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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Angel-Rae on Sunday 01 July 18 10:12 BST (UK)
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Hi. I am new here I’ve recently started researching my Dutch and German ancestors. I would really appreciate some help from anyone familiar with German documents. I have translated most of it however I cannot work out the occupations of my great great grandfather Ernst Richard Bürger or the occupation of his father-in-law. I think it is possible that Ernst Bürger senior may have had a job in the church “kirchendiener”. I have searched on many websites listing old German professions but can’t seem to find these if I have translated them correctly. I think Heinrich Schwertfeger was a Natthaltau/er/ar and Ernst Richard Bürger (the groom) was maybe an obertallnar/er/au. Thank you!
(http://i65.tinypic.com/23vddg0.jpg)
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat! :)
I agree: Ernst was a Kirchendiener (sexton, churchwarden).
I was a bit thrown by the "e" (x3) in Ernst Richard's occupation, as it has to be Ober-something (but looks like Obar...), but if we take the letter which look like "a" as indeed being "e", we end up (possibly) with Oberkellner: Head Waiter. The "k" is not perfect, but it's a possibility.
Heinrich is causing me a problem: It looks like something-halter (somebody who keeps something; Schafhalter, for example, would be keeper of sheep, i.e. sheep farmer.)
Or something-falter (folder of something), which is not absolutely out of the question, as we have no idea what he did..! ::))
I'll keep thinking about it and we can see what the other RCs come up with. ;D
Best regards,
Karen
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Thank you Karen! I certainly considered Kellner but it was different to the other k’s in the document. It seems to be the most likely though, since I can’t find anything like tallner or ballner and it seems like the kind of job a young groom to be might have. Do you think the word before halter/ falter is Natt? Looking at The examples of scripts from that time it looks like an N or possibly an ST. I think that is a double TT at the end so it could be statt. There is an N at the beginning of Niederhannsdorf which is different from the more old fashioned N. Thank you for putting your time in to thinking about this.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/ayug6o.jpg)
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"St" would indeed make sense: Statthalter = some kind of governor.
It's Niederhermsdorf, by the way, just in case you are looking for the town. :)
Karen
in Wolfenbüttel
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Thank you! I’ve been researching the wrong town so I really appreciate you pointing that out. Since Niederhermsdorf is near Dresden in Germany and not in what is now Poland, I think this will make things easier.
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Hi Angel-Rae
A Statthalter is a person who works as foreman for a tenant/farmer.
There are quite a few Niederhermsdorf about, also one in what is now Poland.
Regards Peonie
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Thank you for that information. That clears up the mystery. I have a note from my great uncle, his grandson that Ernst Richard was born near Kesseldorf so Karen is correct! I didn’t realise that Kesseldorf wasn’t near the other town. Thank you so much for your help.
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Karen is right in saying,
A Statthalter was a governor or administrator who was a representative of a higher authority.
Dave
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In the almanac of the Mecklenburg history society from 1908
http://mvdok.lbmv.de/mjbrenderer?id=mvdok_document_00003410
you will find a
Schwerdtfeger , Hofrat, Ministerialsekretär, Schwerin 1882
Schwerdtfeger , counsellor, senior Legal Secretary
i am not saying this is your Schwerdtfeger, but this could be a typical example of a Statthalter
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Peonie is also right in saying that a Statthalter was person who worked as a foreman for a local squire.
It all boils down to the fact that a Statthalter was a representative for a higher authority
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Thank you davecapps! I wonder if it could be my guy? It would be cool if it was. The time frame and area are correct. Anna was born in 1878 in Groß-Dratow so her father could have been there doing that job.
I’m very curious about both of these strands of the family tree. I don’t know much about my German ancestry, the family was always very focused on being Dutch. I have the Dutch line back to the 1770’s which goes back through Anna Georgine and Ernst Richard’s daughter’s (my dear great-grandmother’s) husband. He was Dutch and they were more interested in the Dutch side, because that was their family name.
Ernst and Anna relocated to Netherlands at the turn of the last century. Do any of you know if there was a common reason for migrating from Germany to the Netherlands? I imagine they either knew the language or had to learn it. Or could Schwer(d)tfeger and Bürger be Dutch names? They sound German to me.
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1) Schwerdtfeger and Bürger are German names.
2) on Anna´s marriage certificate her father is stated as Heinrich. On her confirmation certificate he is stated as Friedrich. So he has 2 names, possibly 3, quite common those days.
3) In both certificates his profession is Statthalter. Groß Dratow has always been a rural, aricultural based region so i think he was a charge hand or foreman on an agricultural estate,
4) look at this site, http://www.emecklenburg.de/ enter Statthalter in the field „schnellsuche“ and hit „go“ scroll down the page and you will see
„Oberster Tagelöhner auf einem Gut“ something like „senior day labourer on an estate“
5) this site is also available in English, http://www.emecklenburg.de/Mecklenburg/en/index.htm
Dave
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Thank you so much for your help! This is all great information.
I appreciate the German and Dutch custom of giving children three names. I have found it easier to find them, even with the fact that they were sometimes known as the second name.
The German records are also very detailed and were obviously arranged in a way to identify the people in them easily. Adding the parents names to the marriage certificates and so often including the maiden name of the mother is very useful. These records were made with the future in mind perhaps.
Thank you again everyone I will now attempt to give this topic the green tick.