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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Westfrem on Saturday 23 June 18 12:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone have access to the parish registers of this area. I suspect it would either be Littelton on Severn, Alverston St Helens or Olveston St Mary.
I am particularly interested in the father of the bride but any witnesses etc would be helpful as well.
Thanks
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Trying to find a Mary Ann CLIFFORD born Olveston, and there is one on the 1911 census aged 25 born Olveston
? on the 1891 Census for the Cottage at Olveston is
Geo CLIFFORD - aged 54, General labourer, born Cricklade, Wilts
Clara CLIFFORD - aged 54, born Dorsetshire
Alfred - 18 - born Glos Olveston
and
Polly CLIFFORD - Grandchild aged 2 - born Olveston
Still with them 1901 census
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Polly CLIFFORD christened 14 April 1889 at Alveston St Helen: Mother Aimie CLIFFORD.
? as Polly is a nickname for Mary Ann
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For info a family tree has her parents as Maurice Clifford and Elizabeth Young.
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FindMyPast has the baptism (transcription) of
Mary Ann Clifford, 29 Jan 1893, residence Olveston, parents Maurice and Elizabeth
Found a military record for a James Edward Sansum (FindMyPast), attested 1903, age 18. Born Littleton on Severn - could this be your James E Sansum?
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Mary Ann SANSUM
Death: Age 82
Birth Date: 13 March 1889
Registration Date: Sept 1971
Registration District : Weston-super-Mare
and her husband
Registered in Weston Super Mare - March 1961
SANSUM James Edwin otherwise James Edward of 2 Brick Cottages, Littleton-on-Severn, Glos. died at the General Hospital, Weston-Super-Mare
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As we are not allowed to quote 1939 Register - have sent a private reply which gives Mary's dob
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The Brick Cottage address links to the Army record on FindMyPast.
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The General Register Office (GRO) has the birth registration of a -
Mary Ann Young, Mar Qtr 1893, Thornbury, 6a 216 - mother's maiden name Young
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Mary Ann Cliffford, daughter of Maurice/Elizabeth, can be found with the family on the 1911 Census. But the age is 8 years out compared with her 1901 Census age. Her age was originally entered in the "Ages of Males" column, crossed out and entered in the correct column - but badly written. It could be a badly written "8", and thus transcribed as a "0".
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Thanks all. My problem is I am quite sure that the Mary Ann Clifford who married James Sansum was in fact Polly who was the illegitimate daughter of Annie (transcribed as Aimie in her baptism record). Annie being the sister of Maurice who married Elizabeth Young. Their daughter Mary Ann was born in 1893 GRO and baptism so would not tie with the birth date given to Mary Ann Sansum in later records.
I have no birth date for Polly only a baptism which would fit nicely. So I had hoped that the marriage register would give the father of Mary Ann who married Sansum or in Polly's case no father.
There is also an outbound passenger list for a Mary Ann Clifford a servant aged 18 with birthdate 1893 bound for New York but no address or other means of identification.
Thanks Val
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General Register Office (GRO) birth registration
Polly Clifford, Jun Qtr 1889, Thornbury, 6a 213 - no mother's maiden name
Polly Clifford, born Olveston, easily found in 1891 and 1901 Census (with grandparents)
Mary Ann Clifford, born Olveston, registered Mar Qtr 1893, Thornbury (mother Young) can be found in 1901 Census with parents Maurice and Elizabeth.
Cannot find a Polly Clifford, born Olveston, on the 1911 Census.
Can find a Mary Clifford with parents Maurice and Elizabeth in 1911 and also a Mary Ann Clifford, not with family, born Olveston.
Jun Qtr 1913, Thornbury, Mary A Clifford marries James E Sansum
Jun Qtr 1920, Thornbury, Mary A Clifford marries Charley Robbins
Can find a Charley Robbins on the 1939 register (not Thornbury but a nearby Parish) whose marital status would fit with the death registration of a -
Mary A Robbins, age 42, Jun qtr 1935, Thornbury, 6a 268
Calculated YoB is 1893 - which fits the daughter of Maurice and Elizabeth.
Maurice Clifford died 1927, therefore should appear on any daughter's marriage cert (no guarantee). But without certs it's simply speculation.
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Electoral Roll, Thornbury (up to 1939) has
ROBBINS Charley
ROBBINS Mary Ann
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Thanks all for taking time to help with my intriguing puzzle.
I had completely missed the 1911 census entry for Mary Clifford the cook. Although she is listed as older than she actually would have been I am pretty sure that this would have been Polly.
The Mary Ann Robbins would fit beautifully especially as the burial is in the same small parish as the entries in the Electoral Register. Age correct as well as you pointed out.
The anomaly with the Electoral Register (i.e. continues to be a Mary Ann and a Charley after her supposed death date) may be due to an older Mary Ann (maybe Charley's mother? need to research further) moving in with her son after his wife's death. There is an older Mary Ann Robbins who died after the 1939 register.
Or could the name have simply not have been removed from the Electoral Register after her death? I have no idea if this is possible?
As you say purely conjecture but this definitely looks more likely than the trees on the well known website.
One last thing: can anyone find out what happened to Charley post 1939. I have been unable to find a death registration and had hoped to find a burial with Mary Ann in Filton.... too much to ask for of course ;D
Thanks again
Val
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Would this death fit your Charley?
Charlie Robbins
Mar 1957
Bristol
age 64
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Assuming I have the correct 1939 entry the death registration would fit perfectly. Thanks.