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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: wise1 on Thursday 21 June 18 15:36 BST (UK)
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Can I request some assistance from the great experts on this forum.
I have a neighbour who we have discussed their family history . I have a FindMyPast sub
but can I find his family on there .
Patrick Brennan -Born 19,12.1894 Liverpool . I have his Merchant Navy record but cannot pick him
up in the census records of 1901 -1911 .
Any wizards on here have a magic wand or something ? Im stuck ! Thanks in advance people.
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Possible birth registration
BRENNAN, PATRICK mmn MCANEMEY
1894 Dec Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 98
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There is a Patrick Brennan age 17 on 1911 census .West derby sub district 4
Born Liverpool
Did he have a sister Catherine?
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Hi Sorry - all he knows is that Patrick Married Margaret Garvey in 1917
but very little is known of his family .
Tricky one this
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There is also a Patrick Brennan in West derby lancashier in 1901 aged 6
(Sorry don't have access to the image )
Do his army records give next of kins or parents names ?
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Just adding there were a couple of Patrick Brennan birth registrations the previous year but in West Derby reg district
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Merchant Navy : not army no next of kin listed
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How amazing, there’s a photo of him on his merchant navy record 😀
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Hi Sorry - all he knows is that Patrick Married Margaret Garvey in 1917
but very little is known of his family .
Tricky one this
Presumably you don't have the marriage certificate which should give information on his father :-\
According to LancashireBMD it was Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended
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Mothers maiden name is similar
BRENNAN, MARY mmn MCINERNEY
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 44
1911 Possibility for Patrick & Mary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW1X-NGF
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Hi there,
From freebmd - Marriage Dec 1917 Liverpool v8b p89 Patrick Brennan married Margaret Garvey.
Regards, Tony.
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Do you have his children's names?
There is a family which may match potentially
Patrick Brennan aged 6 in 1901 and 16 in 1911 in Everton in Liverpool
Father James - a dock labourer from Ireland
Mother Mary E
Siblings James, Joseph, Thomas, Margaret, Mary, Edward and Martin
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There's a Dec 1988 death for a Patrick Brennan DOB 18 Dec 1894 in Knowsley Mersyside.
All we have to do is fill in the missing 94 years ;D
Carol
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iolaus
Patrick Brennan was married in 1917 to Margaret Garvey
They had children later on but its the period before 1917 that is vague .
carol8353- that is correct DOD
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Found his Catholic baptism at St Alban's Church Liverpool on 4 Jan 1895,DOB 18th Dec 1894.
Parents Thomas Brennan and Bridgide Mc Arrery?
Of 13 Barmouth Rd/St ?
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Good find Carol
Transcribed names from Latin
Marriage 21 July 1892
Thomas Brennan 13 Barmouth Street son of James
Bridget McNerney 13 Barmouth Street Father Patrick
Witnesses John Graham and Johanna McNerney (that might be Jane or Johanna)
Fits with Rosie’s initial suggestion
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This looks good for 1911 - Patrick Brennan b Liverpool
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW1X-NGF
I should have read Rosie’s post re 1911 ::)
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1911 fits with the witnesses to the marriage of Thomas and Bridget.
The child Albert Graham in 1911 has mmn McInerney.
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1901 3409/63/38
13 Barmouth Street
Patrick McInerney 60 yrs
Mary McInerney 55 yrs
Bridget Breman daughter 27 yrs widow b Ireland
Patrick Tracey 22 yrs
John Maker 23 yrs
Patrick Breman 7 yrs grandson
Mary Breman 7 yrs granddaughter
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Great find heywood
So Patrick and his sister Mary named after their maternal.grandparents
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If there was only medals for the great people on here . I cannot thank you enough.
Who would think Brennan would be spelt Bremen !
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If there was only medals for the great people on here . I cannot thank you enough.
Who would think Brennan would be spelt Bremen !
It does look like like ‘nn’ really but you would have to know that - so the transcriber wrote what they saw, I suppose.
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go to
www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk
baptisms
Patrick
brennan
1895
search
For Full Details of this Baptism
1895-509 ST ALBAN 282-ALB-1-6 (663) 1894 1895 PATRICK BRENNAN - father THOMAS mother BRIDGET McANERY - REQUEST FORM
if you click on REQUEST FORM - YOU CAN BUY THAT CERTIFICATE FOR £3...and your neighbour can hang it on their wall ...lol
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Found his Catholic baptism at St Alban's Church Liverpool on 4 Jan 1895,DOB 18th Dec 1894.
Parents Thomas Brennan and Bridgide Mc Arrery?
Of 13 Barmouth Rd/St ?
No need to go to Liverpool History Projects (I don't think they provide a service now anyway people can't get a response from them) the baptism is on Ancestry see above.
Blue
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Thank you everyone - It's starting to make much more sense!
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I see this has been moved to Lancashire, if your friend wants to go any further back we may be looking at Ireland of course 8)
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HI Carol is that a needle in the haystack ? Any tips ? Thanks
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Bridget McInerney
Birth in County Tipperary on 1 Feb 1872 (mother's surname is Tracey remember nephew Patrick Tracey was with family on the 1901 census):-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03260/2194973.pdf
Blue
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Can anyone spot Thomas Brennan on any census records to give us a year of birth estimate? The GRO marriage record may be needed to get his approximate age and his father's occupation as it might difficult to find the right Thomas Brennan with any certainty. The RC church record says his father was James here's one of possibly numerous candidates, a County Tipperary birth in 1868:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03428/2258219.pdf
Blue
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By 1901 Bridget says she is widowed,but I can't find a Thomas Brennan in Lancashire that I like the sound of. Maybe he went back to Ireland and died there?
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As the birth for Bridget says and the 1871 marriage below, her father was a policeman he was in the RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary), here is Bridget's parents' marriage:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11346/8165160.pdf
Blue
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do we know that Thomas was born in Ireland
I.m interested in the various spellings of Bridget .I was always told mine Brigid was Irish spelling. Can't access those Irish records shown
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They are viewable you need to follow the procedure for using the website ie do the captcha etc
Blue
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Here's Patrick McInnery with his family in 1881 Bridget aged 9
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-JY2F
In 1871 he was married but a labourer in a boarding house in liverpool
Bridget s younger sisters Joanna and Catherine born in Seacombe
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Mary Ann McInerney's birth in 1868 which predates the marriage and Bridget's birth but includes both parents' names:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03440/2263046.pdf
Blue
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In 1871 he was married but a labourer in a boarding house in liverpool
Wasn't he more likely to still be in Ireland in 1871? He was a policeman in County Tipperary when Mary Ann was born in 1868, when he married in May 1871 and when Bridget was born in 1872.
Blue
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Blue - you are a hero . This is so fascinating. Glued!
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Blue: I agree about Patrick McInnery but the one in 1871 is born Ireland and would fit if he is not with his wife and children
The marriage of Thomas BRENNEN and Bridget was in Liverpool. ..
Reply 14 &15
Has anyone found him or hisomething fathere James in Ireland at all ...sorry if I miss the Irish records I do the captcha but the page disappears
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GRO birth indexes
Name: Johanna McInarnay
Mother: Gracy
Quarter: Jan/Feb/Mar
Year: 1875
District: Birkenhead
Volume: 8a
Page: 550
Occasional Copy: A
Name: Catherine McInerney
Mother: Tracy
Quarter: Apr/May/Jun
Year: 1878
District: Birkenhead
Volume: 8a
Page: 576
Blue
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Well done for all those finds Blue
Bootle is not far from Birkenhead I'm guessing Seacombe Cheshire is nearby too .
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Blue: I agree about Patrick McInnery but the one in 1871 is born Ireland and would fit if he is not with his wife and children
The marriage of Thomas BRENNEN and Bridget was in Liverpool. ..
Reply 14 &15
Has anyone found him or hisomething fathere James in Ireland at all ...sorry if I miss the Irish records I do the captcha but the page disappears
It looks like the McInerney family came to England between 1872 and 1875. Patrick registered the birth of Bridget on 9 March 1872 and he was still then a constable in County Tipperary. The first English birth was in 1875 in Wirral so initially they settled in Wirral then moved over the water to Bootle and Liverpool.
Thomas Brennan has not been found on the English census records so for more information about him it might be a good idea to get the civil version of the marriage record with his age, occupation and father's occupation on it.
If anyone is having problems accessing the Irish civil registration pdf record links message me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the confirmed McInerney records and the possible Thomas Brennan birth.
Blue
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It might be a good idea to post asking for help and advice on the Ireland board about your RIC man. It's not an area of research I'm familiar with. There appears to be some records online so you may be able to find out more about Patrick. From what I can gather RIC men served in other counties not their county of birth so Patrick McInerney may have come from elsewhere, ie the surname is very common in County Clare. There may be an explanation for the marriage taking place after Mary Ann's birth. There appears to have been length of time served restrictions on RIC men marrying.
It appears to have been a tough job with low pay for a sub-constable, the bottom rank. Most police were Irish Catholics. They could be unpopular with local communities as there was discontent over landlords, land issues and British rule and the police were responsible for keeping law and order. The 1860s appears to have been a bit lively with the threat of a Fenian uprising but by the 1870s there are newspaper articles discussing possible reductions in police numbers in County Tipperary as things had quietened down.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/ireland/
Blue
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Mary or Maria Treacy/Trac(e)y's father was a labourer called Patrick and she was from Killea according to the 1871 marriage record. One of the witnesses was a Stephen Treacy. Possible death entry for her father Patrick at Killea in 1891 informant is son Stephen Treacy:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06062/4728374.pdf
Patrick's wife, Mary/Maria's mother Mary died in 1885:-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06287/4801471.pdf
Mary was born at Coolcormack, County Tipperary to Patrick Tracy and Mary Armstrong and baptised on 30 Aug 1836:-
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000632698_011
Mary/Maria's brother Stephen Treacy on Irish census records at Killea, County Tipperary:-
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003902514/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003356217/
Blue
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Barmouth Street Liverpool!
Seems to pop up a lot ! Anyone have electoral rolls ? Or is that a trip to the Liverpool Library ?
Thanks so far
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The Liverpool electoral registers are online and available to view free at all Liverpool libraries, the later the records the more people you will find on there. You can search in five year intervals. For the years in between you need to use the browse facility, a longer process, you need to locate the ward and polling district for the street and try to determine where it may appear in a large batch of records. I looked at the Liverpool street directories on Family Search (I don't have any subscriptions at the moment) unfortunately it's one of those streets the compilers overlooked. Here is a link to the electoral registers on Ancestry:-
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61319
Blue
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I have access to ER on Ancestry but have never looked by address
Talk me thru what or who to look for and I.ll make some time to look
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http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolaz/gi1012.htm
Barmouth Street runs between Boundary Lane and Athol Street - in the Vauxhall area of Liverpool.
I used to drink in The Athol Vaults - a beautiful pub ...sadly closed down - it is not far from the Dock area ...
http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/the-lost-pubs-of-liverpool/athol-vaults/
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I have access to ER on Ancestry but have never looked by address
Talk me thru what or who to look for and I.ll make some time to look
An example of how you would go about this is to take Patrick McInerney who we know was at 13 Barmouth Street on the 1901 census and search for him on the electoral registers. If you find him at that address you then have a way in to looking at other years by having the ward and polling district number for that street which is stated at the top of the page in the register.
Blue
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I've found a way in. Do this search as per the spelling below:-
First name: Michael Patrick
Surname: Mc*nerney
You should get results for him at 13 Barmouth Street for years 1894/95, 1899/1900, 1904/05 and possibly other years. I can't view these records to investigate further.
Blue
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I found the following electoral registers at my local library. Records for other years not listed below exist but I didn't get around to viewing them, no other household members are listed, remember this was before all adults had the vote:-
Michael McNerney, 13 Barmouth Street, 1884-85
Michael Patrick McInerney, 13 Barmouth Street, 1885-86, 1886-87, 1887-88, 1888-89, 1889-90, 1890-91, 1891-92, 1892-93, 1894-95, 1899-1900, 1904-05, 1905-06, 1907-08.
Do we have Patrick and Mary's burials at Ford Cemetery? If not here they are, the ages look well out though both would have been around 70 years rather than 60 years:-
Patrick McInerney, 13 Barmouth Street, 60 years, buried: 5 Jan 1908, Public grave: X 1118
Mary McNarney, 13 Barmouth Street, 61 years, buried: 18 Jun 1909, Public grave: X 1436?
Blue
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Well done blue
I haven't learnt how to do the electoral search properly. I just. Come up with the 1 name
Other people seem to find address and names of others in household
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These records are from before WW1 later records have more household members. Records from the 1920s and 1930s are more useful as they include other people living at the property.
Blue
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Don't forget that early records only showed the person eligible to vote- ie usually the man of the house.Women didn't get the vote until later. And electoral rolls only ever show those over 21 until 1971 when the voting age was lowered to 18.