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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: jim234j on Thursday 07 June 18 23:50 BST (UK)
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Greetings from Winnipeg Canada
When I had research done on my surname Johnson before computers, the researchers I retained all came to the following entry and stopped there.
Name Thomas Johnson Gender Male Christening Date 15 Jul 1753 Christening Date (Original) 15 JUL 1753 Christening Place EARSDON BY NORTH SHIELDS,NORTHUMBERLAND,ENGLAND Father's Name Henry Johnson of The Avenue Head- " a farm on the road from Seaton Delaval"
(No other children found)
They then both had reached the end of the money I had gave them but one suggested Henry could of been from Alnwick but it was speculative.
I went to LDS and Ancestry records and as Thomas was christened 1753 and as I did not know of any other children I looked from 1720 to 1735 for a christening for Henry
I got the following possible christenings for my Henry
1724 Bamburgh Father Ralph
1724 Bamburgh Father Ralph
1720 Alnwick Father Henry
1733 Ovingham Father Ralph
I found two possible marriage for Henry
1751 Allendale Mary Mulcaster
1747 Eglingham Ann Bell
I looked at his sonThomas who married Jane Archbold and they named their children Reay , Mary, Anne, John,
Jane, Thomas, Edward, Henry and Mable.
I think I am at a dead end due to the common name and also due to the fact I dont know if there are more possible Henry's.
Any advice appreciated and thank you for all the help
Jim
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May be relevant?
Newcastle Courant, 12 October 1765, page 3, col 1.
To be LET, and entered upon at May-day next
A FARM of LAND, at the Avenue Head, near Seaton Delaval, containing 293 Acres of Arable Meadow and Pasture Grounds, now in the Possession of Elizabeth Johnson, as Tenant, Tithe-free
Boo
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Northumberland Archives has the following document that may or may not shed some light, given how close the date is to Henry's baptism:
Date: 30 April 1752
Title: Lease of Avenue Head Farm, Earsdon, Northumberland.
Description: Let to Roger Nixon for an annual rent of 90
Format: Deed
Ref No: 2DE/1/1/1
They also have photographs of the farm before & during its demolition.
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Thank you both for your replies.
They are much appreciated.
Elizabeth Johnson interests me. It is 12 years after Thomas Johnson birth, she puts the land up for rent but perhaps she is his fathers Henrys wife or relative and is renting out the land as he passed but that is me just speculating,
I will also look at the 1752 lease as as Jomot indicated may shed light and I may see he leased it from a Henry Johnson.
It has opened the dead end a bit for me
Jim
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I looked at Probate records, no way to know if its the same Elizabeth (or even your Henry) but worth putting in the possibles category I think.
Henry Johnson, farmer of the chapelry of Earsdon. Administration bond, penal sum £100, 22 July 1772
Sadly there was no will, but the administration of his estate was granted to his widow Elizabeth Johnson who at that time was living at Horton.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6QWQ-4R7?i=101&cc=2353049
In case you aren't aware, pre 1858 probate records for the Diocese of Durham - which included Northumberland, are searchable here: http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/simple.php and results are linked through to images on Family Search.
Boo
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The lease reference of 2DE/1/1/1 is, I think, one of those used for the Delaval family papers. Hardly surprising as they owned all the land around that area.
I've spent many fascinating hours reading through those papers and would be happy to look at the lease if you need someone to do that.
Christine
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That is very kind of you. I would really appreciate you having a look
Would you think and I know that this is a very speculative question that if a Henry Johnson shows up in those papers, that appears to be my direct ancestor that he would have been born in a village close by or perhaps even on the farm owned by Delaval family?
Jim
Winnipeg Canada
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Speculative, as you say, but with such a common name I would certainly be looking for him closer to home than Anlwick, Bamburgh or Ovingham.
If he is a local lad then his baptism is likely to be in the parish church of Earsdon (Seaton Delaval being in that parish).
Christine
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That was a good call on the lease, Jomot, because it says -
“…30th day of April in the 25th year of the reign of our sovereign Lord George 2nd…..
Between Francis Blake Delaval of Seaton Delaval in the county of Northumberland Esquire on the one part and Roger Nixon of Howith in the county aforesaid and Henry Johnston of Bedlington in the county of Durham Yeomen on the other part”
Before you go to Durham looking for Henry you need to know that Bedlington is very firmly in Northumberland - just a few miles from Seaton Delaval - but that area (and two others in the county) belonged to Durham at that time. Guaranteed to confuse the unwary ;D
The rent was “ninety pounds of lawful money of Great Brittain (sic) same to be paid on two days of payment in every year”
I looked at the Rent Accounts and Stewards Disbursements 1753 - 1757 and his payments were made in May and November .
I also looked at the Rent Accounts for Seaton and Ford Estates 1761 - 1762. This book contained a page for each tenant. Interestingly Henry’s page had his name at the top but with an addition which said “now Elizabeth”. I’m thinking that a death/ burial record should be sought for Henry around this time. Also by 1762 the account appears to be in arrears by £45 - there being only three payments against 4 sums due.
Christine
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I cannot thank you enough Christine and Jomot
A huge break thorough in my surname line.
You are indeed right. I would of gone off to Durham records without blinking a eye. Being in Canada makes is even more difficult a I am not familiar with the local history back at that time.
At this time I am also "Assuming" that Elizabeth "may" be his wife although the one child I know of does not name any of his children Elizabeth
Thank you again Christine for researching the deed for me and giving me advice on what steps I should now take.
Best wishes from Winnipeg
Jim
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I had to shoot off to prepare for a meeting after that last post of mine but here is another bit which may answer your query on Elizabeth.
I had a very quick look at a book with some Bedlington records in and found two baptism entries for children of Henry - George in 1743 and Jane in 1745 children of Henry Johnson Farmer of Bedlington and Elizabeth his wife. The quality of the copying in this book was really bad but looking at the microfilm may be better as there is likely to be more children, looking at the dates.
Christine
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Great information there Christine.
I'm speculating somewhat, but the 1772 probate for Henry Johnson of Earsdon mentions Robert Brown, Block Maker of Tynemouth and there is a marriage in Earsdon in 1764 between a Robert Brown & Jane Johnson. The baptism of Jane Johnson in 1745 would put her at about 19, so old enough to be the bride perhaps?
There seems to be more than one couple named Robert & Jane Brown, but baptisms in Tynemouth include an Elizabeth in 1765 and a Henry in 1772. Henry's baptism on 20 Apr 1772 confirms Roberts occupation as Block Maker. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m6w/
ADDED: Marriage extract and marriage bond (2 pages) for Robert Brown & Jane Johnson. Jane is said to be of Earsdon and 21 or above. Witness was a William Johnson.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m6x/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m6y/
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When you get back to the 1700s it's all those little clues that build a picture and it does sound promising. I have a busy day ahead but will get back to this tonight.
Christine
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I had a look at NBI tonight and there is a burial for Henry Johnson in Earsdon on 12th December 1761. Could very well be our man :D
Elizabeth may be more confusing. There is one burial in Earsdon on 22nd December 1783 and another at Horton on 2nd October 1786. Boo says her address on the Administration bond was Horton so either could be her. I do know however that the actual burial record for Horton gives the abode as Bebside so it could be another Elizabeth :-\ . A look at the originals next week could be the answer.
Christine
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I checked the parish registers today and think that the Earsdon burials are the ones for Henry and Elizabeth -
"17 Dec. 1761 Henry Johnson of the Avenue Head buried"
"22 Dec. 1783 Elizabeth Johnson Widow of Long-Moor in the chapelry of Horton"
Christine
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Thank you so so much
I never thought I would know who Henrys wife was even if it is just her first name
You help is greatly appreciated.
Jim
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While I was at Woodhorn I also looked at the Bedlington PRs for other baptisms. The records are quite dirty and many pages have black areas which obscure the writing but this is the list I found. I know you already have the two Henrys, Jane and George. I didn’t see any earlier than Margaret but this indicates that any marriage will be 1729 or before.
19 Jan. 1729/30 Margaret daughter of Henry Johnson by his wife Elizabeth
28 Sept. 1734 John son of Henry Johnson, labourer, by his wife Elizabeth
4 Jan. 1738/9 Henry son of Henry Johnson, farmer, by his wife Elizabeth. Buried 25 Dec. 1739
23 Nov. 1740 Henry son of Henry Johnson, farmer, by his wife Elizabeth
21 July 1745 Jane daughter of Henry Johnson of Bedlington, farmer, and Elizabeth his wife
27 Sept 1747 George son of Henry Johnson of Bedlington, farmer, and Elizabeth his wife
Christine
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Thank you again Christine You keep making my day.
Perhaps one day the marriage of Henry to Elizabeth will fall out of the woodwork.
I do have a question regarding Elizabeths place of death. • Long-Moor, in, the, chapelry, of, Horton, Northumberland, England
Where exactly is that. I have now been given two locations and I found a old map that showed a Long-Moor in Northumberland as a very large farm.
Jim
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Could this be the marriage for Henry Johnson It is 10 miles from Earnsdon
Name: Elizabeth Johnson
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 1728
Marriage Place: Long Benton, Northumberland, England
Spouse: Henry Johnson
If it is, does it mean that both bride and grooms surname was Johnson?
Jim
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Hi Jim
Horton is just a few miles from Seaton Delaval - it's a neighbouring parish to Earsdon. I have never heard of Long Moor before - it's not on the Northumberland farms list at Woodhorn but I'm sure it's not a village or a township and I've not heard of a colliery of that name so a farm is the obvious choice.
As for the marriage at Longbenton - it's a good possibility. At least the date is close. Where did you find it? I can check the records next week though there is little information in marriage records from that time.
Christine
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Meant to include this link - it's the best website for learning about Northumberland parishes and all things genealogical.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL
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I got it from Ancestry Records No Image Text only collection
Name: Henry Johnson
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 3 Dec 1728
Marriage Place: Long Benton, Northumberland, England
Spouse: Elizabeth Johnson
Search Photos: Search for 'Long Benton, Northumberland, England' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Thanks for the link I have bookmarked it. It will help me greatly.
Jim
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I tried to look at the Longbenton marriage today in the hope that there might have been a mention of which parish Henry belonged to but the microfilm was in such a bad state (held together with tape) that it was impossible to read even though I knew I was on the right page. The marriage is definitely in the transcript but holds no more information than you already have.
I also used the transcripts to look for a potential baptism of Elizabeth and found one which fits nicely
Elizabeth daughter of William Johnson of Longbenton 6th January 1707/8
No mention of mother’s name but this is quite normal for the period. This Elizabeth would be the right age for the 1728 marriage.
There were also 6 other daughters - Phillis 13/6/1699, Maria 25/3/1701, Ellener 22/6/1703, Isabella 13/8/1705, Margaret 1/9/1712 and Ann 11/10/1715.
No sign of an appropriate marriage for William so his wife was probably from another parish and they would usually be married in her parish.
Christine
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Thank you again Christine
I have also replied to you in a private message
Jim
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Do you think this is Henry's wife Elizabeth. fathers William marriage.
William had the first child in 1699 and all the children including Elizabeth were born in Longbenton.
I got it from records on Ancestry. The one thing that makes me doubt it is, that their is no
Alice in the names of his seven children. All girls
Name: William Johnson
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 7 Oct 1697
Marriage Place: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Saint Nicholas Parish Reg and Nonconf
Spouse: Alice Rawling
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It's possible but I would exercise caution with a name like William Johnson. The problem is that achieving 'three pieces of good evidence' gets more difficult the further back you go.
I would stick this on a 'potential' list till you can corroborate it
Christine
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Thanks Christine
I need a slap on my hand as I was yielding to temptation there. ha
Actually my main goal is to find more about Henry Johnson and who his parents were but I know the odds on that are nil to none. Why couldnt he have a first name like Egbert.
JIm
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I had a quick look at the St. Nicholas marriage today. It says - Mr. William Johnson Merchant and Mrs. Alice Rawling. If he was a Newcastle merchant then he may be documented somewhere as a lot has been written about the Merchant Adventurers of Newcastle. He was obviously held in high regard as they used his title in the records.
Whether this helps or hinders linking him to your ancestors is anybody’s guess!
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Going back to Henry - you mentioned in a pm that there was a baptism for Henry Johnson in Bedlington so I looked at this today.
24 August 1701 Henry son of John Johnson Farmer and Jane his wife of Westsligburn.
Westsligburn (also written as Westslickburn) is known as West Sleekburn today and was part of Bedlington parish. The land was owned by the Bishopric of Durham (which is why it was considered to be part of County Durham at the time) and John would likely be a farmer on their land.
I think this Henry looks good for being yours because of the farming background.
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That is right in the correct area. I would think there is a very strong possiblity. I am going to add this one with a note and a * Its very exciting to me. When my wife and I are in Sunderland next year would you like to meet for lunch We will likely be staying in Newcastle Its next June.
As to William I dont think its mine. First off as you have noted. Mine were all farmers or farm laborers that we (I) know of. Merchants never come into the picture until my great grandfathers brother in Sunderland and thats the 1890s.
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I had a quick look at the St. Nicholas marriage today. It says - Mr. William Johnson Merchant and Mrs. Alice Rawling. If he was a Newcastle merchant then he may be documented somewhere as a lot has been written about the Merchant Adventurers of Newcastle. He was obviously held in high regard as they used his title in the records.
Whether this helps or hinders linking him to your ancestors is anybody’s guess!
Going back to post 22, where Christine found a possible baptism for Elizabeth and 6 other daughters - Phillis, Maria , Ellener , Isabella , Margaret and Ann, there is a will for a William Johnson which mentions daughters of the same names.
William JOHNSON, yeoman, of Long-Benton in the County of Northumberland
Date of probate: 29 April 1728
A quick scan though the registered copy shows that his wife was called Margaret, she obviously survived him as she is named as his widow on the will bond.
Boo
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oops! Sorry, I forgot to add in the links to the images
original will ( and codicil)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1L3-WS7?cc=2358715
registered copy will (and codicil)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6XSQ-1ZY?i=439&cc=2365059
Useful to look at both if there are parts you find difficult to decipher.
will bond
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67MS-X6Q?i=39&cc=2353049
Boo
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Thank you so much. That will gave me information on his daughters marriages among other things. It is really appreciated.
Jim
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Back to Henry Johnson who we now know was born 1701 Bedlington and his parents were John Johnson and Jane (marriage unknown)
I looked at the records I could find for Bedlington on the FHs and found this Henry was born 1701 and i found children born up to 1719 all Bedlington and parents John Johnson mother Jane
Thought I was doing good and then I got a red herring thrown in the works. I found these two baptisms in Bedlington Catherine Johnson 1689 and Mary Johnson 1693 Parents John Johnson and Jane.
Do you think the parents John Johnson and Jane of the two born in the the 1680/90 are the same John and Jane who had Henry in 1701 and their last child in 1719.
Jim
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You'd need to check the baptism records to see whether an occupation was listed for John on the two earlier baptisms and also look for marriages - there might be two though it could still be the same John with two different wives!
Also look for wills - Boo has proved how useful they can be.
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Also look for wills - Boo has proved how useful they can be.
I love old wills, they give great clues to help us with family history :-)
As an aside Jim, you mentioned in a PM that you don't have an account for Family Search.
A free account on Family Search asks for a d.o.b., name and email address. That's all. You are not obliged to create a tree on there ( I don't have an online tree with them or any of the commercial sites)
Which is less personal info than a sub to one of the commercial genealogy sites require, (as they also want a residence address and your bank/credit card details) yet in return the LDS share a LOT of info for free.
Though I understand that some are wary of giving out more details on the net, on balance I think an LDS account is very good.
Boo
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I did find Bedlington Deaths for John and Jane Johnson to show I am still trying :0
However I dont think they help much as which one belongs to who.
A Jane Johnson died in Bedlington inn1701, 1741 and 1771
A John Johnson died in Bedlington in 1721, 1733, 1735, 1752 and 1774
If there is only one Jane then 1741 would likely be the date for her.
If there is only one John 1721 1733 and 1735 are not out of the question at all
Jim
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I checked the Bedlington records today for John and Jane.
Marriages -
Nov. 15 1688 ‘John Johnson of West Sligburn to Jane Hunter of Camboise both of the towne and p. of Bedlington’
I would say these are the parents of the two girls baptised 1689 and 1693
Then there’s
June 9 1698 ‘John Johnson and Jane Bullock of West Sligburn’
These two are going to be the parents of Henry and his siblings
There was no sign of a burial for anyone called Jane Johnson from 1692 to 1698 so I think we can assume that these two couples are separate entities.
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Looking further back in the Bedlington records there is a baptism on 12 June 1662 of John son of Henerey and Barbary Johnson. Location given as Westsligbourne.
Given the birth year he could be either John but with his father’s name being Henry (Henerey!) this could well be your Henry’s father and his father’s name would support this.
Either way sadly this is as far as you are likely to be able to take your Johnson family as Bedlington records go back no further than 1653.
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What can I say to thank everyone who has helped me on this wonderful board.
I think you know how I feel and I tried to a lot by myself but I will honestly say I never ever
in my wildest dreams thought I would get my Johnson surname back to where you managed.
c-side tickety and the others who went out of their way putting up with my questions and totally wrong rationales I came to, thank you so much.
When my wife and I come to the UK next year on our dream trip I know the Bedlington area will now be on our itinerary.
Jim