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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Kezzza on Tuesday 12 June 18 09:50 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to find information on Frederick John Lucking, in particular where he died.
According to details of widower's 2nd marriage records he died in 1891 however I am not sure if he died in England or in Australia.
He had a child that was born in 1887 in Newtown, New South Wales so I would have assumed he died in Australia however I am unable to find any record for him.
Can anyone give me any advice in how I can find this information please?
TIA
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Do you have anymore information such as his place and date of bityh, marriage details and son's name?
Mark
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Do you have anymore information such as his place and date of bityh, marriage details and son's name?
Mark
Hi Mark,
Unfortunately I do not having anything about his birth.
He got married in Jun 1875 • West Ham, Essex, England to Mary Louisa Betts (1858–1944).
They had 6 children.
Martha Hannah Lucking
1878–1930
Maude Frederica Lucking
1882–1941
Alfred James Lucking
1883–1919
Thomas Henry Boik Lucking
1887–1950
Lucking
no dates
Lucking
no dates
Thomas Henry Boik was born in NSW, The others were born in England. However I am not sure about the 2 with no dates but there isn't any record of births for them in NSW so I am assuming they were born in England too.
I hope that all makes sense.
Kez
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June 1875 West Ham 4a 87
Betts, Mary Louisa
Lucking, John Frederick
Supposed to be at St Mark Victoria Docks, according to the Church Marriage Finder
Baptism of Martha Hannah at Holy Trinity Canning Town in 1879
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XK8T-WG3
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Name: Thomas H Boik
Birth Date: 1887
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1887
Registration Place: Newtown, New South Wales, Australia
Father: Thomas H Boik
Mother: Mary L
Registration Number: 9197
I'm a little confused how this child could be the son of Frederick Lucking?
Stephanie from Australia
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The birth registration for an Alfred James Lucking in 1883 (England) does not have mmn Betts :-\
LUCKING, ALFRED JAMES mothers maiden name PUMFRETT
GRO Reference 1883 December Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 134
ADDED I can't see any other Lucking / Betts births in England after Maude
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June 1875 West Ham 4a 87
Betts, Mary Louisa
Lucking, John Frederick
Supposed to be at St Mark Victoria Docks, according to the Church Marriage Finder
Baptism of Martha Hannah at Holy Trinity Canning Town in 1879
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XK8T-WG3
Oh fantastic thank you for the info
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Name: Thomas H Boik
Birth Date: 1887
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1887
Registration Place: Newtown, New South Wales, Australia
Father: Thomas H Boik
Mother: Mary L
Registration Number: 9197
I'm a little confused how this child could be the son of Frederick Lucking?
Stephanie from Australia
Yes it is confusing! We believe that this is a mistake. As on his marriage cert his last name is Lucking not Boik. It also has Frederick as his father on the cert
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The birth registration for an Alfred James Lucking in 1883 (England) does not have mmn Betts :-\
LUCKING, ALFRED JAMES mothers maiden name PUMFRETT
GRO Reference 1883 December Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 134
ADDED I can't see any other Lucking / Betts births in England after Maude
Hi
I thought that was the correct person. How did you find the mother’s maiden name?
Thanks
Kez
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Mothers maiden name is available on the GRO index, you just need to register
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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Mothers maiden name is available on the GRO index, you just need to register
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Thank you I had no idea about this I just use the index
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It also has ages at death for those early ones not available on freebmd
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So just to throw something else in the mix, the death record for Mary Louisa Smithwick (nee Betts, nee Lucking) has her death in Brunswick, Victoria 1944 with the identical entry as Mary Louisa Gunston .Elec rolls have her in 1931 living with Wm Gunston as Mary Louisa Gunston.
Trove nla has death notice" 19/5/1941 for Maude TONG age 58 dau of Louisa Gunston and stepdau of Wm Gunston and loving sister of Thomas BOIK.
Can't find deaths for the first 2 husbands.
Stephanie from Australia
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Re Thomas Boik -
From NSW Police Gazette 1889 :
Sydney : Warrant has been issued by the Central Police Bench for the arrest of Thomas Henry Boik, charged that he , by his violent conduct caused , Louisa Lucking to be apprehensive of violence to her person. He is 30 years of age , 5ft 9ins and of stout build.
There is a Thomas Boik , born about 1854 , died 1898 Victoria , reg. 11464. There is an Inquest file on this man, who died in the Asylum. https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:Q24H-Y6QK.
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The birth registration for an Alfred James Lucking in 1883 (England) does not have mmn Betts :-\
LUCKING, ALFRED JAMES mothers maiden name PUMFRETT
GRO Reference 1883 December Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 134
ADDED I can't see any other Lucking / Betts births in England after Maude
Hey
So you are correct this is the wrong person - but I do know there is a James (Jim) as a son but it is weird he changed his last name from Lucking to Williamson.
Here is the link to the newspaper I found the info in. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203711346?searchTerm=Williamson%20(Lucking)%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=
If that doesn't work if you type in Williams on(Lucking) into Trove it will come up.
I have no idea where the Williamson comes from or why he changed it
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Hey
So you are correct this is the wrong person - but I do know there is a James (Jim) as a son but it is weird he changed his last name from Lucking to Williamson.
Here is the link to the newspaper I found the info in. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203711346?searchTerm=Williamson%20(Lucking)%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=
If that doesn't work if you type in Williams on(Lucking) into Trove it will come up.
I have no idea where the Williamson comes from or why he changed it
Death for the above is registered as James Williamson b 1885 died South Melbourne 1919;
Reg. Victoria 8318
Parents : James Williamson and Mary Louisa Betts.
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Re Thomas Boik -
From NSW Police Gazette 1889 :
Sydney : Warrant has been issued by the Central Police Bench for the arrest of Thomas Henry Boik, charged that he , by his violent conduct caused , Louisa Lucking to be apprehensive of violence to her person. He is 30 years of age , 5ft 9ins and of stout build.
There is a Thomas Boik , born about 1854 , died 1898 Victoria , reg. 11464. There is an Inquest file on this man, who died in the Asylum. https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:Q24H-Y6QK.
Hi Christine,
Thank you for the info.
With the police gazette, I am a bit confused as this Thomas Henry Boik would have to be born in around 1859 at the time of this and Thomas Henry Boik Lucking was already dead in 1950. It could possibly be a child but I haven't been able to piece it together yet.
I can not work out the asylum one either again it could of been a grandchild or some other relation maybe. ???
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Thomas ( Henry ) Boik born about 1859 was arrested in 1890 for threatening Louisa Lucking.
Thomas Boik born about 1854 died in the Asylum in 1898.
I suggest these two records refer to the same man.
Thomas Henry Boik who died in 1950 was born about 1888. Parents given in the death registration are Henry Thomas Boik and Mary Louisa Betts. This suggests to me that Thomas born 1854/59, who died in 1898, was the father of Thomas Henry Boik born 1888 and died 1950.
Hope that makes sense ? ;D
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Hey
So you are correct this is the wrong person - but I do know there is a James (Jim) as a son but it is weird he changed his last name from Lucking to Williamson.
Here is the link to the newspaper I found the info in. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203711346?searchTerm=Williamson%20(Lucking)%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=
If that doesn't work if you type in Williams on(Lucking) into Trove it will come up.
I have no idea where the Williamson comes from or why he changed it
Death for the above is registered as James Williamson b 1885 died South Melbourne 1919;
Reg. Victoria 8318
Parents : James Williamson and Mary Louisa Betts.
I think I MAY have James Williamson's birth :
James WILLIAMSON J q 1884 West Ham 04A p148 Mother's maiden name BETTS.
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Thomas ( Henry ) Boik born about 1859 was arrested in 1890 for threatening Louisa Lucking.
Thomas Boik born about 1854 died in the Asylum in 1898.
I suggest these two records refer to the same man.
Thomas Henry Boik who died in 1950 was born about 1888. Parents given in the death registration are Henry Thomas Boik and Mary Louisa Betts. This suggests to me that Thomas born 1854/59, who died in 1898, was the father of Thomas Henry Boik born 1888 and died 1950.
Hope that makes sense ? ;D
I orinally thought that Thomas Henry Boik was the father but the father of Thomas Henry Boik was Frederick Lucking I believe there is a mistake on the death record.
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Ohhh that does sound promising haha. It’s a shame it doesn’t have the fathers name on it too!
Hey
So you are correct this is the wrong person - but I do know there is a James (Jim) as a son but it is weird he changed his last name from Lucking to Williamson.
Here is the link to the newspaper I found the info in. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203711346?searchTerm=Williamson%20(Lucking)%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=
If that doesn't work if you type in Williams on(Lucking) into Trove it will come up.
I have no idea where the Williamson comes from or why he changed it
Death for the above is registered as James Williamson b 1885 died South Melbourne 1919;
Reg. Victoria 8318
Parents : James Williamson and Mary Louisa Betts.
I think I MAY have James Williamson's birth :
James WILLIAMSON J q 1884 West Ham 04A p148 Mother's maiden name BETTS.
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and the mystery continues...
So I decided to bite the bullet and pay for May Louisa Betts's death certificate.
It starts the she was married twice.
the first marriage was to Thomas Henry Boik in London, England when she was 26 years old (around 1884) and the issue were
Thomas Henry, aged 53 (or it could be 58)
Martha, deceased
Maud, deceased
James, decreased.
Second Marriage
East Melbourne, Victoria
36 years old
John Joseph Smithwick
Issue - not any
I still believe that Martha and Maud's father is Frederick John Lucking
if looking at the dates it is likely that Thomas Henry Boik (Lucking) is the son of Thomas Henry Boik. However this is not what it says on the his Marriage Certificate.
and James's father is James Williamson.
Now I just need to prove this!
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This announcement of James Williamson's death in 1919 states " dearly beloved husband of Hilda, and loving father of Jack , eldest son of Mr J Smithwick , and loving brother of Mrs Moore , Mrs Tong and Thomas Lucking ":
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m6s/
James Williamson b 1884 married Hilda Marie Clarice Taylor 6 Nov 1916 St Pauls Church , Port Pirie.
The transcript gives his father as Frederick Williamson.
The information regarding parents in many of these records seems rather unreliable !
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This announcement of James Williamson's death in 1919 states " dearly beloved husband of Hilda, and loving father of Jack , eldest son of Mr J Smithwick , and loving brother of Mrs Moore , Mrs Tong and Thomas Lucking ":
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m6s/
James Williamson b 1884 married Hilda Marie Clarice Taylor 6 Nov 1916 St Pauls Church , Port Pirie.
The transcript gives his father as Frederick Williamson.
The information regarding parents in many of these records seems rather unreliable !
Thanks for the info.
I don't think anyone in that family knows who their father is!
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It is getting very confusing.
Did they arrive in Australia in 1885 on the S.S. Potosi
James Williamson 35 Storekeeper (dittoed from entry above)
Mary L Williamson 27
Martha A Williamson 6
Maud Williamson 3
Jane Williamson 1
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It is getting very confusing.
Did they arrive in Australia in 1885 on the Potosi
James Williamson 35 Storekeeper (dittoed from entry above)
Mary L Williamson 27
Martha A Williamson 6
Maud Williamson 3
Jane Williamson 1
Hmmm according to the death cert she got married to Boik and that was after she had James Williamson. However she changed her name so many times it might be possibly. I will check it out thank you :)
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Yes, I was just adding that Jane, 1, would probably have to be an error for James!
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Yes, I was just adding that Jane, 1, would probably have to be an error for James!
Yeah that could be a possibility.
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It is getting very confusing.
Did they arrive in Australia in 1885 on the S.S. Potosi
James Williamson 35 Storekeeper (dittoed from entry above)
Mary L Williamson 27
Martha A Williamson 6
Maud Williamson 3
Jane Williamson 1
Hey,
Do you remember what website you find this one?
TIA
Kez
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Hi
Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923
25/7/1885
I got that from ancestry.
John
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Hi
Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923
25/7/1885
I got that from ancestry.
John
Thanks John :)