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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Cjennmom on Tuesday 05 June 18 01:14 BST (UK)
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Help! I'm looking to find out what a name is from my family tree. I'm not sure if the origin is Gaelic or simply old Scotch, and spelling in those days wasn't a sure thing, a lot of phonetics abounded. The name is Lawchwarit and it was the maiden name of my 11th gr grandmother who appears to have been born in Berwickshire. I had a mini epiphany lately that perhaps Lawch might have been Loch but I'm still stuck on the warit part. It would also be nice to know what the name might have become with the advent of regular spelling. If specifics are needed, my ancestress was Janet Lawchwarit, b. ~1612, and she ended up married to Patrik Geillies (Gillies). TIA!
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I think it may be an idea to post an image with some extra script for comparison for us to see as it doesn't look like a surname, rather a place name?
What is the doc, where did you get it & where was the marriage?
Annie
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Hi, thanks for the suggestion but I don't have a doc. This was an online record of baptism of her son Thomas (b. 1632) in Dunse, Berwickshire from ancestry.com. Thomas himself was married by the early 1650's to a Janet Alline who had originated in Loth, Sutherland and their son William was born in Dunse in early 1653. I'm just really stumped by 'Lawchwarit' since it's so different to anything I've seen or heard before.
I think it may be an idea to post an image with some extra script for comparison for us to see as it doesn't look like a surname, rather a place name?
What is the doc, where did you get it & where was the marriage?
Annie
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It may be worth getting the original from SP to actually see it as it may be mistranscribed or show something different to a surname?
GEILLEIS THOMAS
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAWCHWARIT FR40
13/05/1632
735/10 63
Duns
Annie
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Unless, could she have been of foreign descent?
Annie
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Costs are a factor. Even my cousin, another amateur genealogist who actually lives in Scotland, makes due with the extracts because of cost. :(
It may be worth getting the original from SP to actually see it as it may be mistranscribed or show something different to a surname?
GEILLEIS THOMAS
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAWCHWARIT FR40
13/05/1632
735/10 63
Duns
Annie
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"makes due with the extracts because of cost"
I think you mean transcriptions which are not extracts as extracts are docs. from the original Register of BMDs.
Another Baptism
GEILLEIS PATRIK
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAUCHNARET FR86
01/11/1646
735/10 153 Duns
Annie
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Another
GEILLEIS MARGRAT
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAUCHWARET FR52 (FR52)
25/09/1636
735/10 89 Duns
Annie
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Kids for Thomas;
GEILLEIS WILLIAME
THOMAS GEILLEIS/JENET ALLINE FR116 (FR116)
29/01/1654
735/10 213 Duns
GEILLEIS -----(No name)
THOMAS GEILLEIS/JENET ALLINE FR126 (FR126)
10/12/1655
735/10 228 Duns
Annie
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the transcriptions found by Annie (Rosinish) LAWCHWARIT, LAWCHNARET, LAWCHWARETdon't immediately point to any Scottish surname I have found on surname lists.
Except....perhaps...just perhaps...a remote possibilty..... LOCKHART (and that's pushing it a bit!)
I wonder if it would be possible top find a male sibling of Jenet (or any male with the same surname) and tracking children forward a few generations to see how the name developed.
Philip
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Wow, TY very much for all this extra stuff. As for the records, said cousin goes to the office in Edinburgh, pays for access to the files, and manually transcribes what she finds. I guess it's what works when you're in research mode and have to look at many things to confirm, deny, or otherwise trace the family line.
Kids for Thomas;
GEILLEIS WILLIAME
THOMAS GEILLEIS/JENET ALLINE FR116 (FR116)
29/01/1654
735/10 213 Duns
GEILLEIS -----(No name)
THOMAS GEILLEIS/JENET ALLINE FR126 (FR126)
10/12/1655
735/10 228 Duns
Annie
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Lockhart had briefly crossed my mind as perhaps -warit could have slurred to -arrit and -art phonetically but it really seemed a stretch and most of my surname lookups gave the impression that it had a German base - possible in England but much less common in Scotland.
As for tracing down the siblings, it's a good idea but I have yet to get parents for her. :P
the transcriptions found by Annie (Rosinish) LAWCHWARIT, LAWCHNARET, LAWCHWARETdon't immediately point to any Scottish surname I have found on surname lists.
Except....perhaps...just perhaps...a remote possibilty..... LOCKHART (and that's pushing it a bit!)
I wonder if it would be possible top find a male sibling of Jenet (or any male with the same surname) and tracking children forward a few generations to see how the name developed.
Philip
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Philip, I did think of Lockhart/Lochart but it's an elastic band....a stretch ;D
Baptism
LAUCHWARET ALLEXANDER
JOHNE LAUCHWARET/JENET ROBERTSONE FR59 (FR59)
03/02/1639
735/10 99 Duns
Annie
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There's a Isobell Lauchwaret & Jenet on MyHeritage but I don't have a sub.
Annie
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Allisone Weir was born to Wlliame Weir and Isobell Lauchwaret
Baptized 1640,
Annie
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GEILLEIS MARGRAT
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAUCHWARET FR52 (FR52)
25/09/1636
735/10 89 Duns
Seems they had 2 daughters with same name, possibly 1st died or 2 different entries, one with wrong date?
Margrat Geilleis was born to Patrik Geilleis and Jenet Lauchwaret.
Baptized 1636
Margrat Gilleis was born to Patrik Gilleis and Jenet Lauchwaret
Baptized 1639
Annie
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I've noticed that names got reused a lot with child deaths.
GEILLEIS MARGRAT
PATRIK GEILLEIS/JENET LAUCHWARET FR52 (FR52)
25/09/1636
735/10 89 Duns
Seems they had 2 daughters with same name, possibly 1st died or 2 different entries, one with wrong date?
Margrat Geilleis was born to Patrik Geilleis and Jenet Lauchwaret.
Baptized 1636
Margrat Gilleis was born to Patrik Gilleis and Jenet Lauchwaret
Baptized 1639
Annie
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"makes due with the extracts because of cost"
Just for information ....
Scale of charges here:
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/our-charges
At 7.50 for 30 credits, this is really a minimal cost - and probably cheaper than your cousin's bus fare to the NLI in Edinburgh. ;) ;D Maybe the two of you could share the cost? (you say your cousin pays to acces the files anyway)
Alternatively, if your cousin is viewing the original documents, could s/he photograph the word so we could take a look at it (and be sure to include a record or two either side for comparison)?
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Philip, I did think of Lockhart/Lochart but it's an elastic band....a stretch ;D
I agree! But I just couldn't think of a better alternative
There is one of those dodgy "buy your family crest" online sites that has:
Lockwarte Lockweard Lockwearde Lockweart Lockweer Lockwerd Lockwert but I don't think that would help.
However, I did a quick search on Ancestry and there are LOCKWART (not many!) transcribed from the 1871 census in Lanarkshire, so that might be a possibility.
Philip
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Costs are a factor. Even my cousin, another amateur genealogist who actually lives in Scotland, makes due with the extracts because of cost. :(
You should never, ever, trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document. Transcriptions and indexes and (especially) other people's trees are very useful as pointers to where to find the original information, but no substitute for checking the original.
G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland doesn't mention Lauchwarrit as a synonym for Lockhart. However he says, "Janet Laucharrit recorded in Edrom in 1670 most probably derived her name from Lochquarret (now Vogrie) in Midlothian".
See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT3763 and
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT3760
Black's reference is to the Lauder Commissariot records
Laucharrit, Janet, 11 July1670 in Edrem, spouse to William Currie, testament dative & inventory, Lauder Commissary Court CC15/5/6
This is one orginal that is probably not worth getting. A 'testament dative' means that she left no will, so there is not likely to be useful information about her family connections.
BTW don't ask for a photograph of anything from the SP centre. In the search rooms, you are not allowed to take photographs of the screen.
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on Ancestry and there are LOCKWART (not many!) transcribed from the 1871 census in Lanarkshire,
I did a quick search on SP index & no Lockwart for 1871, most likely a transcription error which should read LockHart?
Annie