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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Autumn9 on Sunday 27 May 18 16:48 BST (UK)
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Good Evening,
I am trying to locate the parents of my Great Great Grandfather James Esherwood. James was born in Westminster on 7 Feb 1866.
On the 1881 census (aged 14) he was located living at an Industrial School in Essex, joining the army shortly afterwards.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/ESSRG11_1756_1760-0315/5006765?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001351583/edit/record
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/gbrmil1914r4pt2_138500-00727/645592?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001351989/edit/record
I cannot locate any birth records for James, but I know his father was called Benjamin Esherwood from James' marriages certificates (he was married twice). Benjamin was a sailor.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_196301-00220/2693433?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001247125/edit/record
James had two brothers called Bennett and John, and possibly a sister called Ellen (Not 100% on the sister, I found her name as a next of kin on one of the brothers army service records but she is not named on James' like his two brothers were).
I'm after any help that could point me in the right direction of James' mother, and more information about his father. I just can't seem to find anything at all.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi,
Have you found the birth's of Bennett or John, which can then be used on the GRO website for the mother's maiden name.
Wonder if James was born at sea?
JJ
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Hi,
Have you found the birth's of Bennett or John, which can then be used on the GRO website for the mother's maiden name.
Wonder if James was born at sea?
JJ
At the moment I only have information about Bennett, he was located at the same Industrial School as James.
Edited: They were all at the Industrial School. John joined the army aged 14 like James did but died approx. aged 30 in a workhouse after being released due to ill health. I think he died of TB.
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Hi,
Have you found the birth's of Bennett or John, which can then be used on the GRO website for the mother's maiden name.
Wonder if James was born at sea?
JJ
At the moment I only have information about Bennett, he was located at the same Industrial School as James.
Where and when was Bennett born :-\
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There is this family in Westminster in the 1871, siblings match but not a lot else :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBF6-VZ3
Mike
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[/quote]
Where and when was Bennett born :-\
[/quote]
I don't know. The only information I have about Bennett so far is that he is located at the same industrial school in Essex as James.
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There is this family in Westminster in the 1871, siblings match but not a lot else :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBF6-VZ3
Mike
Oh that could be them. I'll do some further digging with that information. Thank you!
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There is this family in Westminster in the 1871, siblings match but not a lot else :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBF6-VZ3
Mike
The original gives place of birth for Bennett, James & John as Westr. ie Westminster no mention of Westmorland. Shropshire is not mentioned either
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1871 transcribed on Anc****y as Sherwood -
RG10 Piece 120 Folio 36 Page 65
Father's occupation - Hawker
JJ
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Where and when was Bennett born :-\
[/quote]
I don't know. The only information I have about Bennett so far is that he is located at the same industrial school in Essex as James.
[/quote]
In 1881 Bennett is in an Industrial School in Feltham, Middlesex
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Maybe John's birth registration :-\
Births Jun 1869 mmn Donovan
ISHERWOOD John
Westminster, St. M. 1a 375
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I notice a Catherine Isherwood aged 42 (wife of Bennett, Hawker) widow in the workhouse in May 1881.
Admitted with Bronchitis.Back Sept. 1881 with asthma & died.
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Death of Bennett Isherwood aged 48, Mar qtr 1879 Whitechapel.
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Death of Catherine Isherwood
20 Sep 1881, Stepney White Chapel, Tower Hamlets
Age at Death - 43
Registration district - Whitechapel
Vol 1c Page 215
JJ
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Lan-OPC has a baptism for a Bennet Isherwood, born 31 Dec 1832, on 31 March 1833 at Edgworth (Independent) Chapel.
Parents: James & Betty.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk
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A possible for Catherine Donovan 1851:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4q/
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Lan-OPC has a baptism for a Bennet Isherwood, born 31 Dec 1832, on 31 March 1833 at Edgworth (Independent) Chapel.
Parents: James & Betty.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk
And another child with the same name at the same chapel, born 31 Jan 1834 & baptised 8 Apr 1834.
Parents: John & Jane.
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Just found that one:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4r/
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Just found that one:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4r/
Interesting to see brother Squire there.
A Bennet and Squire Isherwood of the right sort of ages to be these brothers received a number of convictions for larceny in Lancs 1847-8.
(But I suppose the other Bennet may also have had a brother named Squire).
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I notice in 1851 Squire is in prison.
What's left of the family in 51:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4s/
Don't want to jump too far back but Jane may be Jane Hamer married to John Isherwood in 1828.
I'm put off by the large number of children there is called Isherwood mmn Hamer.
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I notice in 1851 Squire is in prison.
What's left of the family in 51:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m4s/
Don't want to jump too far back but Jane may be Jane Hamer married to John Isherwood in 1828.
I'm put off by the large number of children there is called Isherwood mmn Hamer.
Thank you all for your help so far!
When you say you're put off, do you think this isn't the right family?
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Good Evening,
I am trying to locate the parents of my Great Great Grandfather James Esherwood. James was born in Westminster on 7 Feb 1866.
On the 1881 census (aged 14) he was located living at an Industrial School in Essex, joining the army shortly afterwards.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/ESSRG11_1756_1760-0315/5006765?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001351583/edit/record
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/gbrmil1914r4pt2_138500-00727/645592?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001351989/edit/record
I cannot locate any birth records for James, but I know his father was called Benjamin Esherwood from James' marriages certificates (he was married twice). Benjamin was a sailor.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_196301-00220/2693433?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/150781421/person/332001138256/facts/citation/962001247125/edit/record
James had two brothers called Bennett and John, and possibly a sister called Ellen (Not 100% on the sister, I found her name as a next of kin on one of the brothers army service records but she is not named on James' like his two brothers were).
I'm after any help that could point me in the right direction of James' mother, and more information about his father. I just can't seem to find anything at all.
Thanks in advance.
Hello
From the comments you may have this already?
Added: noticed Mike put a link. Definitely wants thorough investigation and a double check of all your other records against the full marriage indexes etc., again ...
1871 Census Place, St John, Westminster, London, Middlesex
Bennett Isherwood Head M 39 Blank, Lancashire
Catherine Isherwood Wife F 32 Brighton
Bennett Isherwood Son M 6 Westra, Westmorland
Ellen Isherwood Daughter F 8 Shoreditch, Shropshire
James Isherwood Son M 4 Westra, Westmorland
John Isherwood Son M 2 Westra, Westmorland
**Above transcription requires checking against the actual image**
I see in the links, reference to 'family-tree', not sure whose this is.
However, I wouldn't trust the family tree of anyone else, for all the tea in china. Nor would I trust the information from Family Search (from where I have quoted), without seeing the original Census image, or other original images Family Search volunteers have transcribed from.
There are numerous transcription and other errors online, both from documents and assumptions in trees, due to copying and other assumptions because they seem near enough, but can belong to another line (not even related).
In family history the researcher must be working backward from the actual Certificate Copies of your earliest known Ancestor known to you and your actual known family, along with the Census for this period in time 1841 to 1911, as primary information. Bear in mind Census Enumerators sometimes wrote down what they heard spoken.
When Civil Registration began in England and Wales in 1837, there was no Legal requirement to Register a Birth.
Bear in mind a few Census Sheets for England & Wales are missing. But it is possible to check with a place name, as the missing parts of a Census were generally listed on transfer to the Public Record Office (now TNA), Kew.
Mark
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On Free BMD 1861 to 1871 a search of Bennett first name and the only nearest was Bennett ISHERWOOD registered, who was claimed to be born in the District of Blackburn in the June Quarter of 1863.
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1861 to 1871 on Free BMD (England & Wales) I can't find any ESHERWOOD births at all?
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Perhaps the GRO Index gov.uk may have some 1861 to 1871?
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Going back to the 1871 Census transcription, it may be that the birth was not registered, or not registered straight away, by which time those parents had moved on, or did not Register the birth, or Registered birth later.
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A Hawker was a Seller, or Vendor and I suspect some travelled from place to place and around the country and there may have been a bit of romancing in the claims of some.
Mark
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After doing a bit of researching last night I realised that the family name probably should be Isherwood and not Esherwood. It looks like the Esherwood name actually began with my Great Great Grandfather and his brothers when they were enrolled at the Industrial School.
The 1871 census has the family living together in Westminster, but by 1881 the father had died and the mother was in a workhouse (dying herself later that year). The boys were then sent to an industrial school in Essex. I cannot seem to locate what happened to Ellen who would have been 18 at this point.
It seemed after this that James and John joined the army, and I can trace their lives from here.
The son Bennett I’m still looking into but he died in Grimsby in 1913.
I have no idea what happened to Ellen. I can not locate her at all but she is named as a next of kin on the youngest brother (John) army service record. She is not named on my James’ (which I find a bit odd as his brothers are named - and surely she wouldn’t be on the youngest brothers’ record if she had died as James joined up first).
I cannot seem to locate a marriage record forBennett and Catherine, nor any birth records for their children.
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The son Bennett I’m still looking into but he died in Grimsby in 1913.
Yes, Bennett ESHERWOOD, 91 Thorold Street, Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, died 1913.
Wills Calendar index (1858 to 1996) - Probate to Eva McFall (Wife of Thomas McFall).
For £10 might mention relative/s? They have been taking from a few working days to a week, currently. Download and save them though.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar
Is Mrs Eva McFall related? Person applying for Probate might be related, or an Executor appointed by the Testator's (deceased) Will.
Mark
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When you say you're put off, do you think this isn't the right family?
There are a large number of children called Isherwood all with mothers called Hamer from 1838 to the 1850's. All born Lancs. except Ann Jane born Yorks. 1842 who I believe is Jane aged 9 on the 1851 census (see link) with John & Jane. All the others after her must be from another family but not sure about the one's before her.
The same family from 1841 as they're still living in Almondbury.
So the family look like John & Jane (nee Hamer m. 1828) + children Squire, Bennett, Hannah, William & (Ann) Jane.
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The death age of Bennett ESHERWOOD in 1913 of 46 years in the printed Index, puts his birth about 1867 to 1866.
That birth in the District of Blackburn is 3 years out at 1863.
Mark
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I wonder if 'Ellen' is the Ellen Isherwood bc.1863, died June quarter 1875 St Albans, Hertfordshire.
Annette
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After doing a bit of researching last night I realised that the family name probably should be Isherwood and not Esherwood. It looks like the Esherwood name actually began with my Great Great Grandfather and his brothers when they were enrolled at the Industrial School.
The 1871 census has the family living together in Westminster, but by 1881 the father had died and the mother was in a workhouse (dying herself later that year). The boys were then sent to an industrial school in Essex. I cannot seem to locate what happened to Ellen who would have been 18 at this point.
It seemed after this that James and John joined the army, and I can trace their lives from here.
The son Bennett I’m still looking into but he died in Grimsby in 1913.
I have no idea what happened to Ellen. I can not locate her at all but she is named as a next of kin on the youngest brother (John) army service record. She is not named on my James’ (which I find a bit odd as his brothers are named - and surely she wouldn’t be on the youngest brothers’ record if she had died as James joined up first).
I cannot seem to locate a marriage record forBennett and Catherine, nor any birth records for their children.
A possible birth record for John was found by rosie99 at reply #10 (mother’s maiden name Donovan).
I would expect a Catherine Donovan to be Catholic - if so, baptisms are likely to be hard to come by as few Catholic records have been made available for digitisation.
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Thank you all for your help with this, I will sit down tonight and go through all the information thoroughly.
I have managed to find the burial place of James today, and he’s not too far from me so I have been to visit. Makes it more ‘real’ when you actually see where ancestors lived and are buried. It’s all so interesting. My main aim for researching isn’t to go back as far as I can (although I do want to do this as much as I can of course) but I want to find out exactly about their whole lives and how they lived etc.
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You have to feel for Catherine, life dealt her a cruel hand. Bennett being variously described as a hawker & musician (& possibly in & out of prison) sounds like he was a street musician so pickings would have been frugal & erratic & they would have been living in the poorest accommodation.
After his death Catherine most likely took in washing to try & make ends meet until ill health put a stop to it.
Being in & out of the Workhouse Infirmary meant the children most likely had to fend for themselves & that's why they were put into an Industrial school.
A far cry from her life in Brighton.
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The son Bennett I’m still looking into but he died in Grimsby in 1913.
Yes, Bennett ESHERWOOD, 91 Thorold Street, Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, died 1913.
Wills Calendar index (1858 to 1996) - Probate to Eva McFall (Wife of Thomas McFall).
Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 29 December 1908
Bennett Esherwood, a Grimsby engineer, went into a plumber’s shop on Christmas Eve to buy a gas-fitting, and being in one of those moods induced by over-indulgence in drink, he flung a puzzle-purse on the counter and defied the shopkeeper to get his pay out of it. The plumber tried hard, and broke a stud off the purse, whereat the engineer went away muttering. In half and hour he returned, calmly unlaced his boots, put one on each hand glove-fashion, and then deliberately smashed every pane of glass in the shop front.
Yesterday he admitted the folly of his behaviour at the Police Court, and undertook to pay the £2 damage and 8s costs.
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You have to feel for Catherine, life dealt her a cruel hand. Bennett being variously described as a hawker & musician (& possibly in & out of prison) sounds like he was a street musician so pickings would have been frugal & erratic & they would have been living in the poorest accommodation.
After his death Catherine most likely took in washing to try & make ends meet until ill health put a stop to it.
Being in & out of the Workhouse Infirmary meant the children most likely had to fend for themselves & that's why they were put into an Industrial school.
A far cry from her life in Brighton.
When I looked into James and his first wife Sarah, it appears that they lived in the poorest area of Whitechapel (around the same area Catherine would have lived previously), and at the same time and place that Jack the Ripper was about.
Although James was never had much money, And he wasnt born into the best life, he certainly turned it around for himself during his later years.
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Oh interesting!! Thank you!
The son Bennett I’m still looking into but he died in Grimsby in 1913.
Yes, Bennett ESHERWOOD, 91 Thorold Street, Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, died 1913.
Wills Calendar index (1858 to 1996) - Probate to Eva McFall (Wife of Thomas McFall).
Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 29 December 1908
Bennett Esherwood, a Grimsby engineer, went into a plumber’s shop on Christmas Eve to buy a gas-fitting, and being in one of those moods induced by over-indulgence in drink, he flung a puzzle-purse on the counter and defied the shopkeeper to get his pay out of it. The plumber tried hard, and broke a stud off the purse, whereat the engineer went away muttering. In half and hour he returned, calmly unlaced his boots, put one on each hand glove-fashion, and then deliberately smashed every pane of glass in the shop front.
Yesterday he admitted the folly of his behaviour at the Police Court, and undertook to pay the £2 damage and 8s costs.