RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: brigidmac on Sunday 24 June 18 22:04 BST (UK)
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Hello
Can anyone help me find out abut this man for his grandson who called him Pops tho
Apparently he was a lovely man
He's on 1939 register 17 pellant road Fullham b 1897 married
not married to the woman in that household .
How can I find more about him
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He.s notthe Albert Ketch from.West riding Yorkshire as he is with wife and children in 1939
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Nor is he AlBert Keetch son of Curtis
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Does his grandson not have any more information to give you at all - e.g. whom he married, children, where & when he died?
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There’s an Albert Ketch marriage to Catherine Copp or Coop, Jun qtr 1921 Rochford?
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He thought he was married to his grandmother but he wasn't
He remebers his father went to a funeral in Southend on Sea
But doesn't know if it was Albert Ketch or his # grandfather by birth who died in 1964
Probably Albert died 60.s or early 70.s
Of course he may have been unmarried
I'm. Hoping birthday is correct on register 20 Feb 1897
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1896 rather than 1897 I think?
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Do we have details of “birth father who died in 1964” - this presumably being a son of Albert?
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The 1939 register has 20 Feb 1896 but there
Is a southend birth record for 20 Feb 1888 so I've plumped to be 1 year out .
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Have modified that post
It was the grandsons father who attended his "fathers" funeral
In Southend on Sea
So whether he had any contact with his biological father who died Chelsea is unknown
Grandson didn't know' " Pops' real name til today
I can't read address on 1939
But it's no.22
Would it be worth looking for adverts in papers as he was a plasterer
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Lisgar Terrace:
http://www.shgroup.org.uk/about-us/latest-news/latest-developments/lisgar-terrace/
I’m afraid things are not very clear. Was “Pops” a biological grandfather or a stepgrandfather of your correspondent? The usual BMD (etc) family history records are much more likely to be fruitful than the off-chance of an ad in a paper, but I am struggling to understand the exact relationships, and how much is known. You mention an 1888 birth in Southend, but I don’t see it (and still don’t see it even if it was a typo for 1898).
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Anyway if Southend is his birthplace, the Rochford marriage I mentioned at reply #4 looks possible.
It is followed by three Ketch births in Rochford 1922-1930, but with mmn Thorpe, so if Catherine is their mother she may have been married before.
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Hoping birthday is correct on register 20 Feb 1897
There are only 2 Albert Ketch births - 1892 and 1899 and you have already ruled out the 1899 one
He.s notthe Albert Ketch from.West riding Yorkshire as he is with wife and children in 1939
There is no Albert Ketch death with a birthyear round 1896/97. In which county did he die?
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Thanks so much atm
I'm. Really tired now so typing and explaiming will be hard
Will look into those marriages tomorrow have adied Albert Ketch as partner to my man's grandmother on Ancestry tree
Will check that birth reg.
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Apologies it's the death registration
Which gives birth year as 1888
Southend ....which county is that ?
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Apologies it's the death registration
Which gives birth year as 1888
What year and where??
The only one I can find is Albert Keitch died 1940 Somerset - born 1888
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Death was September 1973
Southend on Sea Essex
I wonder if he could have been born abroad.
What origins is the name Ketch .?
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How's about this then?
1938 ER's
55 Drake Road
Harrow Plinner
Caroline Ann Chaplin
Ivy Caroline Chaplin
Albert Ketch
So here we have Chaplin and Ketch, Chaplin from a previous enquiry
Louisa Maud
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Death was September 1973
Southend on Sea Essex
I wonder if he could have been born abroad.
What origins is the name Ketch .?
Death, Sep qtr 1973 Southend
Albert Ketch, born 20 Feb 1899
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So it’s looking as though by the late 1930s he was cohabiting with Caroline Chaplin, though both were lawfully married to other people.
Caroline (maiden name Bradford) had married Alfred T Chaplin in Fulham, Dec qtr 1913.
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Carrying on ER's Albert Ketch lived at 55 Drake road till about 1939, not looked at 1939 register
from 1945 he lived at 48 Diamond Road Uxbridge along with other Chaplins till about 1965
1947 Albert Ketch and Chaplins along with Ivy C Sheppard and Frank Sheppard, so Ivy Caroline married Frank W Sheppard, not looked up the exact date but that should be easy enough
So are you suggesting the Ketch family and Chaplin were related or was he living as a partner to Caroline Ann Chaplin?
OR AM I GOING OFF TRACK
Louisa Maud
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Albert Ketch born Holbeck, MMN Kellett
Louisa Maud
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I see (with thanks to LM for the tip about the other thread) that Caroline’s lawful husband Alfred Thomas Chaplin is known about:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=795730.0
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I must say I am not easily finding Catherine who married Albert Ketch in Rochford in 1921 ???
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Clearly the year of 1896 in 1939 register is incorrect. His death entry gives birth date as 20 Feb 1899 and he has to be the Albert birth regd Mar.qtr.1899 Holbeck - census shows he was born Churwell Yorkshire, son of George and Susan nah.
Annette
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Looks like we are getting somewhere :). If the Rochford births are right, he named a son after his father.
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Catherine's maiden name was COOP, she might well have been a widow, but that is speculation
LM
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Well done all
No suggestion of a relationship between Ketch and Chaplins
Caroline and Albert Ketch were living in Harrow before his death
So funeral may not have been in Southend on Sea. ...
Why would record be there ?
Can't find a will or probate for him
Thanks all
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Annette I thought I'd ruled out George and suSan parenuts in Rochford
Co's that albett e's with tem. In 1939
Sorry out and about on mobile phone now
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Annette I thought I'd ruled out George and suSan parenuts in Rochford
Co's that albett e's with tem. In 1939
Are you sure? Looks to me as though his mother Susannah Ketch died in Dewsbury in 1932, aged 61?
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George W Ketch (possible son of Albert) may have died aged 40, Sep qtr 1965 Rochford.
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He was a proper Londoner apparently
Caroline's children called him PopShe called him Albert or "put the kettle on darlin"
It wasn't a funeral in Southend but Eric Chaplin had to collect pop.effects thete
"
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possible birth and parents marriage
George W Ketch born Rochford 1925 MMN Thorpe
Dan Ketch married Edith Thorpe 1913 Dewsbury
LM
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Other post was trying to link the Chaplins to famous CHAPLIN s
Now believe it is 2 separate Suffolk branches of CHAPLIN s
However Caroline Ann need Bradford was a paid pianist for silent films
I know about her descendants , not many left.
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possible birth and parents marriage
George W Ketch born Rochford 1925 MMN Thorpe
Dan Ketch married Edith Thorpe 1913 Dewsbury
LM
Ah OK. So the Ketch/Thorpe children may well have been Albert’s nephews/nieces, rather than his offspring (he had a brother named Dan).
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Can you explain again why you think that is the right Albert Ketch please
I wonder if he can be found between 1911 and 1939 on any electoral rolls or army to link with known places
Have a lovery photo of him and Caroline Chaplin ....I think he looks more like her son Eric than Alfred Thomas does .
Just a theory .....maybe he was biological father of last 2 children but they registered in Chaplin name cos still married .
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If I'm not allowed to post pics from. Ancestry I. ll delete these pic of Albert Ketch and Caroline Ann Chaplin at beach and young Eric Chaplin
Ooh can't attach in.quick reply format
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https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/117020831/person/152015940271/media/a43b0c1e-225c-45cd-96a4-dc52f0954a25?_phsrc=jHQ675&usePUBJs=true
Caroline Ann nee.Bradford and Albert Ketch
Is that too big ?
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And heres some of Eric ..his wedding day and as telegraph boy
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/117020831/person/150164909814/gallery
Pic of his bio father Alfred Thomas Chaplin is on the other thread
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Louise posted on other thread that Albert was living with other people's households in the 1920.s
But the children had him as a father figure from early age ....maybexcept not Ivy as she was 5 years older
My theory was that AlBert Ketch could have fathered the eldeSt or middle child while Arthur Thomas Chaplin was at war
Discharged September 1919
Regarding Southend. ...Eric was summoned by Albert Ketch s brother
To collect possessions after his death. ..no furniture involved which implies he didn't have any children of his own living in GB
I also found an elderly Dan Ketch in 1939 Southend register
A family name ?
So it looks as if Annette Ketches are correct ..yippee
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Looks as if Albert and Caroline set up home together circa 1935, prior to the Albert seems to be in a house with a lot of people, none recognizable to the name we have here
Louisa Maud
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Ivy C married 1940 at Hendon to Frank W Shepopard
I think on one of the ER's I posted the names of Mr and Mrs Sheppard came up, so I think found who they were, possibly 1945 but they married in 1941
You must be gathering up a really nice family tree here
The children won't be listed till they are 21 on ER'S
Louisa Maud
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2 Marriages
Dan Ketch 1937 to Agnes D Eaton Rochford
Dan Ketch 1961 to Agnes Gregory Southend
1 death
Dan Ketch born 1894 died 1970 Southend
LM
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People wanting to help who may have other sources but don't have a valid Ancestry subscription can't open the links you posted and the tree is private.
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Dates of birth on death certificates are informant driven and notoriously wrong.
Until quite recently there was little importance on an actual and documented date of birth. The introduction of NHS services and the provision of a state paid old age pension has been responsible for those changes.
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Thanks dawn
I will change privacy settings
Tho couldn't change tree name .
I don't know how to copy or paste or put the photos on in a different way
Feel free to do that if you can .
Everything technical takes me 5 x as long as most people
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Elderly Dan Ketch on 1939 # in reply 39
Was NOT 95 but born 1895
So Albert .brothere
Also found a brother ? William on a census same birth year a Albert could this be his middle name and explaining why were not finding marriages. ?
Or a Twin ?
I wish I could find details on electoral rolls as quickly as you do ...is it because I'm using Ancestry to search and don't know areas of London and middle Essex .?
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Caroline Ann CHAPLIN b Bradford was common law wife or partner of
Albert KETCH .
when did she start to live with Albert ?
Story from.my sister
"Her father Thomas was a hansom cab driver and she told me at the age of 98 (when she lived with Eric & Margaret) that she rode on his cab as a girl.
This part I know because I was there:
She died on 23 November 1992 in Epsom, Surrey, at the age of 99, only four months short of receiving a telegram from the Queen.
She wept every so often because all her friends had already died. She came round to our house not long before she died and played our piano spontaneously, just as perfectly as when she worked at the cinema. That time I wept."
She sounds a lovely lady