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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: venelow on Tuesday 19 June 18 00:25 BST (UK)

Title: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: venelow on Tuesday 19 June 18 00:25 BST (UK)
Hi Kent Rootschatters

I am not very familiar with Kent records and having difficulty locating a family with connections to the Naval Dockyard. Henry James Payne went to Canada about 1871. I know his father William married Mary Ann Shepherd in 1847 at St Mary's Portsea Hampshire and that Henry was born at Portsea in 1849.

I had assumed William was was from Hampshire and because the marriage record states he was a rigger / seaman he was difficult to find in the census. In 1861 young Henry (11 years ) is living with his uncle James Payne in Woolwich. Ancestry have transcribed the word nephew as stepson. I think Henry's mother died and since his father William is at sea he is living with Uncle James who is also a Rigger and works at the Dockyard.

In 1871 James Payne's household at 61 Henry St Woolwich contains his brother William born about 1806 at Woolwich. By this time Henry had gone to Canada.  There are also two sons William and Charles who were not in the household in 1861 and a nephew called William King who was also living with James and Maria in 1861. He may be a relative of Maria's.

William is still living with his brother James' and wife Maria (maiden name Lawrence) at Henry Street in 1881.

Both their marriage records state that their Father was called William.  I have seen the parish record of William and Mary Ann which also states his father was a Labourer. I have only seen an index on Family Search for James and Maria.

So I am now looking for the baptism records of William and James Payne born in Woolwich in order to find the parents. William and ?? In 1881 William is said to be 72 and James 67. I have no idea who their mother was. But in James' household in 1861 there is also Sarah Cramp (or Crump?) who is 82 years old and born at Woolwich. She is unmarried and described as James' aunt. So that might be a clue. Though she could be an aunt by marriage.

If any one has knowledge of this family I would love to hear from them and also from anyone with information about Kent records on line. 

Thanks for reading. Sorry it's long but I am trying to give all the information I have managed to find so far.  I have found Mary Ann Sheppard in 1841 and 1851. Her father was George and she was born in Chichester, Sussex but that is for another board. Another place where online records are thin on the ground.

Venelow
Canada
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 19 June 18 09:09 BST (UK)
FreeREG has a baptism for William PAYNE on 28 Jun 1802 at St Alfege, Greenwich, born 12 May 1802. Parents William, a mariner, & Louisa.
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 19 June 18 09:38 BST (UK)
Also from freeREG

James PAYNE baptised 11 Mar 1810 at  St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich son of James & Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: venelow on Tuesday 19 June 18 17:47 BST (UK)
Thank you Bearkat.  So there may be a possibility that William was married twice.

Is freeReg my only hope for online Church Records for Woolwich / Greenwich?

Venelow
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 19 June 18 17:57 BST (UK)
There are a few good sites for seeing what records are available and where

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Greenwich_St_Alfege,_Kent_Genealogy
scroll down to resources & parish records.

http://forebears.co.uk/england/kent/greenwich
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: bearkat on Thursday 21 June 18 12:00 BST (UK)
So there may be a possibility that William was married twice.

These children had different fathers.

I posted them as they were baptised in the right time frame.
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: venelow on Friday 22 June 18 00:45 BST (UK)
OK  Bearkat I misread the information. Payne is a very ubiquitous name I fear.

That you for the other Kentish links.

Venelow
Canada
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 22 June 18 02:20 BST (UK)
William and Charles in 1861 are with an aunt Elizabeth Smith, widow, 50 born Woolwich, living in Woolwich.  I think their full names are William George BP. 1st Jan. 1854 Portsea and Charles John  born Dec.qtr.1855. 

Annette
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 22 June 18 02:44 BST (UK)
There's a William Payne BP. 14.6.1806 Woolwich and an Elizabeth Payne BP. 4.12.1808 Woolwich with parents William and Sarah.

Annette
Title: Re: Payne Family of Woolwich Kent
Post by: venelow on Friday 22 June 18 22:32 BST (UK)
Hi Annette7

Thank you for that information on Elizabeth Smith. Charles and William are both on the GRO Birth index and their mother's maiden name was Shepherd/Sheppard. I found Elizabeth Smith and her son Thomas (b, 1842) with her husband George William Smith in Woolwich in 1851. He was a Rigger in 1851 and a mariner when they married. The marriage record states Elizabeth was the daughter of a William Payne, Labr. For some reason, although their son was registered in 1842 with MMS Payne, they did not actually marry until 1844. He was a widower and she was a spinster.

Now I have three siblings I can search for the parents.
Thanks again to those who contributed to this thread.

Sincerely,
Venelow
Canada