouke of Codnor married Dorothy Cham in this very same church less than three months later, on October 30, 1616. Could Dorothy Cham have been the second wife of Thomas Fouke of Codnor, OR could Thomas and Ana Fouke have been his parents?
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According to the "Pennsylvania Magazine of History, Vol. II, p. 207", the family Bible of Thomas Fowke/Foulke (c1624-1714, son of Thomas and Dorothy Fouke), an old black-letter folio, was brought by him to Burlington County, New Jersey, from Holmgate, North Wingfield, Derbyshire, in 1677. It's a reprint of the 1541 Cranmer edition, imprinted at London on Dec. 29, 1549. This Bible is said to have been buried in the ground during the persecution of the adherents of the Reformed Church, during the reign of Philip and Mary (1554-1558), and has numerous marginal notes showing the peculiarities of the 16th century penmanship. Scattered throughout the Old Testament are the signature of Richard Smallwood and Francis Berdesly, which evidently belong to the same period as the notes, and they would be living at the same time as the great-grandparents of the above Thomas (c1624-1714) of Holmgate, if a connection could be made from him to them.
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On the "Wirksworth Parish Records 1600-1900" site, under "Wills, Probates, and Inventories", Designer Jeans has found
SURNAME First name Location Will Inventory Probate Comments
Fowke Ralph Ashleyhay 08Apr1590 06Dec1590 10Dec1590 (Foucke in will)
Fowke Roger Alderwasley 25May1573 01Aug1573 18Sept1573
This may be just a coincidence, of course, but Roger is a very frequent personal name in the Staffordshire Fowke family, as shown in the Surnames section of the "Fooks and Fowke Family Genealogy" site, pp.30-31.
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Last week, a fellow Foulke researcher found the William Ffolk and Ellen Giorlas mentioned as the possible parents of Thomas of Codnor. They are in the "Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the Marches; between the years 1586 and 1613, under the authority of Clarencieux and Norroy, two Kings at arms" by Lewys Dwnn, Vol. 1, page 87. The Ffolk pedigree at the bottom of the page shows them as the uncle and aunt of a Tomas Ffolk 1591, however, not as his parents. I do not know how those earlier Foulke researchers connected Thomas of Codnor to this Ffolk family of South Wales, who originally lived in Haverfordwest, the heart of "Little England beyond Wales", which was a Norman colony there. Since Folk was a Norman name, this family probably originally came during the Norman invasions from 1093 on in that vicinity. More research and verification needs to be done to verify these claims.