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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: mahon on Wednesday 20 June 18 21:48 BST (UK)
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hi all dont know if im in the correct place but i have a query on ancestry dna. my sister and i have both taken the test and match with the children/grandchildren of 8 siblings of which one is my grandfather. so basically the point is that even though i dont know most of these i have a list passed down and i know 100% that we are connected. during my research over the years i have been in contact with a family called mahan (i am researching mahon) they have matched with my search and after being in touch for 6 months they said they had taken the dna test , so i took one and we matched. i have since matched with all their family who have since taken the dna test. butttt my cousins dont match, not one of them. i have contacted ancestry and because there is at least 30 of my cousins that dont match these people there is not the possibility that the dna has just not been picked up , so there must be a person who is not who we think they are. eg adopted , fathered by someone else etc. but my query is that we are the ones with the name so we must be the right connection but unlikely the mother would have the middle child to her husband and all the others not . everyone is dead so no one is going to get hurt and also i dont feel its something i would share anyway , but as far as my research goes i thought i had hit the jackpot because it proves the person who i was researching is correct. its been years of research and now this has thrown a different light on things. can anyone help as i have been looking to find someone on google but looks like no one does this.xx
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This sounds fascinating. Someone is in for a shock. I look forward to following this thread.
Martin
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I Know Martin its the strangest thing ever.x
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Are the cousins that don't match considered to be 1st, 2nd. or 3rd. cousins.
It wasn't that unusual pre Adoption Act for children to be informally adopted into a family.
Also WW1 & 2 were responsible for a lot of illegitimacy.
Mapping out the tree should lead to the suspect person.
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Thanks Jim just wondering i suppose if people on here think the same as me, or what the explanation is. The main thing is that we carry the name Mahon and the American people we match are that name so if the Americans had a different surname that i would 100% think my grandfather isnt who we think he is, but it looks strange because we are the only match and not the cousins if that makes sense.x
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Could the Mahan s be a separate family and linked thru your grandmother ?
It's fascinating ....I think we need more details or a chart to see who matches who
Having some dates may help can you gI've deceased grandparents names ?
Could it be that a child was baptised under grandparents name so the match is more distant with their cousins and not showing up on a match ....are you talking 1st 2nd 3rd cousins here ?
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Thanks for your reply...
We are talking 2nd cousins, we are all the grandchildren of 8 original brothers and sisters.
We all match regardless I presume because of the mother of these 8 children, we have matches in common across the board for the mothers family, as in all the relevant cousins we can see have matches to the mothers family but the one person I find with the Mahon surname from another Mahon as I describe below doesn't match any of them.
Having researched this for many years, it lead me back to Killeen, Meath in the 1830's and to what I on paper I made the assumption were 2 brothers (John & Cornelius) marrying within days of eachother - this was a hunch at the time based on shared witness names and their location, etc - I then found Cornelius going to the US - I was able to find a descendant of him and his wife who I contacted. This is the person I mention in the thread that told me he had done Ancestry DNA test and a huge breakthrough when we do in fact match!!
I have since matched with every relative on his side that has taken the DNA test, as has my sister.
The obvious reason for the lack of match would be that MY grandfather is the odd the odd one out and was fathered by someone else, the child of a family member, etc - but it's his descendants e.g. me and my sister who match the people in America and they are the people who share the same MAHON surname and who we have matched them to in our search. So even prior to the DNA test results we believed they were related.
Looking at it does everyone reading this believe that the disconnect could only have happened with the parents of these 8 children?
I can't see even if my grandfather had different a different father how his descendants can share a connection with someone who is also a direct descendant of a Mahon, who we know is from the same area and we believed was a relation before the DNA almost 200 years ago.
Any other views would be great and I look forward to your replies
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It's quite difficult to follow when we don't have much in the way of dates.
Are you saying your Grandfather is one of the 8 brothers & sisters or a child of one of them?
When you mention a 2nd. cousin how many times removed would they be.
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This sounds quite complicated and I don't fully understand what you mean, but it does sound intriguing.
My view FWIW - If you and your sister match with the American families, it is probable that you share the same ancestors, though not definitely.
The cousins who don't match - if they appear as fairly close (4th to 6th cousins, or closer) to you, that doesn't mean that they will appear as 4 to 6 cousins to the American family members.
If they appear as 5 to 8 cousins, they will not show up on 'shared matches'. Way round this is for each 'cousin' to click on profile name of your American matches.
Even so there may not be a 6 cM+ match with each member. Way round this is to upload to site with a chromosome browser, but persuading all members to upload can be hard work.
Regards Margaret
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It's intriguing. ..but I think you are saying that the American branch is more distant ....ie not from the 8 brothers
Could be that your mother or grandfather's wife was also somehow distantly connected to the US family so your DNA connection is stronger
other fanciful ideas is that your grandfather was actually a neice or nephews son taken in by your great
grandparents but then your 2nd cousins wouldn't all come out equally related .
Or your grandad had a twin taken to USA. By the other branch of Mahone..would explain a closer match.
What are the age gaps between the 8 original children
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Ps do you have any first cousins who didn't match either ?
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HI Bridget thank you for your reply, So my Grandfather is one of these eight.I have no first cousins who have taken the DNA.so my list on my dna starts with my sister then my matches are as follows.
(hope you know how the dna look haha)
1 my sister
2. 2nd to 3rd one of the grandchildren of the eight
3. 2nd to 3rd one of the grandchildren of the eight
4. my mothers side
5. 3rd to 4th a great great grandson of the eight
6. unknown
7. 3rd to 4th one of the grandchildren of the eight.
8. 3rd to 4th one of the grandchildren of the eight
9. 3rd to 4th a great grandson of the eight.
10.my mothers side
11.unknown
124 -6.my mothers side.
13.4-6 my mothers side.
14.4-6 a great grandson of the mother of the eights sister.
15.unknown
16. 4-6 the american i thinks is related
17.4-6 one of the grandchildren of the eight
18. 4.6 the american i think is related (cousin of the one above)
it goes on like this with another 4 from the americans matching.
A sample of dna from 2nd to 3rd cousin.
132 centimorgans shared across 7 DNA segments according to ancestry 100% Related.
This is the american dna 51 centimorgans shared across 4 DNA segments which according to ancestry means 99% related.
I dont believe the dna is wrong.
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I believe in DNA too
At 4-6 cousin relations tho it's probably just coincidental that you and your sis showed links and other 2nd cousins didn't.
I have similar connections in 1 case link to a 3rd cousin only 1 great grandparent in common but I don't match to her brother (they are full siblings)
my mother matches him . As 3-4th cousin
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Thanks Bridget
The problem is yes i agree , Me and my sister have several on that we dont both match and i believe thats totally expected but in this case the DNA of the Americans start coming in at 16th on my list and carry on being there in both me and my sister. Each time a new american gets DNA tested from this family me and my sister match but not the cousins. Even ancestry have said to have at least 30 of these 2nd cousins who don't match these people means clearly they are not related and for us to match we are.
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So who are the Americansame descended from ...according to their research. .. what are names and dates of their great grandparents?
Are there any other name links ?
Have you used the locality match buttons on Ancestry to match to a paper trail ?
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From what you have said, you and your American cousins definitely match, and you and your English cousins definitely match, but your English cousins don't match the American ones at all, in any shape or form, even at 5th to 8th cousin level.
This comes across as an illegitimacy at some stage, but where? For you to match with both sets, it would not seem to be in your family line.
The American matches start coming in a bit further down your list of matches, so I would think that is where the unknown comes in. The fact that the first American match shared significantly less DNA than your English matches, but supposedly from the same MRCA might indicate that your great grandmother had one child 'out of wedlock' or your great grandfather fathered an illegitimate child who was brought up in the same family as the rest. Thus, those descended from this branch, the American one, inherit a lot less DNA.
According to ISOGG, up to 10% of third cousins will not share enough DNA to show up as match. I know you are 2nd cousins, but if the American branch is descended from an illegitamacy, they will be further removed.
I think you'll just have to carry on digging, looking for any other possibilities as well. I'll be intetested to learn how this turns out. :)
Regards Margaret
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Thanks Margaret. The Americans come in back in 1833 in Killeen Meath. Cornelious Mahon marries Jane Ward in Moynalvy. John Mahon marries Bridget Cowley the same week.John and Bridget go to Dublin and Cornelious goes to American, The Americans i speak of are decendants of Cornelious and i Believe John was his brother. John went on to have Thomas Mahon who left Dublin and had the eight siblings am talking about. So if John and Cornelious were brothers then Thomas and would be a cousin to Cornelious children.xx
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Do you have any other reason to believe that Cornelius and John were brothers, e.g. baptism with same parents name, or anything else? Who were witnesses at the marriages?
I have looked for this family at ancestry public trees, and no-one seems to have confirmed parentage for either Cornelius or John.
Different trees have Cornelius born c 1802 and 1806, John born 1809 - 1810.
If Cornelius was the eldest child, then he might have been born to a different father. Children often take the surname of the man who raised them, even if he wasn't their father.
My 2G grandmother Mary Ann Steer had 2 sons fathered by the same man before she settled down and married someone else. They kept their original surname, but as they were both under 4, could easily have taken the surname of their stepfather, James Wood. If no baptisms existed for the 2 boys and they had taken his name, I wouldn't have matched with any of siblings of James Wood and might have been puzzled in the same way as you. I do match with one of their children, but to a good deal less obviously than I might have thought - the match appears as 5th to 8th cousin, and only 6.7 cM. My first cousin doesn't match at all.
Have any of you uploaded your results anywhere else to use a chromosome browser? Your English cousins might match the American ones at a lesser level.
Regards, Margaret
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Hi Margaret
Thank you for your reply, I presume that the problem happens with the parents of the 8 siblings , i dont know what but whatever happens further back with Cornelious and John would have no bearing i dont think on the dna being different, but thats just me presuming as i really dont know. No dont have any details on their births at all . xx