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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Stephen K on Monday 25 June 18 11:53 BST (UK)
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First of all, apologies if this is the wrong place to post this question but I thought it the most suitable.
I have traced my 2x Gt grandfather to Bermondsey in Surrey where he got married in Oct. 1855. The marriage certificate shows his father James was from Co. Kilkenny in Ireland. It would appear that the Kennedys migrated to London during the Irish potato famine. Unfortunately the marriage cert. does not identify what part of Kilkenny he was from. Being Irish Catholics it would be very unlikely that John was an only child but unfortunately I don't have the names of any siblings. Can anyone suggest how I might go about trying to trace siblings? They could have been born in either Kilkenny or Bermondsey or indeed both places.
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Stephen -- from the census records you have found for John Kennedy - was he born in Ireland?
Just for info there are Irish RC Parish Registers on both Find My Past and Ancestry and Family Search -- but Kennedy is SUCH a common name and without knowing the townland it is difficult to know who is the correct Kennedy!
Sometimes -- if you follow the person through all the census records the name of the parish of birth may just have slipped out!
For instance have you found John in 1851, hopefully with his family?
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Is this the family in 1851?
HO107; Piece: 1561; Folio: 263; Page: 28
Bermondsey
James and Mary were born Ireland, but all the children were born Bermondsey
James Kennedy 50 Labourer (in hospital? )
Mary Kennedy 40
Thomas Kennedy 16
John Kennedy 14
Ann Kennedy 9
Jane Kennedy 8 Mo
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Well found Groom - looks likely.
In which case in 1841 they were in Southwark - St Olave Parish, Surrey, maybe;
James aged 40
Mary aged 30
Mary aged 8
Thomas aged 6
John aged 4
James and Mary born Ireland - the children shown as born in County.
For the 2 younger girls (Ann and Jane) shown in 1851 - I am struggling to find a birth reg with the same mother's maiden name at the moment. The youngest was only 8 months so should have been born in 1850 -- there are some - but I cannot see an 'Ann' born with the same mother's maiden name at the moment.
If James and Mary married in Ireland (and they may not have) -- it would be easier to find a marriage and location if we had Mary's surname.
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The problem is that they were born when although registration had been introduced, a lot of people still believed that baptism was the same thing and didn't register their children.
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Yes -- I agree.
They were Irish as well so may not have understood, as Civil Reg hadn't started in Ireland when they must have left that country.
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:-\
Is this the same John Kennedy - a married lodger
6 Victory Place
1861 323/107/27
John Kennedy 26 yrs Feltmaker b Ireland
The next entry at number 5 Victory Place is
James Kennedy 20 yrs married Labourer b Ireland
Ann 24 yrs b Ireland
Stephen,
Are the details you have re marriage from the church record?
Do the witness names, and addresses help at all?
What is the father’s occupation?
Heywood
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From this earlier thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=788008.
This is more like your John, I think.
1861 1049/56/25
Married to Allin (Ellen?) and living in Wisbech, Cambridge
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Thank you, everyone, for your help. What I know is that John was born in Co. Kilkenny Ireland. He Married Ellen Crowley ( written in 1861 census as Aillin). Ellen was born in Co. Cork Ireland. No mention of any town or townland. Both John's father James and Ellen's father Jeremiah are described in John & Ellen's marriage cert as Master Shoemakers and John's occupation as a railway labourer. Incidentally Pennines in Griffith's valuation of Ireland it is identified that 35% of people named Kennedy living in Ireland lived in the neighbouring counties of Tipperary, Limerick & Kilkenny which is why my quest is proving difficult. I am hoping to identify some of John's siblings in the hope that their bmd certs might give a town of origin for their parents.
Groom, I don't think this is the right family. Although St. Olave Parish is correct. John's parents were James & Elizabeth & the 1861 census shows both John & Ellen as being born in Kilkenny & Cork. Civil registration didn't start in Ireland until 1864. I have both civil & church records but the witnesses names are neither Kennedy or Crowley.
Heywood the Kennedys living in Wisbech are my family, however, this is my gt grandparents. it is this James' aunts & uncles I am trying to identify.
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Thanks Stephen.
If John was born in Kilkenny around 1835, you will only find him and his siblings in parish records as Irish registration did not begin until 1864.
You would then need a parish to search :-\
Are the witnesses to the marriage any help? Were they Irish?
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I have just checked the Roots Ireland website (subscription site -- being a nerd I have a sub) -- there are several records coming up for a John Kennedy b 1830-1835 in Kilkenny with a father James.
However in 1830 in Johnstown, Kilkenny, there is one transcribed record with father James Kenedy and mother Elizabeth Macevoy. Note states mother's name given as Betty. I will check to see if this James and Elizabeth (Betty) - have any more children's baptisms recorded.
(The other results have a different mother's name.)
This record may be amongst the RC baptisms on Ancestry/Find My Past -- but note the spellings of Kenedy and Macevoy -- although they could well have been transcribed differently on different sites.
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Thanks Heywood. I know nothing about the witnesses other than their names, none of which are any names in my family. And yes I know about Parish Records but as I don't know what parish I don't know which one to look at. Kennedy is a very common name in Kilkenny so just searching parish records would not help me in identifying the right John Kennedy.
Thanks, Pennines. I wonder could this be them? There is a betty in the family & this could have been called after her grandmother but then again Elizabeth (Betty) was a popular name at the time. I await hearing from you.
Thank You.
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That birth was suggested in your previous thread but no other information.
I was wondering if the witnesses could be seen in censuses - they too might have come from the same area - long shot but sometimes happens.
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Hi Stephen,
Using a wide range of dates 1820 - 1845 I can only find the following children born to James Kenedy and Elizabeth Macevoy in Kilkenny. In each case mother is shown as Elizabeth in the transcription - but there is a note saying 'mother shown as Betty'.
All 3 are in Johnstown -- and all shown as Kenedy.
29.4.1829 William Kenedy (one of the sponsors was a Bridget Macevoy - maybe a sister of Elizabeth)
16. 7.1830 John Kenedy
30.3 1833 William Kenedy (so William number 1 must have died. There is no burial record for him on this site).
Strange that there are only 3 children born. Also I could not see a marriage in Kilkenny between a James Kenedy and an Elizabeth or Betty Macevoy -- widened the search to all of Ireland -- still nothing unless I'm missing it.
Under the Irish naming patterns -- this suggests William may be the name of James's father -- UNLESS there were earlier children not recorded on this site. It may be worth searching the RC records on Ancestry or Find My Past -- as well, all these 3 were baptised in Johnstown, but that doesn't mean the family always lived there --- and it might not be the right couple either!
Irish research is SO frustrating!
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Hi Im looking for anything related to a John Kennedy believed to be from Johnstown born in 1814.
He enlisted in the army in Liverpool 15 January 1836.
Many thanks, Mark