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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Fresh Fields on Monday 28 May 18 23:09 BST (UK)
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Hello fellow researchers.
Over committed at the moment, so help would be appreciated.
Last night as the clock turned over to a new day, I was attempting to put together a 300 word bio on Pukekohe woman Helen SHARP nee SHARP for ‘Lady Mary’ and their Franklan County Woman’s suffrage petition project.
Went to check informal information supplied to me in the 1980’s, by a niece [since died] re one of Helen’s sons, Alexander [William John] SHARP and found the B D & M registration gave his wife’s maiden name as BRASS. Marriage 1908 / 1683. That was a surprise to me.
Alexander died at Auckland in 1923 aged 54. 1923/1160. Searches of the other names I have, did not provide the results I was looking for confirmation, of the oral history supplied. However last night the PP service would not allow me to refine my search to just Auckland newspapers, so with search criteria of ‘A & SHARP’ the hits were excessively large, even with narrow date time lines. I also attempted to find evidence of Alice in either the Pukekohe East, or Gordonton communities, prior to marriage to Alexander SHARP, but was unable in the time available.
Alexander and his younger brother James went to farm at Gordonton in the Waikato in 1906. Their parents Wm & Helen SHARP sold out and moved down to them in October 1906. Alexander’s health failed him, so he sold out in 1916 and relocated to Auckland, where he ran a general store / dairy / bike shop until his death, I believe in the Grafton area. Have previously seen some adverts etc on Papers Past.
Oral information supplied to me which I would like to verify. Some already published in reunion books, but I would prefer to validate, and not perpetuate miss information.
Alice [Elizabeth Alice] on a Mortgage transfer document, maiden name BRASS [NZ, B D & M 1908/1683] but niece supplied info had Alice LEA-HIGGANBOTHAN married to Alexander SHARP in 1908, bringing to the marriage sons Arthur LEA [married PRICE of Thames] and George LEA, who I believe became a farmer at Ngongataha, Rotorua. Alice and Alexander had one son Alexander [Sandy] SHARP. 1908 / 25397.
Before submitting the bio to the Pukekohe NZSG group, I would like to know more about Alice prior to her marriage to Alexander SHARP. Eg to sort out the BRASS – LEA – HIGGANBOTHAN surnames.
Regards,
Alan.
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Have you considered Higginbotham as a variant spelling? Or Higinbotham?
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You have this birth:
1880/4076 Brass Alice Margaret Thomas
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Here is something to consider:
Birth
1889/18292, HEGINBOTHAM, Alice, Louisa, George, 0
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It would appear that this Alice married:
1911/6990 Alice Heginbotham John William Fairfax Norrie
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Thanks Twiggy for having a look up for me.
I have some major dead lines to meet over the next month, and am too over committed to look further into this family.
Some 20+ years ago, I was able to assist a Gt Grand daughter, with South Auckland connections, to find relatives in Australia. Initally I told her I could not help, but then found a missing link.
I know nothing about Alice other than she was known as Alice [Aunty Alice etc.] I have seen a 1924 mortgage transfer document naming her as Elizabeth Alice SHARP. Both her husband and their son Alexander, were most commonly referred to as Sandy SHARP. Other than that name spellings is open, as info recieved was oral, and notes taken at that time.
Besides I can not spell, nor am I any good at proofreading my own copy late at night. I read what I want to read, and not necessarily what is in print.
Thanks.
Alan.
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Burial record for Alexander William Sharp
Date of death
29 July 1923*
Age at death
54
Gender
Male
Region
West
Cemetery name
Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location
Anglican Division F Row 7, Plot 30
Remains type
Burial
Date of burial
2 August 1923
Funeral director
J Weir & Company Limited
Map location
Map data not available
*Date of death differs from that shown in Letters of Administration.
Letters of Administration:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSS4-7SMP-T?i=415&cc=1865481
Death:
1961/36185 Sharp Elizabeth Alice 82Y
Birth of their son:
1918/6726 Sharp Alexander Thomas Elizabeth Alice Alexander William John
Burial record for Elizabeth Alice Sharp
Date of death
30 September 1961
Age at death
82 years
Gender
Female
Region
South
Cemetery name
Pukekohe Cemetery, 82 Wellington Street, Pukekohe
Plot location
Pkwes-H-035
Remains type
Burial
Date of burial
3 October 1961
Map location
Map data not available
Minniehaha.
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Death of the above mentioned son..........
1988/40473 Sharp Alexander Thomas 14 March 1918
Added: Probated will [1962] of Elizabeth Alice Sharp:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14779052
Minniehaha.
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The BRASS family (?)........
Marriage:
1869/7764 Margaret Smith Thomas Brass
Their children (?):
1882/13267 Brass Amy Bertha Margaret Thomas
1880/4076 Brass Alice Margaret Thomas [as shown in earlier post]
1876/6360 Brass Beatrice Margaret Thomas
1874/23433 Brass George Margaret Thomas -
1870/29830 Brass Margaret Margaret Thomas
1872/29076 Brass John Thomas Margaret Thomas
Minniehaha.
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This may be the marriage of your Thomas Brass, although I note there was another Brass couple with the same Christian names……
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18690804.2.8?end_date=31-12-1881&phrase=0&query=margaret+smith+thomas+brass&start_date=01-01-1869
Minniehaha.
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Thanks ladies.
Not as far ahead with the accounting that I should be, but can not resist having a quick look see.
Quite interesting seeing all the alternative names. Possibly because the SHARP men were usually referred to as Sandy, the documents give the men all the family given names, in the hope that they get some right. [William / John / Thomas] And surprised James did not get a mention.
Will attach a scan of the mortgage notation, naming Alice as Elizabeth Alice, so another to add to the conundrum.
Thanks,
Alan.
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Thomas Allen Lea
Elizabeth Alice Higginbotham
M-1899 Chorlton ,Lancashire.
Children
Frederick 1899-1899
Thomas Arthur 1906
George Elton 1913
First 2 born Chorlton ,Lancashire.George born in NZ
Still trying to find where the Brass fits in.
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Death notice for Alexander William Sharp [1923]…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19230802.2.2.4?end_date=31-12-1923&phrase=0&query=alexander+sharp&start_date=01-01-1923&title=ALG%2CAS%2CDSC%2CKWE%2CNZH%2CNZ%2CTO%2CPWT%2CROTWKG
Minniehaha.
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Looks like
Elizabeth Alice Higginbotham was born to Joseph Higginbotham and Jane Percival 1879 Chorlton.
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Two BRASS births in Lyttelton.........
Birth of a son, [1872]…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18720123.2.8?end_date=31-12-1880&phrase=0&query=t.+brass+&start_date=01-01-1867&type=ARTICLE
Birth of a daughter, [1870]…..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18700907.2.8?end_date=31-12-1880&phrase=0&query=t.+brass+&start_date=01-01-1867&type=ARTICLE
Minniehaha.
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Hello Alan
I'm arriving late to this search ... some helpful information has already been provided.
It does look to me though, that the 1908 NZ marriage (Alice BRASS - Alexander SHARP) that was supplied with the "informal information" you received, is incorrect (and you therefore have no reason to be chasing up the BRASS surname). :D
The following appears to be the correct marriage :
Elizabeth Alice LEA - Alexander William John SHARP -- Year : 1916
The Will of Elizabeth Alice SHARP confirms the names of her children >
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSL5-277X-V?i=40&cat=2240878
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Earlier in this thread, sue21757 gave the following Lancashire marriage and births, which matches to Elizabeth Alice SHARP.
Thomas Allen Lea
Elizabeth Alice Higginbotham
M-1899 Chorlton ,Lancashire.
Children
Frederick 1899-1899
Thomas Arthur 1906
George Elton 1913
First 2 born Chorlton ,Lancashire.George born in NZ
Still trying to find where the Brass fits in.
~ Lu
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Elizabeth Alice SHARP ( formerly LEA ) :
Elizabeth Alice LEA and her husband Thomas seem to have been in New Zealand from at least 1911, when Thomas Allen LEA - insurance superintendent - appears on the Palmerston (Manawatu) electoral roll at College Street West, Palmerston North.
According to records from Terrace End Cemetery, (Palmerston North), Thomas Allen LEA was buried on 28 December 1914. He was aged 38 years - occupation given as "insurance agent".
Elizabeth Alice LEA was the plot purchaser and the record notes there was no headstone.
~ Lu
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Looks like
Elizabeth Alice Higginbotham was born to Joseph Higginbotham and Jane Percival 1879 Chorlton.
Mmm ... only searched briefly and couldn't see the above birth (with parents listed) ??? Nor find them on census ??
In 1901, Elizabeth Alice LEA - 21 - wife - born Didsbury, Lancs. is shown living at 18 Weatherall Street, Levenshulme, Lancs. with her husband Thomas Allen LEA - 23 - grocer's vanman - b. Alderley Edge, Cheshire.
~ Lu
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Death of Thomas A. LEA : (husband of Elizabeth Alice LEA)
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19141226.2.18
~ Lu
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And a very frosty morning to you.
Another full on day ahead of me so unable to do justice to the research you are doing for this project, so a BIG THANKYOU.
Greetings LU - yes I have not experienced this problem before with NZ B D & M's but I' also wondering about their accuracy, without buying a lot of copies of the registrations.
LADY MARY has sent me a copy of the 1893 electoral roll with a number of Pukekohe East women there on highlighted. One thereon I could only place if a daughter of a woman I have information on, gained from searching the original ledgers in an Auckland down town bacement in November 1979 !
My notes show a birth entry submitted by the child's Grand Father, a Minister, but when I had a quick look last night, I could not find it with the Chriastian names I had recorded, BUT the other name on the electoral roll fits with family names, would have been born the same year 1872, yet I can not find further details about her. Don't know if twins or what. And no time to investigate further now.
Now looks like my research then into Pukekohe East pioneers was not a thorough as I thought.
Regarding Mrs Alice SHARP. I just don't know. information supplied to me many years ago by family implied that she was a formerly married woman, bringing the to boys to the new relationship. It was stated that they were pupils of the local scholl but I can not find their names listed in the reunion book.
1916 was definitely the year that Sandy left Gordonton as it is evident on the mortgage document that I have a copy of. I wonder if a divorce went through in 1916 ?
Must go - already late. THANKS EVERY ONE. Eventually we will have info for the Pukekohe ladies on this project.
NZ World leader in many things. Including land title and civil registrations. Got a lot to be thankfull for, even if transcribing has not been as accurate as we would like.
Alan.
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LADY MARY has sent me a copy of the 1893 electoral roll with a number of Pukekohe East women there on highlighted. One thereon I could only place if a daughter of a woman I have information on, gained from searching the original ledgers in an Auckland down town bacement in November 1979 !
My notes show a birth entry submitted by the child's Grand Father, a Minister, but when I had a quick look last night, I could not find it with the Chriastian names I had recorded, BUT the other name on the electoral roll fits with family names, would have been born the same year 1872, yet I can not find further details about her. Don't know if twins or what. And no time to investigate further now.
Now looks like my research then into Pukekohe East pioneers was not a thorough as I thought.
Alan.
Hello Alan .... you've sort of "lost me" with the above ^^ ???
Does it actually apply to the search for Elizabeth Alice SHARP (w/o Alexander William John SHARP) ???
~ Lu
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Sorry Lu just out the door.
Another of that clan. Descendants of William SHARP, Pukekohe East.
My records have Elizabeth Agnes SHARP daughter of Wm and Cecilia Brown [Doull] SHARP b 1872 d 1874.
Yet the 1893 electorial roll has a Cecilia Jane SHARP household duties, and upon looking up B D & M that Christian name finds a 1872 registration to same parents. Twins ?? Step grand daughter to Helen SHARP nee SHARP. Motgher was living at Ramarama but teacher at Pukekohe East school 5th July 1869 to Sept 1891. Cauight train to and from Pukekohe and walked the crater across country to P/E School each day.
In haste have found no other records for Ceceila Jane SHARP b 1872.
Alan.
Alan.
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So if you are specifically looking at the Alice SHARP nee BRASS, then there are 2 deaths that fit a c1880 birth (as per reply #2):
Alice SHARP dec 1961 notes in probate (Reply #7 & #15) that sons are Thomas Arthur LEA, George Elton LEA and Alexander Thomas SHARP.
Alice SHARP dec 1967 has a gravestone inscription in Pukerau (Gore) https://www.goredc.govt.nz/do-it-online/search-it/cemeteries/view/6881 There are 5 interments: Alexander Junior (Lex), Alice, Jane, Alexander, & Norman.
Two opposite ends of the country for a start.
The BDMH screenshots for the two possible Alexander SHARP marriages and subsequent offspring are attached. Edit: removed 2 births that I can't verify deaths for, otherwise all persons named here are deceased.
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Alan ... as I mentioned earlier, the Alice BRASS (married 1908 to Alexander SHARP), is not the same woman as the "[Elizabeth] Alice SHARP" you are seeking.
For the purposes of the elimination of Alice SHARP - nee BRASS, here is a copy of the death certificate of her son Alexander ("Lex") SHARP (born 1908 - birth registered at Gore ) died 1934 aged 25 yrs. >
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9R7-TL11?i=420&cc=1865481
~ Lu
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Therefore reply #23 proves that the Alice SHARP nee BRASS is the Alice buried in Pukerau.
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Regarding Mrs Alice SHARP. I just don't know. information supplied to me many years ago by family implied that she was a formerly married woman, bringing the to boys to the new relationship. It was stated that they were pupils of the local scholl but I can not find their names listed in the reunion book.
1916 was definitely the year that Sandy left Gordonton as it is evident on the mortgage document that I have a copy of. I wonder if a divorce went through in 1916 ?
Alan.
Some clarification is needed I think, Alan ? ;D
Regarding Mrs Alice SHARP :
* This lady was actually Elizabeth Alice SHARP - formerly LEA - widow of Thomas Allen LEA d. 1914.
* Married 1916 to Alexander William John SHARP.
* According to the death notice of Alexander W.J. SHARP (1923) she was known as "Alice".
* The two sons of the union of Elizabeth Alice and Thomas Allen LEA were >
Thomas Arthur LEA (b. 1906 - Lancashire, ENG) and George Elton LEA (birth registered 1913 at Palmerston North, NZ). England records show her likely maiden name as HIGGINBOTHAM.
* A further son, Alexander Thomas SHARP was born 1918 of her union with Alexander William John SHARP.
* Her death is recorded in 1961 as "Elizabeth Alice SHARP" .
* She is buried at Pukekohe Cemetery, Wesleyan Section :
* Her headstone inscription reads > " SHARP - Elizabeth Alice, our dear Mother, 30 September 1961".
~ Lu
Edits to make corrections to dates etc.
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Thanks Lu.
From what I have been told and what I have researched the above post of your's is the best fit particularly of information informally given me over 30 years ago. The informants now all being deceased.
The key for me is that the mortgage transfers were registered in the name of Elizabeth Alice SHARP, so that is what ties it in for me.
So a big thank you. I can safely complete the bio with confidence. The information I had implied that Mrs Lea and her two boys were at Gordonton with Alexander SHARP, before he left in 1916 and returned to Auckland. But I can not find a school roll listing confirming that in their reunion book.
No one had given me Sandy's actual wedding date, so that is what threw me when I went looking on line, with historic B D & M's. I do not have Ancestry and other subscriptions so am limited in what historical records I can look up from home.
Many thanks,
Alan.
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As this topic has not been signed off, I wonder if it is in fact complete?
If not, Alan are you able to provide the name of the mortgagee under No. 73933 [prior to transmission to Elizabeth Alice Sharp] as shown on the portion of the Certificate of Title at reply #10.......
Minniehaha.
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Hello.
Thanks for bringing this oversight to my attention. Too much happening at the moment. I'm happy with the clarity re Alice SHARP that you were able to provide.
The bio's for the Pukekohe project had a copy deadline of July 31st, so on Tuesday when I returned home from my weekly business trip north, I had a quick proof read of our combined efforts and tried to get some cemetery photos. I was liaising with ladies working on Bombay and Pukekohe East enrolments. Space limitations ment some spouce info did not make it into print, but will be part of the archive created in support of the project.
Their function is at Pukekohe on September 15th.
Will look into finding a link or copy of their poster.
Alan.
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Congratulations to you and your team on this work.
And where would we be without the genies (geniuses) on this board......take a bow everyone. I have been following this and the other bios you have been working on.
:D ;D