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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Rosinish on Wednesday 27 June 18 15:01 BST (UK)
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Hi folks,
Looking for any clues/ideas to this anomily?
1st column (bottom entry)…
My interest is only in finding out about this name as I’m working on this line (a new one) & I have a lot of research ahead which I’m enjoying but this is a huge mystery.
Julius Shunpilder Cunningham b 1888 Slamannan, Stirling, Scotland
What I’m wondering/hoping is whether there may have been a slight error on the index i.e. the name ‘SHUNPILDer’ being something a little different to what it looks?
I have checked over the doc for letter comparison & the only thing which looked slightly out was the ‘d’ which I’d thought may have been ‘st’ but looks nothing like the others i.e. has to be a ‘d’.
I have scoured the ‘net’ & can find absolutely nothing in relation to the name/word in any context.
I feel I’m trying to fit square pegs into round holes as the maiden name of Julius’ g/mother was SHAW i.e. been trying to make this fit for the beginning but at a complete loss as to the rest as even at a push (which it is), the 5th letter is not a capital letter & it does look like ‘Shunpilder’!
Any ideas on where the name was derived from would be greatly appreciated!
Annie
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It does look like Shunpilder, Annie. There's nothing on Google - nearest is Shunpike.
Have you followed the family back or are there maybe any families in the area that might link to the name :-\
Gadget
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Gadget,
I found exactly the same i.e. zilch!
Going further back, I'm still working on the parents of Julius & their background but thought I'd throw this in for ideas as it's got me baffled!
I had wondered if it may have had something to do with some sort of employment term, actually any light on it at all :-\
This is my wee grandson's line, only started last week i.e. early days & exciting ;D
Annie
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Ancestry surnames suggest Bilder (?Jewish).
I was wondering if there were any 'famous' locals/nationals called Julius <something that sounded like Shunpilder> around that time.
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Have you looked at the 1913 Buckhaven wedding to Mary Ward for a possible confirmation of the middle name??
Malky
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I think this has to be one of the strangest names ever & I've seen many although not my own lines but it does raise a smile, certainly did when I saw it!
This chap went 'AWOL' (story from other g/mother) so this one could be very interesting!
From what I've looked at so far, he doesn't use even the initial 'S' for his middle name on anything, I wonder why ::)
Annie
Edit to add, Yes Malky, I have the marriage, he also joined the Army (3 yrs Short Service) & doesn't ever use anything apart from Julius!
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His RN was 11886 and declared unfit for duties after 45 days. Ancestry has a few pages about him in their Army records.
Malky
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Malky,
I have all the pages, not had time to read through everything yet but the name is my query only at this time as I've a lot of research still to do as it's a new venture.
The name 'Shunpilder' doesn't appear anywhere else (to my knowledge) from what I've researched to date (well in the last week) ;)
Annie
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"I have all the pages, not had time to read through everything yet but the name is my query only at this time as I've a lot of research still to do as it's a new venture."
I will leave it to you then.
Malky
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How about Shunfielder? Perhaps someone's attempt to phonetically write the name Schoenfelder?
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Malky,
Sorry, maybe the way I worded it wasn't correct?
I have been concentrating more on Julius & his name on docs. & haven't got everything typed into my FTM as there's a lot I've found in a short time.
I will however be back with a query on his whereabouts when he goes 'AWOL' once I have a 'timeline' done as I couldn't find a death in Scotland or over the border.
He may have had a name change? as I know his mother remarried so I've a few things to look into. at this early stage.
Got to go out now sadly but thanks for your help!
Annie
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How about Shunfielder? Perhaps someone's attempt to phonetically write the name Schoenfelder?
Thanks Erato, will give that a good consideration but must fly for now!
Annie
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Annie, I don’t know where this might lead you, but…
in the 1901 census Julius is with his 4 older brothers, described as boarders in the home of Thomas and Jane Baird at Wellgate St, Larkhall, Lanarkshire. What is interesting is the last resident in the household: a Thomas SHONFIELD, described as a 48 year-old coalminer and a “Relative (other relative)” of the Bairds.
Peter
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Schon bilder translates to nice pictures. A nick name for an artist?
Or perhaps someone with a sense of humour thought he'd make life hard for genealogists...
Martin
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Perhaps the reason for this strange name is that there were a lot of immigrants from Lithuania working in the coalmines around this area. Their arrival seems to have begun in the 1870s.
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Perhaps the reason for this strange name is that there were a lot of immigrants from Lithuania working in the coalmines around this area. Their arrival seems to have begun in the 1870s.
A few deaths in Slamannan with surname Schonewille
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1881 Lady Lawson's Wynd, St Georges, Midlothian
Hannes Schonfelder, 34, flesher, b. Germany
Agnes, 23, b. Slamannan
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in the 1901 census Julius is with his 4 older brothers, described as boarders in the home of Thomas and Jane Baird at Wellgate St, Larkhall, Lanarkshire. What is interesting is the last resident in the household: a Thomas SHONFIELD, described as a 48 year-old coalminer and a “Relative (other relative)” of the Bairds.
Ahh, now that's interesting (thank you)! & more so as I have the 1901 census with Julius & siblings but at a closer look there must be 2 pages & I only have the 1st i.e. Thomas Shonfield doesn't show so will go to back to SP for pg 2.
I wonder if there's a connection with that surname as it would seem a very strange coincidence if not even by the way 'Shunpilder' is written, who knows how it came about?
Annie
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Thomas Baird was the 2nd husband of Jane McLuskie (mother of Julius)!
It's amazing how you miss things without realising as that 2nd page would have given me food for thought.
It will be interesting when/if I ever find a connection though!
Annie
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Gadget,
Thank you! I will most definitely be on the look-out for some connection with your post pointing to Slamannan as it does look a good possibility for the future!
Annie
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Annie, it's no problem. No apology necessary. I was only trying to find a distant link, perhaps like a godparent, wedding witness etc.
Malky
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Strangely, the clerk who wrote this has used a long 's' once - in the entry above.
What looks like "Ardlop" is actually Ardloss. So could that long downstroke after 'Shun' actually be an 's'?
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Strangely, the clerk who wrote this has used a long 's' once - in the entry above.
What looks like "Ardlop" is actually Ardloss. So could that long downstroke after 'Shun' actually be an 's'?
I did notice the long 's' & although the place name is Arnloss it looks more like Arnlup/Arnluss as his other 'o's are fully formed e.g. Southfield & George?
I think for now after spending a couple of hrs on SP for possibles, the name (spelling) does seem likely to have derived from Shonfield/Schofield (a few variants)? but whether the pronunciation at the time of recording the birth was to blame I can't work out?
I have a feeling the father was either ill or inebriated when he registered the birth?
I can't work out what his cause of death was (8 mnths later) so another one I need deciphered ::)
Annie
Add...Thomas Shonfield (clear as day) listed on the 1901 census is actually on SP Index as Shoufield!
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I have a feeling the father was either ill or inebriated when he registered the birth?
My great-grandfather was plastered when he registered my grandmother's birth. ::)
She ended up registered under the "wrong" name. Her mum stuck to her guns and so Grandma was always known by a name which didn't appear on her birth cert.
Another little challenge for future generations... ;D
Karen
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We hear some funny stories...
My uncle registered my cousin who was meant to be named Deirdre but he couldn't spell it i.e. she was registered as Dorothy!!! ;D
Annie
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Rosinish - I wasn't drunk when I said it was Ardloss - honest. I stupidly misread the map.
Harry.
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Rosinish - I wasn't drunk when I said it was Ardloss - honest. I stupidly misread the map.
Harry.
Harry...If I had £1 for every error I've made I would be very well off! ;D
We all make mistakes & mostly when in a hurry/trying hard to help others as well as our own research!
My usual thing is forgetting to change search criteria on SP (area/age etc) or putting forename in surname box...we all do it! ;)
Annie
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Thanks to all for your input as I now have a few things to explore at a later date.
I feel sure there's a connection with the German chaps, thanks to Malky & Gadget!
Annie
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No Shunpilder on Free BMD
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Barry,
I did extensive searches on the name prior to my post i.e. my reason of thinking the name was probably slightly different to what was actually written (spelling) but I couldn't fathom what the name could/should have been...if only I'd noticed there was a 2nd page to the 1901 census, it may have given me an idea?
It's been a good thread with a lot of interest which I didn't expect to be honest & a great help to me!
Thanks for your interest.
Annie
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Hi - I am very new to this this site, but noted the names of people in my family tree in this topic.
I am a great-great granddaughter of JANE McLUSKIE/McCLUSKEY, whose sister AGNES (b.1859) worked in Edinburgh where she met and married a German-born butcher, JULIUS HANNES SCHONFELDER (Marriage in Edinburgh on 16th Feb. 1881). Jane had at least 8 children, one of whom was called JULIUS SCHONFELDER CUNNINGHAM, after his uncle. The young Julius was always known by the nickname “Caesar”. Caesar married Minnie Ward, my grandfather’s sister, and they ‘took in’ my grandfather as a six-year-old when his mother died. He lived with them until he joined up at the beginning of WW1. My grandfather later married Caesar’s niece, further joining the two families.
THOMAS BYERS and JANE BYARS were my grandmother’s sister and brother, children of RBERT COWAN HAWTHORN BYERS and AGNES CUNNINGHAM.
I hope this helps. I have a great deal of information about this tree as my mother died only two years ago in her mid-nineties and left extensive notes on family history.
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Hi T H,
Thanks for your message & welcome to RC! ;)
I can see you're obviously related to my g/son although at this point I don't know the exact relationship.
I only have bits & pieces of the info. you posted in my tree as I'd really only concentrated on the direct Cunningham line.
My g/son is a direct descendant of Julius Schonfelder Cunningham & Mary Ward through their son John Ward Cunningham.
This family is like taking on a clan, there's 1000s of them, a costly affair ;D
Annie