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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Rebecca Totten on Sunday 17 June 18 17:24 BST (UK)
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I have had to seek help on this as i have got myself into a confused rut ??? So i will try to explain what i have as best i can.
Im trying to find the Father of my 2nd Great Grandfather. My 2nd Great Grandfather was William Henry Squires, this i know as it is listed on my great grandfathers marriage record.
Then finding the correct marriage record for William Henry Squires states that HIS fathers name was George Henry Squires (The one im tring to find). William served in WW1 for a short service and it states on there that he was born in Birmingham, Warwickshire abt 1883, it lists him as 31yrs and 8 days. Calculating back this takes the date to AUG 18 1883.
I went onto the GRO to search and found only one William Henry Squires born in Birmingham in 1883, Mothers maiden name Piesley. So i thought yes this must be him so i ordered the certificate and was disappointed and confused with the birth certificate.
Birthdate is March 1883. Father: William Squires. Mother: Mary Jane Squires formerly Pielsey
As you can see i was confused about the fathers name being Wiliiam and not George.
So i have been doing alot of research and can't find any Mary Jane Piesley ??? or any Piesley marrying a George Henry Squires or William Squires.
If anyone could help me with trying to figure this out it would be very much appreciated. ;D
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Are you sure you have the correct marriage details for William Henry Squires.
Do you have you Great Grandfathers birth certificate, as this will give his mothers name then you should be able to trace/confirm a marriage for his Mother to William Henry Squires - which should then show Williams fathers name.
I got a bit confused so hope I've understood.
Fay
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Hi the 1883 birth was registered June qtr 1883 and died aged 1 1884 Birmingham.
Keyboard86
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Are you sure you have the correct marriage details for William Henry Squires.
Do you have you Great Grandfathers birth certificate, as this will give his mothers name then you should be able to trace/confirm a marriage for his Mother to William Henry Squires - which should then show Williams fathers name.
I got a bit confused so hope I've understood.
Fay
Sorry i did try to explain as best i could. Yes i do have the birth certificate for my Great Grandad:
Henry Leonard Squires
Father: William Henry Squires
Mother: Ann Squires Formerly: Hill
Yes i have the correct marriage which was 1909 In Oxford, Williams father listed as George Henry Squires - Furniture Dealer
I have tried search Occupation records with furniture dealer but not got anything. Do you think Furniture Dealer could be classed as Carpenter?
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On the 1901 census there is a George Squires living in Holyhead Rd, Handsworth, Staffs (but now classed as Birmingham) - occupation carpenter, with wife Catherine and daughter Mary and 2 sons - George aged 20 and William aged 17 which would be around the right age.
Fay
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William Squires born 1883 West Bromwich mmn Garle
Marriage 1875 Stourbridge - Catherine Garle married George Squires (or Frederick Robbins)
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There is a marriage certificate on Ancestry March 1875 for George Squires and Catherine Garle, Christ Church, Quinton. His occupation is listed as Carpenter - Father Zachariah Squires but i can't read occupation.
They were living at ?Warley, Salop.
1871 census shows George with his father Zacharia living in Somerset.
Fay
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Warley is part of Oldbury now and in the West Midlands - It's near West Bromwich and not far from Stourbridge see above 18.23.
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Not sure if this helps any, but his attestation states that he previously served with the M M Rifles (South Africa)
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On the 1901 census there is a George Squires living in Holyhead Rd, Handsworth, Staffs (but now classed as Birmingham) - occupation carpenter, with wife Catherine and daughter Mary and 2 sons - George aged 20 and William aged 17 which would be around the right age.
Fay
Hi Fay i have seen that Census before and kept it in mind due to it being Handsworth, but was putting me of as there is no ''Henry'' in either George Squires or William Squires which was making me unsure.
There is a marriage certificate on Ancestry March 1875 for George Squires and Catherine Garle, Christ Church, Quinton. His occupation is listed as Carpenter - Father Zachariah Squires but i can't read occupation.
They were living at ?Warley, Salop.
1871 census shows George with his father Zacharia living in Somerset.
Fay
I have also seen this aswell.
Not sure if this helps any, but his attestation states that he previously served with the M M Rifles (South Africa)
Hi, i did see that but could not make out what it said. How would i go about looking for service records? I cant seem to find anything for M M Rifles
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Do you know where William and Ann were in 1911? I note from the attestation in 1914 that they had a three year old son called William. The only William I can see born to a Squires mmn Hill is a William Frederick born June qutr 1911 in Reading. In the 1911 census in Reading there is a William Hy Squires and Wife Ann who have been married a year and have no children. Only problem is he is age 49 and says he was born in Nottingham. She is 25.
May be a complete red herring.
Isobel
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I'm sorry, I don't know how to find anything about the MM Rifles reference - perhaps someone on the military boards can offer more help.
Going back to the family living in Holyhead Rd, Handsworth, there is a military record for George Squires born c1881, Smethurst, Birmingham, and he served in South Africa in 1902. Next of kin confirmed as George & Kate, 98 Holyhead Rd, Handsworth. Unfortunately no other family is mentioned.
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There are several trees on Ancestry for George Squires and Catherine Garle which show son William marrying Emma Powell in 1907 and dying in 1934.
Isobel
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Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1883, and the marriage certificate, 1909.
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Do you know where William and Ann were in 1911? I note from the attestation in 1914 that they had a three year old son called William. The only William I can see born to a Squires mmn Hill is a William Frederick born June qutr 1911 in Reading. In the 1911 census in Reading there is a William Hy Squires and Wife Ann who have been married a year and have no children. Only problem is he is age 49 and says he was born in Nottingham. She is 25.
May be a complete red herring.
Isobel
Yes that is the same one i have only been able to find but like you said the Birthplace and Williams age is wrong. Unless it was wrote down wrong. Nottingham could be Birmingham ???
I'm sorry, I don't know how to find anything about the MM Rifles reference - perhaps someone on the military boards can offer more help.
Going back to the family living in Holyhead Rd, Handsworth, there is a military record for George Squires born c1881, Smethurst, Birmingham, and he served in South Africa in 1902. Next of kin confirmed as George & Kate, 98 Holyhead Rd, Handsworth. Unfortunately no other family is mentioned.
Hmm i will look into that. I will also post about where to find service records for MM Rifles. Thank you :)
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Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1883, and the marriage certificate, 1909.
Birth certificate i have is the wrong person :( so wont be of any use.
Marriage Certificate Details of 1909.
William Henry Squires. Birth: abt 1884. Marriage place: Oxford
Father: George Henry Squires. Profession: Furniture Dealer
Spouse: Ann Hill. Birth: Abt 1886
Father: John Hill. Profession: Farm Labourer
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Previous post on this family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765340.0
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It may help us if you can tell us how you have got to this gt gt grandfather.
Who was your grandfather and who did he marry and when etc .....
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There is a report in the Portsmouth Evening News 14 July 1914 about William Henry Squires aged 38 charged with neglecting his wife & children. The children are named as William aged 3 and Henry Leonard 3 months, with the address being Highbury Street, Portsmouth - the same as Henry Leonard's birth certificate.
According to the report, William Henry was a doorkeeper at various travelling shows and had been apprehended in London. An inspector for the Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children was involved and testified that William Henry had 'systematically neglected his wife and children', although his wife refused to testify against him.
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There is also a report in the Portsmouth Evening News of 10 Feb 1913 about the suicide of Walter Edward Waters. Report states that details of the discovery were given by William Henry Squires of 60 Highbury Street.
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There is a report in the Portsmouth Evening News 14 July 1914 about William Henry Squires aged 38 charged with neglecting his wife & children. The children are named as William aged 3 and Henry Leonard 3 months, with the address being Highbury Street, Portsmouth - the same as Henry Leonard's birth certificate.
According to the report, William Henry was a doorkeeper at various travelling shows and had been apprehended in London. An inspector for the Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children was involved and testified that William Henry had 'systematically neglected his wife and children', although his wife refused to testify against him.
Wow this is very interesting! where did you find this?
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Its on the British Newspaper Archive. Sounds like Ann had quite a hard time of it & had to support the children on her own, but was defending William Henry saying he sent money when he could.
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There is a report in the Portsmouth Evening News 14 July 1914 about William Henry Squires aged 38 charged with neglecting his wife & children. The children are named as William aged 3 and Henry Leonard 3 months, with the address being Highbury Street, Portsmouth - the same as Henry Leonard's birth certificate.
According to the report, William Henry was a doorkeeper at various travelling shows and had been apprehended in London. An inspector for the Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children was involved and testified that William Henry had 'systematically neglected his wife and children', although his wife refused to testify against him.
Seems his age is a bit fluid!
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Not sure if this helps any, but his attestation states that he previously served with the M M Rifles (South Africa)
Not sure if this is the same person but there is a reference to a William Henry Squires in the Western Daily Press (7 June 1902) regarding the Devonshires and the Transvaal War. Don't have a sub for BNA so cant read the full article.
Added: In a massive leap the Mauser Model Rifle (MM Rifles?) was the main rifle used by the Boers in the 2nd Boer War. Have no idea how that would fit with being a soldier and it may be me just adding 2+2 and making it 5!!!)
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Not sure if this is the same person but there is a reference to a William Henry Squires in the Western Daily Press (7 June 1902) regarding the Devonshires and the Transvaal War. Don't have a sub for BNA so cant read the full article.
The article is about the Transvaal War Fund and mentions disbursements to 15 cases dependent on the sick & wounded fund, including Pte William Henry Squires, Devonshires, on Transvaal telegraph lines for more than 2 years. Time served man.
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The 1914 newspaper article gives a birth of around 1876 so these entries from the Portsmouth Workhouse Register may or may not be relevant, given how fluid his age is!
13 Jan 1900 William Squires born 1878 admitted from Portsea. Discharged same day
12 Mar 1906 William Squire born 1879 admitted from Portsmouth. Discharged 17 March.
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I think those Portsmouth Workhouse records can probably be ruled out, but the 1911 census entry for Reading is definitely of interest as a William Frederick Squires was baptised 28 May 1911 at St Agnes, Reading, son of William Henry Squires & Annie, a Hawker of 2 Martin Court, Reading - same address as the census & matching with the 1911 birth record with the mmn Hill.
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Its on the British Newspaper Archive. Sounds like Ann had quite a hard time of it & had to support the children on her own, but was defending William Henry saying he sent money when he could.
Thank you i found the Articles, shame you have to pay to view old records. They could do with being on Ancestry.
There is a report in the Portsmouth Evening News 14 July 1914 about William Henry Squires aged 38 charged with neglecting his wife & children. The children are named as William aged 3 and Henry Leonard 3 months, with the address being Highbury Street, Portsmouth - the same as Henry Leonard's birth certificate.
According to the report, William Henry was a doorkeeper at various travelling shows and had been apprehended in London. An inspector for the Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children was involved and testified that William Henry had 'systematically neglected his wife and children', although his wife refused to testify against him.
Seems his age is a bit fluid!
Yes it does!
I think those Portsmouth Workhouse records can probably be ruled out, but the 1911 census entry for Reading is definitely of interest as a William Frederick Squires was baptised 28 May 1911 at St Agnes, Reading, son of William Henry Squires & Annie, a Hawker of 2 Martin Court, Reading - same address as the census & matching with the 1911 birth record with the mmn Hill.
Where did you find the baptism record? I might buy the birth certificate as i am tempted.
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The baptism is on Find my Past but is a transcription only.
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The baptism is on Find my Past but is a transcription only.
Ahh i see. Im using Ancestry and cant find the Baptism record on there.
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Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1883, and the marriage certificate, 1909.
Birth certificate i have is the wrong person :( so wont be of any use.
Marriage Certificate Details of 1909.
William Henry Squires. Birth: abt 1884. Marriage place: Oxford
Father: George Henry Squires. Profession: Furniture Dealer
Spouse: Ann Hill. Birth: Abt 1886
Father: John Hill. Profession: Farm Labourer
Does the marriage certificate say what William Henry’s occupation was?
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Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1883, and the marriage certificate, 1909.
Birth certificate i have is the wrong person :( so wont be of any use.
Marriage Certificate Details of 1909.
William Henry Squires. Birth: abt 1884. Marriage place: Oxford
Father: George Henry Squires. Profession: Furniture Dealer
Spouse: Ann Hill. Birth: Abt 1886
Father: John Hill. Profession: Farm Labourer
Does the marriage certificate say what William Henry’s occupation was?
It states he was a Labourer
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I had a thought on the M M Rifles - it could be Metropolitan Mounted Rifles. I can't find any reference to William Henry, but to be honest I'm beginning to wonder whether that was even his true name!
24th Battalion (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles), raised 30 Mar. 1901 in London; perpetuated 24 Aug. 1901 by 2nd County of London Imperial Yeomanry.
94th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
95th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
96th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
97th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m8d/
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I had a thought on the M M Rifles - it could be Metropolitan Mounted Rifles. I can't find any reference to William Henry, but to be honest I'm beginning to wonder whether that was even his true name!
24th Battalion (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles), raised 30 Mar. 1901 in London; perpetuated 24 Aug. 1901 by 2nd County of London Imperial Yeomanry.
94th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
95th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
96th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
97th (Metropolitan Mounted Rifles) Company, raised 1901
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m8d/
Yes it could mean that and i do hope that is not the case with his name :(