RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: sw1 on Tuesday 19 June 18 16:48 BST (UK)
-
Looking for children of Murdo Macleod and Christina Campbell, and their parents.
They married 9 Jun 1840. Murdoch was from Pabbay and Christina was from Carinish.
A son, Donald, b abt 1838, married Margaret NICOL 26 Sep 1867 in Gamrie, Banffshire. He named his parents as Murdoch McLeod, fisherman and Marshallima Mcleod MS Campbell. (I have all his census details post-marriage.)
A daughter, Isabella born 27 Feb 1857 Scalpa [sic] named her parents as Murdoch Macleod, cottar and Christina Macleod, MS Campbell. Informant was Catherine Macleod, aunt, present at birth and who made her mark with a cross X.
(Who was Catherine Macleod, the aunt, and where does she fit in?)
Daughter Isabella was the second wife of Neil Macaskill, married 15 Jan 1891 Stornoway.
Parents named as Murdo Macleod, blacksmith and Christina Macleod MS Campbell, both deceased.
Isabella died 18 Aug 1939 in Stornoway and named her parents as she did on marriage.
I found a possibility for Murdo and Christina in Scalpay in 1851. Murdo was a farmer.
Murdo McLeod 43, Christina 37, Dond[sic] Donald 10, William 8, John 5 plus John McLeod 21, also marked as son b 1830 Harris. ED14/2/5
My problem is that I cannot pin down these other children.
And how can the John age 21, b 1830, be a son??
I have trawled various Hebridean websites, some of which are very useful - but more for eliminating various possibilities - and now I'm a bit stuck.
I think searching for Macleods in Harris and Lewis is a bit like looking for a Davy Jones in Wales! The words...wading and...treacle come to mind!!
Has anyone any thoughts?
Regards
Suzie
-
Suzie, if you have a marriage for Murdo and Christina in 1840, the earlier children likely to be from a first marriage perhaps?
Any luck finding them in 1841 census?
Monica :)
-
"Murdo Macleod and Christina Campbell, and their parents.
They married 9 Jun 1840. Murdoch was from Pabbay and Christina was from Carinish"
Can you please confirm where the marriage took place & if 'Pabbay' is Barra & 'Carinish' is North Uist?
Agree with Monica any births pre marriage to be either a previous marriage or illegitimate?
Annie
-
"A son, Donald, b abt 1838"
This is not necessarily pre marriage. Where did you find the 'abt 1838' as ages/dates on census records can be out?
Annie
Add...where was Donald born from census records if you don't have a baptism cert?
-
Thanks for the three replies.
The marriage in 1840 was in parish of Harris & St Kilda.
My birth year abt 1838 for Donald is calculated from his marriage cert and census sightings. His birth place is shown as Harris. I can't find a bap cert that fits.
Nor could I find Murdo & family in 1841 - well, not one that fitted.
Think I shall have to investigate a previous marriage later. Thanks.
Suzie
-
Without sounding negative, is it possible you could do a timeline please?
I ask this as the names you're working with were common of the time but the locations are questionable without further info. on dates/places in order?
Annie
-
Well, I don't know if I can give you an accurate timeline as such.
I have posted all the information I have.
I have looked for a possible earlier marriage for Murdoch Macleod but there are so many, it's difficult to know where to start. There was one to a Catherine Macleod but that was in Skye which I think unlikely??
As always, I have to remember that I am doing this for someone else and money for Scotland's People credits is not a bottomless pit.
Suzie
-
Well, I don't know if I can give you an accurate timeline as such.
With the info. you have is it possible to put everything in order please of BMDs & census' with their ages?
When born/where born/age & where born on census info. in order as there seems to be a lot of movement if it's the same family you're following?
Annie
Add, not forgetting occupation given on any those docs!
-
Annie....I'll do that first thing tomorrow if that's OK.
Too weary tonight to concentrate and I want to get it right.
Thank you...till tomorrow.
Suzie
-
Yes of course although it's not only for the benefit of us researchers but for yourself too as it would be so much easier to follow & pick out any discrepancies ;)
Annie
-
I know...it's a good idea. I'll do anything to make headway.
Talk tomorrow.
Suzie
-
Suzie, there is this 1871 entry:
Murdo Mcleod 63 carter b. Harris, Invernesshire
Christian Mcleod 55 b. Harris, Invernesshire
Donald Mcleod 18 b. Harris, Invernesshire
Isabella Mcleod 13 b. Harris, Invernesshire https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYGY-84D
Address: 27 Keith St, Stornaway
I don't know if this family group connects to the previous families you mentioned :-\
Monica
-
The family you did mention earlier with a son Donald, this may be them in 1841:
Murdh Macleod 25 agr lab
Christy Macleod 24
Donald Macleod 3 Months
Address: Island Of Pabbay, Harris
Monica
-
The family you did mention earlier with a son Donald, this may be them in 1841:
Murdh Macleod 25 agr lab
Christy Macleod 24
Donald Macleod 3 Months
Address: Island Of Pabbay, Harris
Monica,
It looks as though this is a wrong Donald in the research process?
"A son, Donald, b abt 1838, married Margaret NICOL 26 Sep 1867 in Gamrie, Banffshire. He named his parents as Murdoch McLeod, fisherman and Marshallima Mcleod MS Campbell"
Annie
-
Suzie, does Donald's marriage certificate say whether his parents were deceased?
Marshallina (I presume if it says Marshallima that the m is a mistake) is interesting, because there is no record anywhere on SP of a Marshallina or Marshallima before 1900. I am wondering if it is perhaps an east-coast Registrar's misunderstanding of the Gaelic given name Marsaili. This name is a derivative of Margaret and is sometimes anglicised as Marcella and sometimes Marjorie/Margery.
I think it would be quite difficult to mishear Christina as Marshallina!
I see that in 1881 the family were at 'Cement Building, Gamrie' **
Donald McLeod, 42, fisherman, born Tarbert, Inverness-shire
Margaret McLeod, wife, 42, born Gamrie
Donald, son, 11, born Gamrie
John Nicol, son, 9, born Gamrie
William Alexander, son, 7, born Gamrie
(I wonder why they didn't name a son Murdoch?)
Tarbert, Inverness-shire, is in the parish of Harris, as is the island of Pabba(y)/Pabaigh in the Sound of Harris. However Pabbay is about as far as you can get from Tarbert and still be in the parish of Harris.
**The LDS transcription of the 1881 census omits the useful information on the page headers of the original, including the name of the town or village, but it is in Enumeration District 1 along with Seatown, Bankhead, Burnside, High Street, Strait Path, Chapelton, Bog House and Harbour Head, so I think it is in Gardenstown. There is another Strait Path, in the burgh of Banff, which comes up in online searches, but it is not this one because the one in Banff is in the parish of Banff, and this one is in the parish of Gamrie. A look at the original of the census on SP would sort that out.
See also https://canmore.org.uk/site/160640/gardenstown-cement-house-centre-house-and-store
-
Hallo everyone...thank you so much for your suggestions.
Monica...and Rosinish...that family you both found in 1841 looks as if it could be them. It doesn't seem to come up on Ancestry at all which is why I have missed it, but I will have a further search for it. It seems it would tally with the possibility I found for 1851.
I'm not sure of the 1871 one you found. I'll look at that and see.
Forfarian...on son Donald's marriage certificate, neither parent was marked as deceased.
I agree the name Marshallima is strange. It's the only place it appears but the maiden name of Campbell was there.
I'll try and do a timeline later this morning as Annie suggested.
Thank you again...
Suzie
-
It doesn't seem to come up on Ancestry at all which is why I have missed it
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
-
Annie and others.
Here is the timeline I have done. Never done one before and it is a good exercise.
Already one or two things have caught my eye and made me say...how can that be?
Anyway, here it is:
TIMELINE FOR MURDOCH MACLEOD AND CHRISTINA CAMPBELL
c1808. Birth. Harris. Murdoch Macleod
c1817. Birth. Harris. Christina Campbell
9 Jun 1840. Marriage. Harris. Murdoch Macleod of Pabbay and Christina Campbell of Carinish
Poss 1841 Census. Pabbay, Harris. Murdh 25, ag lab, Christy 24, Donald 3 months.
Poss 1851 Census. Scalpay, Harris. Murdo 43, farmer, Christina 37, Donald 10, William 8, John 5 plus John Macleod, son 21 b Harris 1830.
27 Feb 1857. Birth. Scalpay, Harris. Isabella Macleod, dau of Murdoch Macleod, cottar and Christina Macleod MS Campbell. Informant, an aunt, Catherine Macleod.
26 Sep 1867. Marriage. Gamrie, Banff. Donald, son of Murdoch Macleod, fisherman and Marshallima Macleod MS Campbell, married Margaret Nicol. (Parents NOT deceased.)
NB: This marriage is correct for the family I am doing, and was my starting place for working backwards into Macleods.
1867. On marriage. Donald noted as 28.
1871. Gamrie, Banff. Donald noted as aged 32, born Harris.
Poss 1871 Census. 27 Keith Street, Stornoway. Murdo 63 carter, Christian 55, Donald 18 and Isabella 13. All born Harris
1881. Gamrie, Banff. Donald noted as 43, born Tarbert.
15 Jan 1891. Stornoway. Marriage of daughter Isabella Macleod to Neil Macaskill, widower and shoemaker. Marriage at 7 Point Street, Stornoway. Parents named as Murdo Macleod, blacksmith and Christina Macleod, MS Campbell, both deceased.
18 Aug 1939. Death of Isabella aged 82. Parents named exactly as on marriage certificate.
I have to go out shortly so will ponder on this meanwhile.
Suzie
-
Poss 1871 Census. 27 Keith Street, Stornoway. Murdo 63 carter, Christian 55, Donald 18 and Isabella 13. All born Harris
What jumps out at me here is that if Donald was married in Gamrie in 1867, aged 28, he can't be the 18-year-old Donald in Stornoway in 1871.
Your Donald was in Gamrie in the 1871 census, aged 32, with Margaret, 32 and Donald, 1.
Could there have been two couples with the same names, I wonder?
-
Another apparent inconsistency. Murdoch's occupation.
1841 - ag lab
1851 - farmer
1871 - carter
1891 - blacksmith
I can see an ag lab becoming a farmer, and even a farmer becoming a carter, but someone who had been an ag lab, farmer and carter suddenly becoming a blacksmith in old age is odd.
Have you looked at the original of that 1871 census in Stornoway to check that Donald and Isabella are definitely listed as son and daughter of Murdoch and Christina? And that the transcription found by Monica has not been garbled by A******y?
I see that Christina MacLeod, other surname Campbell, died in Stornoway in 1885, aged 68. Have you seen that death certificate?
Also Christina McLeod, 65, widow, born Harris, is at 7 Point Street, Stornoway in the 1881 census. So Murdo(ch) must have died between 1871 and 1881. There are 4 deaths of Murdo MacLeods born 1802-1812 in Stornoway during that period.
-
I see that Christina MacLeod, other surname Campbell, died in Stornoway in 1885, aged 68. Have you seen that death certificate?
Also Christina McLeod, 65, widow, born Harris, is at 7 Point Street, Stornoway in the 1881 census. So Murdo(ch) must have died between 1871 and 1881. There are 4 deaths of Murdo MacLeods born 1802-1812 in Stornoway during that period.
From someone's family tree, Isabella's address details at the time of her marriage in 1891 are showing as:
15 January 1891 - 7 Point Street, Stornoway
Fits well with that 1881 census entry you mention from 1881, Forfarian.
Mother Christina's death details are given as:
13 October 1885 - 7 Point Street, Stornoway
Have you viewed these documents, Suzie?
Monica
-
Hallo everyone, thank you all for being so busy on this while I have been otherwise engaged.
The first thing I did was purchase that death certificate for Christina. It reads as follows:
Christina MacLeod, widow of Murdo MacLeod, carter, died on 13 Oct 1885 at 7 Point Street, Stornoway, aged 68. Her parents were named as William Campbell, crofter and Catherine Campbell MS Macaskill, both deceased. Informant was her daughter, Isabella.
SO...this death has to be correct. Ties in with Isabella's accommodation address where she got married in 1891.
IF the 1871 census is the right family, then yes, Murdo would have died between 1871 and 1881. I brought up the list, cogitated somewhat, and after 3 attempts, I got the right one. His death cert reads as follows:
Murdo MacLeod, carter, married to Christina Campbell, died at Keith Street, Stornoway on 29 Mar 1872 aged 62. His parents were named as Donald MacLeod, crofter and Flora MacLeod, MS MacLeod, both deceased. Informant was his son, William MacLeod.
At first I was doubtful about the 1871 census BUT both children, Donald and Isabella are noted as children of Murdo Macleod and Christina Macleod. Donald b abt 1853 ad Isabella 1857. Got Isabell's birth; might have to see if I can get Donald's birth cert now too.
I agree with Forfarian that therefore this Donald clashes with the one I have as marrying Margaret NICOL. BUT I know that is the correct marriage so I wonder if it is a completely different Donald. Yet he says his accommodation was Harris. He says his mother as a Campbell (with an odd first name) and he said his father was a fisherman yet got that name right. Yet Donald was not very bright because he could not write his own name. Only made his mark.
I really need to think about this. But first I need to get all this info down now; I find that when it's written down in my program, you can more easily see the picture beginning to emerge. It would be good if I could find the family in 1861. Isabella would be 3 and Donald about 8. I saw one possibility in Barvas but not the right family.
I must say a huge thank to you all for this. I could not have got this far without you all.
Regards
Suzie
-
I am beginning to think that there are 2 Donald Macleods;
one who was son of Murdo & Christina Campbell, born 1853...
...and another born about 1838/39, to parents of Murdo Macleod and Marshall Campbell.
I really hope that's NOT the case as we have all worked hard to resolve Murdo Macleod and Christina Campbell, their census sightings, as far as we've got, and their marriage and death certificates.
Suzie
-
That is what I have been thinking about ever since Monica found the 18-year-old Donald in the 1871 census.
Interesting that a son William has suddenly popped up. Maybe if we could find him in an earlier census it might shed some light?
-
Forfarian…There was a William aged 8 on the 1851 with Murdo 43 farmer and Christina 37 plus Donald 10 and a John 5. I have just looked through SP births...1842-1861 and there is only one in Harris to an Alexander Macleod. No mother's name!!!
Why are things never easy???
I have had enough today; can't think straight anymore.
Suzie
-
So there was. I wonder where he was in 1861 - and what happened to John?
-
I think the Donald, husband of Margaret Nicol, is not connected.
From what you had for 1851:
Murdo Mcleod 43
Christina Mcleod 37
Dond Mcleod 10
William Mcleod 8
John Mcleod 5
John Mcleod 21
Address: Island of Scalpa
The other Donald you had been looking at gave his mother as Marshallina Campbell. As Forfarian mentioned, Mairsile can be a variant for Marjory or Margaret. See www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Mairsile.html
There is this other family in the same year and place as above. Wondering if this is the Donald, husband to Margaret Nicol in later years:
Murdo Mcleod 40 farmer
Marjory Mcleod 35
Donald Mcleod 14
Alexr Mcleod 10
Donald Mcleod 6
Hanna Mcleod 8
Christina Mcleod 4
John Mcleod 1
Address: Island of Scalpa
There is also a possible death that might connect to this other family. A Marjory MCLEOD, 90, died in 1899 in Harris North - ref 111/1 18 Her other name is CAMPBELL.
Monica
-
There is a family in the 1841 census listed at Deraclete, Harris ( later census shows this as Diraclet which is very close to Tarbert)
Murdoch Mcleod 50
Marrion 45
John 20
Catharine 5
Roderick 3
Donald 1
The family are still at Diraclet in 1851 ( but no Donald) and 1861 ( no Donald or Marrion).
Can’t find any births on Familysearch so no idea what Marrion’s Maiden name was.
Isobel
-
I am wondering if the Donald born 1841, son of Murdo and Christina Campbell, died after the 1851 census. Next son, born c. 1852-3, also called Donald in memory of Murdo's father and this is who we have in the 1871 census? As we know, important family names are re-used if an earlier born child dies with an important family name.
This is all pre 1855 so not possible to find more. I cannot see any of this family OPR entries for births or christenings pre 1855 to help further really.
Monica
-
Wish we could find Murdo, Christina and Isabella at least in 1861. Have tried...but failed!
Monica
-
There is a possible death for Marion in Harris in 1855. She is age 48. Marion is given as age 45 in both 1841 and 1851 so not sure what is correct but 48 would fit the 1851 age. Her mmn was Campbell but she is only listed under the surname McLeod. Might be worth a look. Bonanza if it is correct as you have an 1855 death certificate.
Isobel
-
There is also a possible death that might connect to this other familyMarjory MCLEOD, 90 died in 1899 in Harris North - ref 111/1 18 Her other name is CAMPBELL.
I couldn't resist it ....
Marjory McLeod, widow of Murdo McLeod, fisherman, died at Scalpay, Harris on 11 May 1899 aged 90. Father Donald Campbell, crofter; mother Ann (no MS listed). Cause of death senile decay. Informant was John McLeod, son.
1881 Census: Island Of Scalpay, Harris, Inverness
Murdoch MACLEOD, Head, 70, Crofter
Marjory MACLEOD Wife, 65
John MACLEOD, Son, 32, Fisherman
Peggy MACLEOD, Daur In Law, 23
Murdoch MACLEOD, Son, 23, Sailor (Out Of Employ)
Matilda MACLEOD, Gr Daur, 11, Scholar
all born in Harris.
-
1851, Scalpa, Harris (from FreeCEN)
MCLEOD Murdo 40 Farmer
MCLEOD Marjory Wife 35
MCLEOD Donald Son 14
MCLEOD Alexr Son 10
MCLEOD Donald Son 6
MCLEOD Hanna 8
MCLEOD Christina 4
MCLEOD John Son 1
All born Harris. I think I would want to look at the original of that to check that they really did have two sons named Donald!
1841, Airdhasig, Harris
MACLEOD Murdoch 30 Farmer
MACLEOD Marjory 26
MACLEOD Donald 6
MACLEOD Alic 5m
MACDONALD Mary 72
all born Inverness-shire
Ardhasaig is on Loch Tarbert, west of the village.
See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.9245&lon=-6.8552&layers=5&b=1
and http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NB1302
-
Forfarian...Monica...Isobel...
Thank you for your emails of yesterday evening. A lot to think about, investigate, peruse etc, but it seems we are all agreed that the Murdo & Christina Macleod I have are NOT the parents of the Donald who married Margaret NICOL. So it's back to square one in a way, however, you have given me a lot to go on and I thank you all very much. It will take me a few days to sort this out but I'll be back in touch....
Suzie
-
Murdo Macleod, crofter, married to Marjory Campbell, died on 13 January 1885 at Scalpay, Harris, aged 78. Father John Macleod, crofter, mother Chirsty MacAskill. Cause of death enteric fever. Informant John Macleod, son.
-
Forfarian…..Many thanks....I'll check that out.
At present I am trawling the Hebridean Connections website; lots of connections.
Suzie
-
Good work ladies as I had an incline there was something not quite right... Reply #13
The names just didn't fit nor did the occupation (in my opinion) from what I read initially.
Hopefully Suzie is on the right track now? ;)
Annie