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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Les de B on Monday 04 June 18 14:23 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to establish where my wife's BENSON family lived in the small village of Auchendinny during the 1851 Census.
In that Census the entries are given a household number, then the actual addresses start as "1 Auchendinny" through to "28 Auchendinny". As Auchendinny is basically one street, would it be probable that the Census people just walked up one side of the street, reached the end, crossed over the road, and walked down the other side giving addresses 1 to 28?
Francis BENSON and his family are given the address of "5 Auchendinny", next to "6 Auchendinny" which is owned by an Innkeeper, presumably No.6 being an inn? The only inn that I can find in Auchendilly is The Victoria Inn, but I cannot find any history on it.
So, if you look at the photos, they roughly show the same view but one c.1920's(?) and one 2015. I've circled the Victoria Inn in both photos.
Now, my theory is, as there are roughly 5 houses on the left going up to the Victoria Inn (some changes over the years), do you think one of those houses on the left could be "5 Auchendinny", the house of the BENSON's.
Or, does somebody else have a more practical suggestion on how to work out which house it could be? My wife and I are visiting the town later this year, and it would be nice to know which one it was, or at least might be?
Thanks, Les.
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LOL...one thing I have learned is never believe the enumerator walked down one side of the street then the other.
That being said each of the dwellings are marked "The Brae" with different numbers just below the roof line; 5-17 is the one that has the white first floor. Was it always this number? I have no idea.
Do a Google drive by.
Don
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I would say the white cottage marked in your top pic has gone, and there is a piece of open ground with something like a garage in its place. Note that this (white cottage) site is in front of the row of three houses which run at an angle to the main road, whereas the building marked in your lower pic is past these houses.
Hibee
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Here is a link to a zoomable map of the village in 1894....
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82878390#zoom=4&lat=2642&lon=14464&layers=BT
Hibee
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You want to start with a map closer to 1851. Try this one
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=55.8452&lon=-3.1926&layers=5&b=1
In most streets, the odd numbers are on one side and the even numbers are on the other, rather than going along one side and then back along the other, though there are exceptions to this (Findhorn and Tomintoul are two that spring to mind, but they're nowhere near Auchendinny).
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Hi Les de B, I'm only a 5 minute drive away from Auchendinny. If it would help, I could explore/take photos? Unfortunately, being an 'in comer' of 30 years standing, I don't know the full history of the area.
Kit
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Since Path Head House and Dalmore immediately precede 1 Auchendinny on the Census Roll, it is likely that 1 Auchendinny is at the southern end of the village. It follows that 5 Auchendinny is on the left, as you go northwards, and is either the 3rd or 5th household, depending on the numbering system.
Hibee
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Reasonable deduction, Hibee.
I took a virtual walk up and down. Several of the houses on the brae are too recent to be the one the Bensons lived in. However there are three blocks of what look like early 19th century houses on the left as you look uphill. The second and third blocks are labelled with numbers I can't read, except for the second number of the second block which looks like 17. If so, it suggests that there are 8 houses in the two blocks, four in each block, two up and two down. If so, and assuming that the numbering system hasn't changed, which is a big 'if', the Bensons would have been in either the upper or the lower house at the upper end of the first block.
On the other hand, the oldest map seems to show a building below/south of the first of those three bloacks. In which case my hypothesis above is blown out of the water.
Maybe KitCarson will be able to find the answer by going there!
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This is the current 5 The Brae from sale particulars in 2016 (Rightmove)
Isobel
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That is exactly where I mean by the 'first block'.
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WOW! Thanks for ALL your replies and ideas!
Don - Yes, I've done a "Google Drive", and have seen that the houses now have the street name The Brae, with odd numbers on west side and even numbers east side. I think these street numbers would be modern day. Back in 1851, I doubt there were any numbers at all, with the enumerator writing a household number on the Census for each family, but giving a house number i.e. "1,2,3,4,5, etc Aucheninny" for the actual house lived in, as some house numbers had more than one family living in them. As which way the enumerator recorded the families, I can only hope he walked north, doing the western side first, as this would fit in for the innkeeper living at "6 Aucheninny", the present day Victoria Inn.
Hibee - the building I have circled in both photos would be the same i.e. Victoria Inn, its just the different lenses make them look a little different. Thanks for your map link. I was on that site yesterday, but couldn't one. Yes, extra eyes do help! I do agree that the Census was started from the south western side with 5 houses up the inn which would be 6, as shown by the address numbers written in the Census. I also agree that the house on the western side going up the hill look old enough to be from 1851, and big enough to house a number of families at the one address. As I indicated in Don's reply, I think the current house numbers are more recent.
Forfarian - thanks for the older map reference, which also compares a modern day aerial view. The old map basically shows the same buildings in the modern aerial shot, though the modern Victoria Inn appears it could be a newer inn than the original 1851 inn - that is providing I have the right position for the original inn. I'm only assuming this because "6 Auchendinny" had the head as Innkeeper. I've put my thoughts of the current numbering system in the previous replies.
KitCarson - thanks for your kind offer. If you have nothing to do one day, would it be possible to take up that offer. I was wondering if you find out when the Victoria Inn was built, and/or whether there was an inn at location in 1851. In my "Google Drive by" I looked for a date on the inn but couldn't see one. Perhaps a local resident might know? It appears the inn is now a private residence? My wife and I will be visiting Auchendinny in September, but as we are on limited time, I'm trying to arm myself with as much information as I can now to save time when I get there.
Isobelw - I think that the current 5 The Brae, may not be the actual "5 Auchendinny" in the 1851 Census, but I reckon its one of the blocks in the possibilities?
Just a little extra from the 1851 Census - "1 Auchendinny" housed 3 familes, "2 Auchendinny" housed 1 family, though there was also one unoccupied household, "3 Auchendinny" housed 2 families, "4 Auchendinny" housed 1 family, and "5 Auchendinny housed the BENSON family. Next address was the innkeeper with family at "6 Auchendinny".
Les
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Have you checked the 1855 Valuation Roll on Scotland's People? A whole double page of (about) 50 records can be viewed for just 2 credits - location, proprietor, occupants, tenants.
Hibee
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Thanks Hibee - currently only have membership to Ancestry, my membership to Scotland's People ran out some time ago. I've just searched their index, and there could be some entries in there relating to the family. May have to rejoin - do you think the information might help for a location of the house?
Les
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What Parish is this as there are a couple with name Auchendinny in different parishes?
Searching Midlothian with 'Inn' brings up quite a few so Parish would scale it down.
Annie
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What Parish is this as there are a couple with name Auchendinny in different parishes?
Glencorse or Glencross.
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There is a Mrs MacGill ( publican in 1851 was Agnes McGill) listed in Auchendinny in the 1855 valuation.
Isobel
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Not sure whether you've seen this?
http://www.ime.co.uk/ime-comes-auchendinny/
Annie
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Thanks Hibee my membership to Scotland's People ran out some time ago.
SP is not a membership site. Registration and access to the indexes are free, but it's pay-per-view to see the images.
I see from the index that James and Isabella are both in Glencorse in 1861, with Margaret (2), Francis (1) and Isabella (0). There are 10 other Bensons in the parish. It is possible that the full image of the original might give some clues to the exact location of the house.
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I see from the index that James and Isabella are both in Glencorse in 1861, with Margaret (2), Francis (1) and Isabella (0). There are 10 other Bensons in the parish. It is possible that the full image of the original might give some clues to the exact location of the house.
Someone else connected to this family, details of that 1861 census listed here;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=291069.0
Annie
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Well, I am glad that I didn't spend time and effort looking up what is already on one of the other threads about this same family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=291069.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606877.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=607137.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794529.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786615.0
No fewer than four of the threads are in the Midlothian forum.
Les, if you start new threads about the same people, please always include a LINK to all the previous ones, so that people can see what is already known about them. That way RootsChatters won't waste their time going over old ground.
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Les, if you start new threads about the same people, please always include a LINK to all the previous ones, so that people can see what is already known about them. That way RootsChatters won't waste their time going over old ground.
Yes, aware of some previous posts, but this post is a completely different subject. I know about the family, however, this post is just trying to identify the actual house they lived in during the 1851 Census from the photo I attached, nothing else. The other threads did not cover that subject.
Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and the delay in responding (for some reason I have received notification of recent replies to post).
Les
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Les, if you start new threads about the same people, please always include a LINK to all the previous ones, so that people can see what is already known about them. That way RootsChatters won't waste their time going over old ground.
Yes, aware of some previous posts, but this post is a completely different subject. I know about the family, however, this post is just trying to identify the actual house they lived in during the 1851 Census from the photo I attached, nothing else. The other threads did not cover that subject.
Indeed not, but as you can see some RootsChatters have gone off and looked up other census etc, not knowing that you already had all that information. You knew it was a related topic but other people did not.
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I used some Scotland's People credits to work on this post.
Hibee
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In Isabelw's photograph of no 5, there is, in the background, a white, modern house which my father built around 1982, it was number 1 The Brae. It was built in the ground belonging to Mrs Campbell, who had the shop at the foot of the brae. It had to be demolished to provide visibility for access onto main road. The numbers start at the bottom of the Brae and, from memory, are odd numbers on that side of the road
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Hi Les de B, apologies for the delay in responding. As usual, family life has got in the way.
5-17 and 19-33 are upper/lower style accommodation. I will try and post some pics but my last attempt wasn't great as I tried to attach too many pics. Kit
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View from the bridge
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Rear
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Unusual street furniture opposite the Victoria Pub (hidden under bushes)
Edit: no idea why it has turned on it's side. Will try again.
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Drinking fountain?
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Again, no idea why the 'fountain' has turned on it's side. Sorry.
On the picture showing the rear of the row of accommodation, No5 is on the end and the lower property.
Opposite the pub, and up off the roadside are a row of houses. There is only one that still has a date inscribed and it shows 1877.
Kit
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Les de B My mother-in-law's parents (James and Jane Middlemass) ran the Victoria Inn for several years around 1930. Jane grew up in the Affleck family home which is 5-17 The Brae in Auchendinny.