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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: aggiebagwash on Friday 15 June 18 20:46 BST (UK)
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Can anyone work out for me if these are the same family because I'm confused now. I know the 1911 is correct and all the children were born to Christopher McGrath and Mary Ann nee Deveraux.
On the 1911 census the following family give these details.
Christopher McGrath age 60 Labourer born Tipperary
Mary Ann 49 "
Catherine 28 dau Shirt Maker "
Ellen 23 dau Domestic Servant "
John 22 son Bricklayer "
Nora 19 dau Bookbinder "
Walter 18 son Bricklayer "
Christopher 16 son Errand boy born Manchester.
Living at 84 Blacklock Street, Bradford, Manchester.
Mary Ann says she's had 9 children and none have died.
I then looked for the family on the 1901 census and couldn't find Christopher or Mary Ann so I looked for their younger children and the only link that I found was-
William McGrath age 48 no occupation born Tipperary
Mary A 43 "
Willie 23 son a brickfitter "
Margaret 18 dau shirt machinist. "
Ellen 16 dau. "
John 14 son labourer. "
Norah 12 dau. "
Walter 10 son. "
Christopher 7 son. born Manchester
Living at 110 Westmoreland Street, Harperhey, Manchester.
There is only one Christopher McGrath born circa 1893 in Lancashire.
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That does seem quite a coincidence in names of the youngest 5 siblings .professions like shirt makers and bricklayers were quite common .
Did you cross reference and look for the Williams in 1911....and look for other Mcgarth s in same Street
1 hypothesis :
Mary A living with her brother in law in 1901 ...so children hers but not his .though her age is out too.
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Possible marriage?
Christopher McGrath and Mary Ann Devereux - his father is William
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11266/8131443.pdf
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William born 1876
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03122/2145035.pdf
Catherine born 1877
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02995/2097630.pdf
Looks good. Hopefully you can verify other names.
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William and Mary Ann McGrath aren't on the 1911 census with or without children.
It's the fact that there's only one Christopher McGrath born in 1893 on both censuses that makes me think it's the same family.
Thank you so much for the records they are very useful.
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Christopher's birth registration
MCGRATH, CHRISTOPHER DEVEREUX
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 304
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So there is only one Christopher McGrath born in 1893 in Manchester.
I'm wondering if one of the children gave the enumerator the details and just got confused. What I'm trying to work out is Margaret really Catherine or was there another sister called Margaret and they've forgotten to add Catherine.
Oh! the joy of genealogy
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The ages don’t match very well, do they?
You could go through births and any deaths in Irish Genealogy.
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There are several William Mcgarth to be found in newspaper articles
Preston herald 1913 aged 37 sent down for a month for maintenance payments
A young Billy ..age not given ... stealing lead piping in 1909
And others being victims of crime /drunken cases.or soldiers
I don't have subs to Genes Reunited to look up the full articles for more details
.
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I agree heywood that's why I wasn't sure if it was the same family but ages are often years out if someone other than the parents give the details.
I seem to have a problem with Irish genealogy no matter what name I am looking for it always comes up with 'no records found' I must be doing something wrong. I'd looked for all the names earlier in the evening. The links you sent were really easy to download but when I went back to check them out of curiosity I got the same response 'no records found'.
bridgidmac thank you I'll have a look at the newspapers it looks interesting.
The only trouble with looking at newspapers is I end up reading the whole paper at times.
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That’s odd.
You have to prove you are not a robot ::) to get to the records and ‘sign in’ but you should be able to access.
If I just enter McGrath and Callan it brings up 509 records -then you can modify with years and type of record.
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Sorry - I don’t know how to make attachment smaller :o
I have removed it now - I think you know what to do now Aggie :)
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Thanks I'll give it another go. I didn't realise that you had to register.
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It’s not a registration - just a sign in :) just follow the steps- it is really useful.
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I couldn't prove I wasn't a robot and open those files .good luck ...do keep posting your finds ..
Hope you can work out if Catherine and Margaret shirtmakers are one and the same. And if William and Christopher seniors are brothers or same man .
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:)
Sometimes you don’t have to do the puzzles and other times it takes several attempts.
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Heywood admit it you're Harry Potter in disguise. :D
Three of us spent an hour earlier trying to access the records you found and none of us got anywhere close. I even tried using McGrath and Callan like you suggested and got the same robotic reply 'no records found'. You must be a magician to get the response you did.
I've gone through the backdoor this time. On the marriage register I noticed that Mary Ann's surname Connor/s was crossed out and Devereaux written above it. This suggested that Mary Ann had been brought up under the name Connor and not Devereaux for some reason. Also in the border there's a note at the side of Michael's name saying living or dead unknown.
I eventually found her Baptism on the 25th August 1857. Parents Michael Devereaux and Catherine Connor and that's why she used Connor.
I then spent hours trawling through the marriage records and eventually found that Michael and Catherine married on the 6th September 1857 two weeks after the baptism. I think that Michael did a runner when Mary Ann was a child.
All good fun eh!
I'll access those records somehow I won't be beaten.
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It is a favourite sight :o
Are you choosing civil records - it is not church records, even though this link shows church records?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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I've tried both. I'll try again. Watch this space. ::)
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Oh dearie me. I don’t know what advise. I might be missing something in my explanation but I can’t think what.
Sometimes, I know that the site is problematical but it has been fine in these searches.
Good luck.
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Heywood and Bridgidmac I've worked it out that they are the same families on the censuses. I managed to find the Bishop's Transcripts for Mullinahone and all the children were born to Christopher and Mary Ann.
On the 1911 census Mary Ann says she's had 9 children and all are still alive. There are 6 children on the census and the Baptisms I found show that there were 3 other children William born 1874, Mary born 1876 and Margaret born in 1880. William and Margaret are on the 1901 census.
I know Christopher's age is way out on the censuses because I found his baptism in 1843. His death record in the 2nd quarter 1918 gives his age as 75 which makes his birth year 1843.
Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it.
I won't give up trying to find the pages you found Heywood I'll access them somehow I'm a stubborn old goat. :)
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Good news then.
Just keep practising with the records - so useful. ;)