RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: MacGrigor on Tuesday 29 May 18 01:34 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
As I am well aware, many records from WW1 are hard to trace. But I'd appreciate any efforts. I recall one impressive record being found for Frank Thorogood that completely profiled his service.
I've searched for the following as they have rare names and were of age for conscription:
Gilbert Pepper, born 1884, Cambridge. There is a Gilbert Pepper awarded the British and Victory medals. Royal Engineers. Service number WR/330032. Not sure if this man is the same who is a younger brother to my great-great-grandfather Frank - last seen with him in 1911 in Eltham. Don't know when he died.
Morris Lipman, born 1887, Shoreditch. There are two medal indexes, but one died. Mine died in Romford in 1948. The one that may be him is in the Army Service Corps. Service number R/359173.
I'd appreciate any help, although I realise it will be difficult to investigate,
Adam
-
Gilbert Pepper, born 1884, Cambridge. There is a Gilbert Pepper awarded the British and Victory medals. Royal Engineers. Service number WR/330032. Not sure if this man is the same who is a younger brother to my great-great-grandfather Frank - last seen with him in 1911 in Eltham. Don't know when he died.
Have you looked to see if he married. If he did have you checked where and when any children were born.
Have you looked for him in 1939 so that a time frame for his death can be established :-\
As you have said many WW1 records were destroyed, those that are available are on Ancestry / F M P
-
Have you looked at the Commonwealth War Graves site to see if he died? Have you checked both Find my Past and Ancestry - as Rosie says if the records survived then that is where they are. Your Frank Thorogood just happened to be one of the 40% that did survive.
It isn't really a question of being hard to trace (which implies that they are there somewhere to be found). As the National Archives info makes clear http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-after-1913/ with the exception of a very small number of pension records all surviving records (for discharges before 1920) are on one or other of the subscription sites. You obviously have quite a list so a sub to both sites would be well worth it.
MaxD
-
There's no war grave for this Gilbert so presumably he survived. He is on the 1939 register in Bexley, born 1884. And yes it looks like I will be needing a subscription; my birthday is next month so I may ask for one.
-
Probably married in 1914 in the Lewisham district as that's not far from Eltham.
-
That's v sensible indeed. Meanwhile free access at a local library is worth looking into as Rosie has suggested before.
To help your list, his service record is among the non-survivors. He was in the Inland Waterways element of the RE so if his pre war trade was to do with barges etc then it might be your man but it can't be proven.
MaxD
-
His occupation looks like carman (as the transcription on FamilySearch also says) on the 1911 Census so I'm not sure. I only really looked into him because it's an uncommon name and he would have been eligible for conscription.
-
Does his service record give a date of birth?
-
I can't make out his rank from his medal index card - it looks like a scribble to me ;D then under remarks something is noted upon that I can't make out either.
P.S. I did try to attach the file and a screenshot of the section but it was too large
-
There isn't a service record as I said!
His rank is Sapper (private soldier in the RE) - abbreviated to Spr on the card.
The wording below is that his BWM (British War Medal) was returned, the remainder are letter references which won't be found today. The medal roll says it was returned by the police in 1930 which implies that it was lost, handed in and the police returned it to the medal office. Whether he eventually got it is unknown.
MaxD
-
Sorry, you confused me with the way you worded the non-survivors part ::) but thank you very much, that's cleared all that up.
-
From familysearch
Gilbert Pepper
Death 09 Feb 1968 Santa Clara, California, United States
Birth Date 24 Jul 1884 England
Mother's Name Scarr
Nellie R Pepper
Birth 6 December 1893 England
Death 1 November 1972 Santa Clara, California, United States
Gilbert Thomas Pepper
Death 20 Jul 1981 Riverside, California, United States
Birth Date 05 Sep 1914
Birthplace Unknown
Gender Male
Mother's Name Archer
I will leave you to look for any other family out there
-
Thanks!
-
If he's likely to be the Gilbert Pepper at 109 Arsenal Road, Eltham, on the 1918 and spring 1919 electoral registers, then that one was an absent/naval or military voter
Not sure there is another Gilbert Pepper it could be?
-
Morris Lipman, born 1887, Shoreditch. There are two medal indexes, but one died. Mine died in Romford in 1948. The one that may be him is in the Army Service Corps. Service number R/359173.
There's a surviving army record in WO 363 for Morris Lipman, Army Service Corps, no. R/259173
That card does say R/359173, I think it's a Silver War Badge card.
20 years old in April 1917
living 29 Gt. Titchfield St ??
next of kin, father Abraham Lipman
Doesn't appear to have served abroad, discharged no longer physically fit. Could be the chap on the card, if there was a slight error.
-
Ah yes, the Silver War Badge record has him as R/359173, like the card, and both say enlisted 2.3.16. Actually that does match the service record, which says "deemed to have enlisted 2.3.16" and weekly pension from "2.3.18". Discharge on SWB record was 1.3.18
So that's the same guy, whether he's yours or not I don't know.
-
Well that discounts my Morris Lipman - his father was Benjamin.
And does the bit on Gilbert Pepper mean the one in Eltham was away at the war? Sorry I'm a bit slow ;D My Gilbert Pepper was living in Eltham in 1911 with my great-great-grandfather, Frank.
-
It means he was in the armed forces for sure. The fighting had probably stopped by then.
It's a good sign!
-
Thanks! Well that's the last little bit of confirmation I needed. So that's one great-great-great-uncle, three great-great-uncles and one great-grandfather who served in WW1. Thankfully, all returned home, although 3 were injured.
-
Thanks! Well that's the last little bit of confirmation I needed. So that's one great-great-great-uncle, three great-great-uncles and one great-grandfather who served in WW1. Thankfully, all returned home, although 3 were injured.
But who knows how it affected them mentally ???
-
Yes, well reportedly my great-grandad was gassed and apparently this contributed to a relatively early death. He apparently was very reticent when it came to discussing the war. I don't know about the others. Frank Thorogood served from 1914 to 1919, so he's likely to have been the most affected.
-
Many people will tell you that their relations did not discuss what happened to them in the war. It must have been a traumatic time.
-
Yes, very. Fortunately we live in more peaceful times.