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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Romilly on Thursday 21 June 18 15:49 BST (UK)
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I've been sent some info from 'The Genealogist' on their 'Change of Names Database' and wondered if anyone on here had tried it?
Having just rejoined Ancestry, I'm not in a rush to sign up to the Genealogist again, but wondered how useful this would be?
I'm fairly convinced that the reason that I can't find my Grandfather, William James Wilson (1860 - 1937) anywhere before his Marriage in Swansea in 1893, is that he must have used a different Surname prior to that. He says on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses that he was Born in 'Manchester, Lancs', but I've never been able to find a Birth or Baptism that fits...
Romilly ::)
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To help anyone looking, the marriage was 22 Jun 1893 at Swansea parish church:
William James Wilson, 32, Bachelor, Painter, Lower Oxford st., William Wilson (deceased), Mason
Margaret Rees, 26, Spinster, , Northampton Villas, Evan Rees, Copperman
Both signed
Witness: Evan Rees, Esta Selina Rees (the Esta is in a different hand from Selina's)
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I had a quick try of it for someone who had been born in Russia, but had anglicized their surname. I could therefore only use the new name --- I got Nil results.
I realise I can't judge it from just that one try though.
The trouble is, anybody could simply change their name to whatever they wanted (they just wouldn't have any documentation, but not as much evidence of identity was needed 'back in the day').
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Yes, anyone could seemingly change their name at the drop of a hat, as it were.
I was just wondering to what detail the Genealogist's database went into... I.e, have they put on people with the same year and place of birth, appearing with different Surnames?
I'm sure that I would find nothing new on my elusive Grandfather on there. I've been trying to find him since I first started looking, in the 1970's. And I've been asking on here since I joined in 2005:-(
It was just another 'clutching at straws' exercise really...
Romilly ???
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You can still change your name "at the drop of a hat". You can call yourself anything as long as it isn't for fraudulent purposes.
Martin
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Don'tknow if I'm allowed to do this - but this is the information provided on the Genealogist site about the 'Changes of Name' dataset.
'More Information
Change Of Names
This collection has been compiled from various sources. These include Changes of Name by Royal licence, which were usually publicised in the London and Dublin Gazettes, as well as the 'Times' newspaper.
Changes of name also took place by private acts of Parliament and are indicated by the reign and name of the ruling monarch, while changes made by Deed poll would also be advertised in the 'Times'.
Scottish changes of name were recorded in the Register of Lord Lyon in Edinburgh, while other Irish changes were recorded in the Ulster's Office in Dublin and published in the Dublin Gazette, and also noted by Ulster King of Arms William Betham.'
The search screen gives an option of inserting the previous name (Christian and surname) and the new name(s). Also gives a date field (which I cannot imagine anyone knowing!
I've just tried inputting a surname of Schmidt - and looked at one of the results -- it seems to show entries from 'The Times' --- simply a list of old names and new names - some have a date at the side, others don't. Hence you might be able to find these by searching old Times newspapers (but I haven't tried).
Someone had changed their name from Schmidt -- to De Schmidt!!
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Yes, deed poll is the formal way of announcement of a name change, not a requirement.
Martin
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See Changes of name http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/changes-of-name/
Stan
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Thank you for that link Stan -- very informative.
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Thanks for the info Pennines and Stan, - much appreciated.
I'm guessing that my Grandfather never did anything 'legal', - if he did change his name at all.
It's perfectly possible of course, that his Birth in Approx 1860, was never registered. And with a name like Wilson, it's quite possible to hide on the earlier Censuses... It just seems curious to me that while he is perfectly traceable and settled after his Marriage in 1893, and appears on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses; his origins remain shrouded in obscurity!
And I have also spent much time and effort trying to find him with the Father that he names on his Marriage Cert, 'William Wilson (Deceased) Occupation: Mason', - but again, have drawn a blank. The most likely explanation is that he was illegitimate, was registered under his Mother's name, and took on the name 'Wilson' when she married someone of that name.
But... I will probably never know the true situation.
Romilly :-\
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knowledge around the law and name changes tends to be patchy at best. I have been trying to return to using my maiden name and the information I have been given by various companies and organisations has been shocking. Including such gems as "it's illegal for a married woman to use her maiden name". My 3x grt grandfather changed his name and appears to have just started using it.
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Romilly,
I know this is a complete long shot -- but on the 1861 census there is a William Wilson, shown as born in 1820, Ackworth, Yorkshire -- a stone mason -- shown as a Surgical Patient in Manchester Royal Infirmary. He is a Widower.
I haven't investigated him further - but went into the realms of fantasy -- perhaps your William James was his son -- mother died in childbirth and William James was taken into either a children's home - or was cared for by a relative. If the latter - he may have been recorded on the census under the relative's surname.
Doesn't explain why you can't find his birth though, unless father was ill - mother died - and he was never registered.
As I say -- I haven't looked into this William Wilson, so it may be a complete red herring.
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Hi Pennines,
Just found your reply to this... (I've been away). Many thanks for looking, - Yes, I too found the 'William Wilson, Born Ackworth, a Surgical Patient in Manchester on the 1861 Census'. It's on Piece 2954, Folio 33, Page 11. As you say, listed as 'Widower'.
I tried following him through the later Censuses, and if my memory serves me correctly, he ends up in Pontefract Workhouse. He's listed there on the 1881 Census:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Pontefract/Pontefract1881.shtml
I found no trace of a William James Wilson being with him at all though... It's very frustrating...:-(
Romilly.
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Romilly - you must be SO frustrated with this mystery.
You are right about William the Stone Mason ending up in the Workhouse near Pontefract in 1881 --it looks like he died in 1882 and was buried at St Giles and St Mary's Church, Pontefract.
He had married a Margaret (born Scotland) at some point between 1861 and 1871 as they are living in Todmorden by the time of the 1871 census.
That doesn't help one jot though!
If William James Wilson married in 1893 - you would have thought he would have been living in the same area where he married, in 1891 --- but I can't find him. I have explored the 'Oxford' Street addresses (couldn't find Lower Oxford St as per marriage address) -- in 1891 and got all excited as there was a William James (surname James) on that street -- but totally the wrong chap.
I have also searched the Friendly Society Records held at Warwick University for Stone Masons in the hope that the William Wilson may have taken out a policy -- but he didn't. That site can be fairly useful if you have a Stone Mason ancestor and he had a policy for himself and his family.
(Just for future reference).
https://warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/subject_guides/family_history/stone/obituaries/wh/
(I may not have managed to copy that entire link - it was quite lengthy and applied to the section covering the initial 'W')
Really sorry not to have been able to help -- there must be a solution -- but heaven knows what.
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Hi Pennines,
Thanks so much for taking the time and trouble to look at this for me, your efforts are greatly appreciated. It is indeed very frustrating that I can seemingly get no further with this:-(
As my late Father, (son of William James Wilson) died when I was 5, ( and was 30yrs) older than my Mother), there is no one still alive who could give me any pointers with this...
What an interesting Site the Warwick University one that you posted is! Many thanks for posting it.
Several years ago now I tried manually going through the 1891 Census for Swansea, to see if I could find William James Wilson on there, but no joy. He's on the Electoral Rolls for Swansea from 1894 to 1932, but not before then. I found several Articles concerning him on the Welsh Newspapers On- Line Site though, concerning his Invention, and then the initial stages of Bankruptcy proceedings. He didn't actually go bankrupt, but in one of the articles, he says that he started his Painting and Decorating Company, 'Wilson and Co' in 1895 with the sum of £36. This seemed an unusual sum, but perhaps the sort of amount that one might get on leaving one of the Services?
Surfice it to say that I have got nowhere with any of this! But it's not for want of trying.
Romilly ::)
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Just looked at Military Records -- there was a William Wilson, right age, enlisted at Salford,Manchester aged 19 -- but he married during his Army Service. Shucks!
What did your William James invent? Something to make him disappear from all records for a while maybe?
(No need to reply Romilly - I'm only joking - but I'll be dreaming about him tonight.)
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The football is too painful to watch Pennines...
And so I have dug out the Article concerning my Grandfather's 'Hot Air' Invention... (Sorry, - 'Pure Air', - I have to joke about it... otherwise I'd tear my hair out:-)
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there is a William Wilson b 1860 Manchester MMN Quinn and there is a William Wilson married a Frances Quinn in Manchester 1851
haven't tried to find them anywhere else yet
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there is a William Wilson b 1860 Manchester MMN Quinn and there is a William Wilson married a Frances Quinn in Manchester 1851
haven't tried to find them anywhere else yet
Thanks for looking sandiep. (England are through btw:-)
Just found them on the 1861, -
RG 9/2952/75 p 4
The Quinns and Wilsons seem all mixed up...
Romilly.
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Hi Romilly -- thank you so much for the newspaper report. How interesting -- he was clearly a clever chap.
(I know what you mean about England -- I had the current score permanently on teletext - and when it came to penalties and the names kept coming up as they scored, I was a nervous wreck.)
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Hi Again Pennines,
At least they're through, eh? ;)
Sadly... all didn't seem to go well with the 'Wilson Air Purifier. (See Attached Article). However, it sounds very similar to the system used in contemporary 'eco houses', and so perhaps he was just ahead of his time...
None of it gets me any closer to finding him anywhere before 1893 though...
Romilly :-\
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That is such a shame. What a disappointment for him when he must have put so much into it. How interesting that he was also classed as a Draper.
There is a James William Wilson born in Manchester (Ancoats area) in September quarter of 1859 - with a mother's maiden name of Wilson. You have probably seen it. It's also on Lancs BMD (which identified the area as Ancoats).
I haven't followed him through.
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In Kelly's Directory for South Wales in 1894 he's listed as a 'News Vendor' at 113 St Helens Road, Swansea!
Interestingly, there were some Drapers called Wilson in Church Park, Mumbles, but I've never managed to find any link. They were Scottish.
My Grandfather didn't actually go bankrupt, just the initial stages, 'first letters of administration'. I think that he gave up the Drapery business, and concentrated on the Painting and Decorating one. They ran the business and a shop from 99 St Helens Road, but lived at 'Y Plas' Llangyfelach Road from 1919 - 1932.
Yes, I have the Birth Cert for that James William Wilson, and I've followed him through, and I'm fairly certain he's not the right man. Over the years I've ordered about 10+ Birth Certs, and none have matched the info my Grandfather gives on his Marriage Cert.
The most likely reason is a name change, either due to his Mother's marriage, or to leave an unwanted marriage of his own, or for some other nefarious reason known only to him:-(
Thanks for your help and interest.
Romilly 8)