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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: manda_mcd on Saturday 30 June 18 12:44 BST (UK)
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I have the birth certificate of Mary Walker CAMPBELL born 7th Feb 1912 to Alexander CAMPBELL and Margaret M.S COUSINS she was born at the family home 150 Rose street Hutchesontown.
Siblings Alexander CAMPBELL b 26 Feb 1908
and Agnes Smith CAMPBELL b 2 Jan 1911
both of these people were still alive when I was a child and I don't recall any mention ever of their younger sister.
Mary's father died in an accident at work on the railway in 1916 and it is noted he left a widow and three children. This is the last mention of Mary I have been able to find anywhere. We know there were no other siblings born before Mary as the family are listed at 150 Rose street on the census in 1911.
Margaret COUSINS re married my great grandfather Robert MCDOUGALL who was already a widow and they proceeded to have a family together.
I would really like to know what happened to her. I am aware of the surnames TRAN, JACK and PORTERFIELD mentioned when I was younger and having known they were related to uncle Alex (Alexander b 1908) but at that age I didn't query and now can't. This leaves the possibility they are either related through Alexander who died in 1916 or MARY born 1912
any help or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated as I have already spent a fortune on SP .
Regards Amanda
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Have you tried SP for a marriage between a 'M' Campbell & either of "TRAN, JACK and PORTERFIELD" surnames?
Annie
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Yeah I have thanks nothing I am afraid :/
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Was she witness to any of her siblings marriages or possibly immigrated?
Annie
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Hi neither of her siblings married both lived in the same house until Agnes died in 1983 ionly Alexander registered her death very mysterious
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I wonder if she 'lived' with someone i.e. never married & if family were catholic, may not have approved?
It may be worth looking for a death under those surnames &/or deaths of children with those surnames & mother's maiden name Campbell?
Annie
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Will give that a try thanks her siblings weren't catholic but still worth a try thanks
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I haven't found a likely candidate on a passenger list (yet)!
Annie
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This not too far over the border?
Campbell Mary W to Albert R Woodrow S.Shields 10a 1626
Don't see death with middle initial or name?
Annie
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was there any date or other details with that entry? thanks A x
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This not too far over the border?
Campbell Mary W to Albert R Woodrow S.Shields 10a 1626
Don't see death with middle initial or name?
Annie
Annie
Think this is a Mary Winifred Campbell born 1910 South Shields ..name mentioned on probate for Albert Russell Woodrow
Rosie
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Have you checked these deaths on Scotlands people
Mary Campbell age 0 1912 Hutchesontown 644/15 405
Birth for Mary Walker Campbell 1912 Hutchesontown
Also a death for a Mary Campbell aged 1 ..1912 Lanark
Rosie
Sorry just noticed from your post saying she was alive in 1916
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CAMPBELL MARY WALKER ROSS JOHN GEORGE 1950 387/ 81 Perth found this when searching SP earlier will need to wait until I can purchase some more credits to order cert tho x
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Think this is a Mary Winifred Campbell born 1910 South Shields ..name mentioned on probate for Albert Russell Woodrow
Thanks Rosie for eliminating her!
CAMPBELL MARY WALKER ROSS JOHN GEORGE 1950 387/ 81 Perth
I saw that earlier just prior to going out but best check for her death to see if her yr of birth corresponds 1st?
Annie
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Hmm?
CAMPBELL MARY WALKER 76 (b c1909 i.e. not too far out)?
MITCHELL (mmn)
1985
390/ 732
Perth
I wonder if Mitchell could have been mistaken for McInnes which would be down to the informant & what they knew or thought?
Not impossible & if desperate I guess it's worth exploring, just a pity no census when she married to check PoB :-\
Annie
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Husband predeceased her i.e. if she had no children having married later in life her mother's maiden name (if using McInnes) could have been slightly out?
ROSS JOHN GEORGE 70
BELL (mmn)
1984
390/ 167
Perth
Annie
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Of course the marriage would be the one to go for as it would be her own info. if thinking about it?
Annie
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Mary's father died in an accident at work on the railway in 1916 and it is noted he left a widow and three children. This is the last mention of Mary I have been able to find anywhere. We know there were no other siblings born before Mary as the family are listed at 150 Rose street on the census in 1911.
Mary was born 1912 so there were siblings born before her. Do you mean after her?
Are the children actually named in 1916?
If not - between 1913-1916 Margaret could have had another child and it is that child who was the third one mentioned. Reply 11 re death 1912 refers
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Ahh, I see what you mean Carole!
Mary may have died (2 possibles on SP) & another child born after census but prior or just after father's death if mother was with child when hubby died?
Annie
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That 1912 death in Hutchesontown needs to be downloaded even if only to eliminate her. I find it odd that neither of her siblings spoke of her if she lived to adulthood.
It only makes sense if she died as a baby as her brother would only have been 4yrs old and her sister 1yr old
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There's 3 possibles for a Mary!
CAMPBELL MARY 0
1912
644/15 405
Hutchesontown
CAMPBELL MARY 1
1914 (just before she was 2)?
644/15 376
Hutchesontown
CAMPBELL MARY 3
1915
644/15 265
Hutchesontown
Annie
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That 1912 death in Hutchesontown needs to be downloaded even if only to eliminate her. I find it odd that neither of her siblings spoke of her if she lived to adulthood.
It only makes sense if she died as a baby as her brother would only have been 4yrs old and her sister 1yr old
Yes I would agree I would advise checking these deaths also
Rosie
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" Mary's father died in an accident at work on the railway in 1916 and it is noted he left a widow and three children."
Can I just ask if Mary was actually named including her middle name ?
There are 7 births 'Mary Campbell' (some with middle names) Hutchesontown 1912 - 1916
If Mary W did die young then it's quite possible a later child may have been named Mary in her memory, this did happen in families!
We may all have our thoughts wrong but until we know for sure the exact wording regarding 'Mary Walker' we're kind of at a standstill?
We are trying to help! :)
Annie
Add...although I do find it odd, had 'Mary W' died, why her middle name or at least middle initial isn't recorded?
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Thanks to everyone who replied I am unable to download those certificates until tomorrow but I will definitley do so and let you all know what I find Mary was down as mary Walker Campbell on her Birth Certificate Walker was her Paternal grandmothers maiden name her sister was Agnes Smith campbell and Smith being the maternal grandmothers middle name x
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" Mary's father died in an accident at work on the railway in 1916 and it is noted he left a widow and three children."
Can I just ask if Mary was actually named including her middle name ?
There are 7 births 'Mary Campbell' (some with middle names) Hutchesontown 1912 - 1916
If Mary W did die young then it's quite possible a later child may have been named Mary in her memory, this did happen in families!
We may all have our thoughts wrong but until we know for sure the exact wording regarding 'Mary Walker' we're kind of at a standstill?
We are trying to help! :)
Annie
Add...although I do find it odd, had 'Mary W' died, why her middle name or at least middle initial isn't recorded?
None of the children were named only that he left a widow and three children sorry
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Thanks as this helps a bit.
I noticed Agnes Smith Campbell was using the surname McDougall i.e. is it possible Mary did likewise?
Maybe a search under McDougall will bring up something?
There are 2 marriages on SP (Hutchesontown) but no middle initial which could fit but for now I don't have enough time to cross reference with deaths (age fitting) etc?
Maybe someone will have time to check those out?
Annie
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Hi sorry where did you see Agnes using McDougall? I wasn't aware of this?
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Hi sorry where did you see Agnes using McDougall? I wasn't aware of this?
Agnes death is indexed as Campbell and McDougall normally this refers to a married woman giving both her married and maiden names but there is no corresponding marriage on Scotlands people that would fit
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Agnes death is indexed as Campbell and McDougall normally this refers to a married woman giving both her married and maiden names but there is no corresponding marriage on Scotlands people that would fit
Wendy,
There will be no marriage to fit as she never married but the reference to the surname McDougall will be in conjunction with the fact she was/would have been known by her step-father's surname i.e. on her death both surnames were recorded.
Annie
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I've checked out the index for all Mary's with surname Campbell, births in Hutchesontown 1912
Mary
Mary Bisset
Mary McNicoll
Mary Walker
I'm pretty sure I've managed to eliminate Mary Bisset(t) & Mary McNicol (single 'l')
This would leave Mary & Mary Walker but there's no way of telling from the 3 deaths I listed (Reply #20) sorry!
Mothers maiden names were not added to deaths (officially) until 1974 (Scotland) although there are many prior which list the mothers' m/s.
I really agree with Carole & Rosie regarding looking at those deaths if only to eliminate your Mary?
The McDougall ones I checked just don't seem to fit.
I checked passenger lists too but nothing coming up for Campbell or McDougall which would fit.
If your Mary did die young/in infancy, I'm surprised her full name (i.e. Walker) isn't attached but we don't know who may have registered it if either of those are your Mary?
Annie
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Hi sorry I hadn't been aware of Agnes ever using McDougall however I was only 6 years old when she died I am just gonna check the entries for Mary just now
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The Mary Campbell died in 1915 aged 3 was infact her ladies thanks
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Good news although sad!
This will now answer the question as to why she was never spoken of sadly as her siblings would probably have had no memory of her existence?
This is the entry for Agnes...
MCDOUGALL AGNES SMITH 72
COUSINS (mms)
1983
601/ 389 Glasgow, Martha St
As you've already paid for the entry under Campbell this will be free to view.
Annie
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The Mary Campbell died in 1915 aged 3 was infact her ladies thanks
That's good you found her ....You done a lot of work there Annie :)
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You done a lot of work there Annie :)
Yes Rosie & still came up with nothing positive ;D
If only they'd used her middle initial ::)
Annie
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You done a lot of work there Annie :)
If only they'd used her middle initial ::)
Yes would have made it a lot easier ::)
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Annie thanks to your hard work I was able to narrow it down and draw a conclusion without spending a small fortune its appreciated greatly thanks to everyone who helped x
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It's our hobby & I've had plenty of help myself on RC but it's good when it's a combined effort as this was.
I see Alexander also used the McDougall surname
MCDOUGALL ALEXANDER 91
COUSINS
1999
610/ 533 Glasgow, Martha St
Annie
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strangely enough I had no idea and I was an adult when he passed away :O thanks again x
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Alexander & Agnes were probably brought up using their mother's new married name i.e. school, doctor. dentist to keep everything simple.
In later life when filling in docs. there are questions such as 'have you been known by any other name/surname'.
Those details e.g. when claiming state pension had probably been recorded from the 1939 register or somewhere so even if not actively using the surname McDougall by then, it was a name they'd been known by in the past i.e. recorded on their deaths.
Annie
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Thanks Annie