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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: KitCarson on Monday 04 June 18 17:45 BST (UK)
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In 2009 I purchased a Marriage Certificate and I can't now remember if it was at the local registrar office or via GRO (probably locally as I was new to this and visiting the area quite often at this time).
I'm keen to see if the bride's father was a Tailor rather than a Joiner and if one of the witnesses was Elizabeth CLARE rather than Blare and I want a version which is a 'photocopy' style (rather than transcribed, which is the style I have)
The marriage was at Blackbrook Chapel RC in St Helens, Lancashire on 21 July 1849. The marriage was between William Rimmer, Batchelor, Glass Finisher residing at Westfield Street, whose father was William Rimmer, Groom and Ann Culy, Spinster of Sutton whose father was William Culy, Joiner. Both were of 'Full Age'.
I am struggling to find Thomas Cully, who was the informant on the death certificate of Wm and Ann's daughter Elizabeth 1855-1862. Father Wm had died in 1860. The only Thomas Cully I can find, who is in the right area has his father as a Tailor when he marries Ann Hill in 1840.
An Elizabeth Culley, Widow marries John Clare, Stonemason on 16 Jun 1823 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England and I wondered if she may have been the witness in 1849.
Very much appreciate your views/advice. I only need advice on the BMD issue.
Kit
EDIT: adding a link to an earlier post.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=475345.msg3347496#msg3347496
and another!!! you can see how desperate I am.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=528340.msg3829897#msg3829897
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In 2009 I purchased a Marriage Certificate
Why doesn't that give the information you require?
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Hi jim1, because it has been handwritten by the registrar in 2009 and they may have transcribed the information incorrectly. I would like to see the 'original'.
Kit
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For that you need to see the Parish Register held at the County Records Office.
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I understood that the records held by the local Registry Office were the originals - and those at the General Register Office were copied --- is that wrong?
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If the church still exists, they may still have the original register
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I'm pretty sure that for a RC marriage in 1849 there would have had to be a registrar present to do the registration, and he/she would have brought the registers with him/her.
It should be possible to tell from the certificate whether this was the case: other than the modern signature saying "This is a true copy....", who else has signed in an official capacity? If one of the signatures is a registrar's, that would indicate that it's a register book that was the responsibility of the superintendent registrar, rather than one kept at the church. These registers can only be found at the register office.
Having said that, many (most? all?) churches that needed a registrar to attend marriages kept their own unofficial registers as well, so if the register office can't/won't help, that would be something else to explore.
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I THINK these are the catholic records at Preston RO
http://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=RCBL%2f3
Not too clear. The ref is RC.....
I'd give them a ring to find out. I'm sure they would be very helpful.
They would probably know where they are if these are not them.
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Thanks for all your suggestions. I should have mentioned that the whole of the 2009 certificate has been hand written by the Deputy Registrar and is in blue ink so is a modern copy of the original.
Also, thanks to goldie61 for the link. I shall have fun this weekend looking around what records might be available. I see a trip to Preston on the horizon :D
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You could also try contacting the local RO and asking them to have another look. If it's not possible to make a photocopy of the original, perhaps they might be willing to photograph it for you. Make it clear that you've already paid for a copy. Nothing to lose by asking.
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It should be possible to tell from the certificate whether this was the case: other than the modern signature saying "This is a true copy....", who else has signed in an official capacity?
Thanks for all your suggestions. I should have mentioned that the whole of the 2009 certificate has been hand written by the Deputy Registrar and is in blue ink so is a modern copy of the original.
I possibly didn't make myself clear. When I referred to signatures, I actually meant "Whose signature appears on the certificate as having been involved in the ceremony and/or registration at the the time of the marriage?"
Even if what you have is a modern handwritten transcript, it will include a transcription of the signatures from the register and the capacity in which people signed, and knowing that capacity should help you to work out whether the registers came from the church or the register office.
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Sorry for the delayed reply. The copy says "Married in the Blackbrook Chapel according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church by me, James Abraham" and then on the line underneath is says "William Brunskill(?) Registrar"
Kit
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OK, thanks - that indicates that the registrar was present at the ceremony, and would have brought the register books with him/her.
So the only official marriage register(s) will be at the register office, though there might be an unofficial one at the church or wherever their old registers have been deposited.
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So I will do as Sloe Gin suggested and contact Prescot Registrars and explain that I have a written copy from 2009 but would they be able to check the name of the witness and the occupation of the bride's father.
cheers, Kit