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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: clontarf on Tuesday 05 June 18 02:14 BST (UK)
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The civil marriage index for the Jan-Mar quarter 1839 has no entries for ABBOT(T). Every other quarter around that period has 20-30 entires for ABBOTT.
Abbotts did get married in early 1839 because parish registers exist for them. I have found the Abbott spouse for 8 of these parish registers in the civil index, so the marriage entry does exist in the civil register. Just the Abbott half is missing from the index. The index visible online is a typescript. Looking at other missing names from 1839 Q1, it seems one to two pages of the original handwritten index have either not been typed or are missing.
Is there any way of checking the original handwritten indexes?
I am looking for a possible marriage for a Jabez ABBOTT to Eliza in the first quarter 1839, probably in London/Middlesex/Essex.
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Did they have children in England, and if so what mother’s maiden name is shown on their birth registrations?
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I suspect this is from the baptism of an Eliza Abbott bp.17/5/1840 at Whitechapel (born 29th April), dau. of Jabez Abbott and Eliza - Jabez a farmer. I note he remarried in 1841.
My thoughts are that when he remarried 1841 he was indeed a widower BUT not previously married to an Eliza. It looks like Jabez first married a Sarah Clemson Carter in 1835 - she was buried 16/2/1837 Poplar.
I suspect that he had a 'liaison' with an Eliza and had a daughter of the same name baptised in 1840. There was only one Jabez Abbott who was a farmer and in 1841 he was living alone in East Ham with 2 servants.
There are only 2 Eliza Abbott birth registrations in the area in 1840 - one in June quarter Shoreditch - no mmn so illegitimate. The other in Sept.qtr. 1840 Bethnal Green, mmn Boomer (and parents are a John and Mary). Jabez' daughter Eliza may well have been registered in her mothers maiden name which of course we don't know.
Annette
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Hi Annette,
Thank you for your suggestions. Yes, this query arose from the 1840 baptism of Eliza. And yes, Jabez did first marry Sarah Clemson Carter in 1835 and then Ellen King in 1841. His daughter from the first marriage, Sarah Carter Abbott was born 7 Jan 1837 and was baptised at East Ham.
Because Jabez is the only one who is farmer in the area at this time, it does seem probable 1840 Eliza is his daughter. I too suspect a "liaison", however ....
Jabez had 11 children with Ellen King, 4 of whom have surnames as middle names. The first two John Venables Abbott and Ann Venables Abbott are named after Ellen King's stepfather. The others, Ellen Sheriff Nicoll and Donald Nicoll, might offer a clue to Eliza's name. Neither Nicoll or Sheriff appear anywhere in Ellen King's ancestry or cousins. Since Nicoll is used twice it must have meant something special to either Jabez or Ellen. But would Ellen have accepted two of her children being named after her husband's former mistress? The simplest explanation for the two surnames would be that they are Jabez's grandmother's names (his mother was a Williams). But no one else in his very large family has so honoured them; and I have seen a suggestion his paternal grandmother may have been Mary Ring (one of his sisters is Mary Ring Abbott). On the other hand if Jabez was married (very briefly) to Eliza, I think it possible he may have wanted to preserve her memory in the names of his later children.
If Eliza is the daughter of Jabez Abbott of Wall End Farm, then I think she must have died young. She is not with Jabez in the 1841 census or with her half sister Sarah who is living with her maternal grandfather, John Carter. But I have been unable to find a plausible death - for her or her mother.
I have tried to find a civil registration for an Eliza Nicoll or Sheriff in 1840, but nothing seems to fit. Jabez has acknowledged her as his daughter at the baptism. Would he then register her under her mother's name if she was illegitimate?
If Jabez did marry Eliza then unless the original indexers of the civil register have completely bizarrely misread Abbott, the marriage must have taken place between Feb and June 1837 or in the first quarter 1839, which is why I am wondering if there are any other avenues besides the published indexes to look at the civil register. First quarter 1839 would actually fit quite well with Eliza's birth in Apr 1840 if she is legitimate. I have so far checked registers for Whitechapel, Poplar and 25 parishes in western Essex (including East and West Ham), looking for the potential marriage.
If Eliza is illegitimate, and her mother's name was not Nicoll or Sheriff, then I suppose there is not much chance of finding out what happened to her.
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You could read "The Marriage Records of England & Wales, A Comedy of Errors" in two volumes, by Michael Foster. The study reveals the infinite variety of ways in which the records have suffered from errors and omissions.
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mikefost/
Stan
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Unfortunately when some of the early handwritten index volumes were replaced with typed copies the originals were withdrawn. Several years ago the GRO still had some (but not all) of the withdrawn volumes, but they were not accessible to the public.
There is an outside chance that a copy might still exist. The typed copies were made around the same time that the indexes were being microfilmed; if the filming was done before this particular volume was typed, you will be able to see the handwritten version on film. But it has to be the microFILM version, not the more recent (and much more widely available) microFICHE version. But if the film version shows typed pages, there is no way of getting at the old handwritten version :(
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I have just found all the baptisms of the children of Jabez Abbott and Ellen King, plus several of their marriages in the registers of St Mary Magdalene, East Ham.
If Eliza Abbott 1840 is this Jabez Abbott's child, then the fact that she is not baptised at East Ham would be consistent with her being illegitimate. That impression would be strengthened if I could show there is no marriage for a Jabez Abbott and Eliza recorded in Q1 1839.
Thank you, Mean_genie for that information about the handwritten indexes. The local LDS library did have some scattered reels of the microfilm version, but unfortunately Q1 1839 was not among them. Does anyone know if the GRO indexes are included in the LDS digitisation project and, if so, are they using the microfiche or microfilm edition?
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Does anyone know if the GRO indexes are included in the LDS digitisation project and, if so, are they using the microfiche or microfilm edition?
LDS catalogue
Index to the civil registration of births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales, 1837-1980
Microfilms of manuscripts in St. Catherine's House, London.
The microfilms are listed here (long list!)
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/47767?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Only a minority have been digitized, you will need film 506966 for March qtr 1839 marriages (not done yet)
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Thank you jonw65. I will follow that up - I am a little out of touch with the local process for accessing LDS films. Of course it still may only show the typed index, but there is a faint hope.
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The abode stated at the time of Eliza’s baptism is Colchester St, which was within the registration district of Whitechapel. There are not all that many Eliza birth registrations with no middle name in Whitechapel in Jun qtr 1840. You may be able to rule some of them out to find a prime candidate or two and take a chance with a £6 pdf birth record that one of them was born in Colchester St to a mother named Eliza.
Surnames for the Jun qtr 1840 Eliza births in Whitechapel are:
Ballard (mmn Thompson)
Caffyn (baptism shows dau of John - shoemaker - & Eliza, of York St)
Collett (mmn Willis)
Cummins (mmn Johnson)
Edwards (mmn Scouse)
Everett (mmn Drew)
Hall (mmn Corr)
Lynch (mmn Warner)
Neal (no mmn)
Stubbs (mmn Keys)
Thompson (mmn Collins)
Vile (mmn Howells)
Not yet traced Eliza Neal, but it’s looking like the others were all born to married couples
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Thank you avm228. That is a most interesting list.
On the face of it Eliza Neal could be a prime candidate if all the others are born to married couples, assuming my Eliza Abbott was actually registered.
I have seen lots of baptisms for base born children, but never a civil certificate. Would an illegitimate child always be registered under the mothers surname? If the father was prepare to acknowledge the child, as it appears Jabez Abbott may have done, would it be permissible for him to choose to register her under his name?
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It couldn't have been Eliza Neal birth Jun.1840 Whitechapel - she appears to have died in Jun.1840 Whitechapel (age 0).
Annette
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Hi
On those LDS microfilms, you can't order them any more, they have stopped doing that. So it may be a case of waiting for that one to be digitized, and then viewing it on a computer at the family history centre. Unless you can find a centre that has the film.
They say that all films should have been digitized by the end of 2020
https://www.familysearch.org/ask/faq#overview
On the birth registration of Eliza, remember that not all births were registered in those first years.
John
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It couldn't have been Eliza Neal birth Jun.1840 Whitechapel - she appears to have died in Jun.1840 Whitechapel (age 0).
Do we know that “our” Eliza did not die in infancy, though?
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We don't. In fact, if Eliza is a legitimate Abbott or an illegitimate Eliza Neal, she almost certainly did die in infancy. I have been unable to find an Eliza Abbott or Eliza Neal of the right age and birthplace in the 1841 or 1851 census. A third option - that she is an unregistered illegitimate child of another surname who did not die in infancy - is a dead end as far as investigation is concerned, unless sometime in the future the civil death register is re-indexed to allow searches on the father's name.
There are two Eliza Neals in the census born about 1840 in London, but both have married parents. I found the baptism of the daughter of John and Elizabeth in Whitechapel in 1841 (born 21 Sep), and the daughter of William and Jane was born 1839/40 in Brompton.
I have found a couple of Eliza Neals buried as infants 1840/41. One that just might be relevant is Eliza Ann Neal, buried on 30 May 1840 at Christ Church Spitalfields, aged 9 weeks, residence Blossom Street. There is no Eliza Ann Neal(e) birth or death in the civil register - just the Eliza Neal death registered Jun qtr 1840 at Whitechapel. Exactly 9 weeks gives a birth date of 28/29 March, so she could only be Eliza Abbott if the minister or parent(s) have got the month wrong at her baptism; or (less likely) the burying minister has written 9 in error for 4.
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Blossom St was in Whitechapel registration district so there is a good chance that Eliza Neal and Eliza Ann Neal are one and the same, and can therefore be ruled out (a month or so too old, and not a match on the home address).
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Re your question about surnames for illegitimate children, bear in mind that a civil birth certificate in the 19th century (and well into the 20th) did not specify a surname for the child at all. The surname is imputed from the parent(s).
A good explanation of the situation regarding unmarried fathers at various dates is given here:
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm (See under heading “Column 4”).
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Bear in mind also that the fact that the baptism record appears to show the child as legitimate does not tell you, reliably, that Jabez acknowledged the child as his. He may well have done, and they may well have lived as a family unit, but a baptism record does not tell you who presented the child for baptism or who was there at the baptism. It just tells you what information was given to the minister at the time about the child and its parent(s). It would have been perfectly possible for an unmarried mother to take a child for baptism and present it as legitimate, naming the father as though he were her husband.
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Well ... I took a punt, and ordered the 1840 birth certificate for Eliza Abbott registered in Shoreditch - and it is indeed her! She is illegitimate and her mother's maiden name is Wood.
Born: 19 Apr 1840 (baptism record says 29th) at 47 [Moneyew??] Street Hoxton New Town
Father: Jabez Abbott
Mother: Eliza Wood
Rank or Profession of Father: Farmer
Informant: Eliza Wood, mother, (24) [47 Moneyew Street (crossed out)] Woods Stables Colchester Street Whitechapel
When registered: 18 May 1840 (the day after the baptism)
In the right margin are words "Twenty" and a chopped off word above the signature of the registrar - a correction to the birth date perhaps?
I can no longer assume she died in infancy - in fact, I have a potential record in the 1841 census for her and her mother; but I now dont need to continue the search for a potential marriage for Jabez Abbott.
This is the first civil birth certificate I have seen for an illegitimate child. The index search result is misleading. Whether or not the parents are married, Wood is still the mother's maiden name.
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That’s great news :)
You are right about the danger of inferring too much from an index entry without seeing the full certificate. There’s a good explanation of the inconsistent treatment of illegitimate births by registrars in the early years of civil registration here (see under Column 4):
www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm
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I have now answered or rendered irrelevant my original query, so I will declare this COMPLETED.
Thank you all for your input.
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Good news, Clontarf! Just so you (and others reading this thread) know I contacted FreeBMD re. the 'A' surnames for Marriages March qtr. 1839 beginning with Abercromby - pages headed ABE-ADD - and that with at least 2 common surnames before 'Abercromby' i.e. Abbey and Abbott, it seemed extremely odd.
They replied and agreed it would seem logical but confirmed that when they did the transcriptions ABE-ADD were the first pages under 'A' and that although not visible when you look at the original page they are shown as pages 1 and 2. They suggested I contact the GRO direct which I duly did.
GRO acknowledged my email and will contact me in due course after investigation. It's possible there was an omission made when GRO changed from handwritten to typed lists - if that should turn out to be the case one can only hope that they still have copies of the hand-written lists. If there were earlier entries missing hopefully this error will be corrected.
Will let you know how GRO respond (although I do appreciate that you no longer are after a marriage for said Jabez Abbott). If there were omissions (and I feel there has to be) then thanks would go to you for highlighting the matter.
Annette
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Thank you Annette for that initiative. I will be extremely interested to see what the GRO's response is.