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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: Suzy W on Monday 02 July 18 01:45 BST (UK)
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Gavin Mowat born 1857 in Canisbay. Looks like he was in Edinburgh 1881 onwards.
Would love details of any census results from 1881 onwards.
Thanks
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Can you please add any more details you have please?
Where was he prior to 1881 & who with?
Who were his parents?
What was his occupation?
Was he married/who was his wife?
Did he have children/what were their names?
Where was 'Canisbay'?...This helps people who don't have geographical knowledge of all areas as well as others researching your family to relate to.
Was it Canisbay, Caithness or an area elsewhere?
A needle in a haystack without more info. I'm afraid ;D
Annie
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Hi Annie, I was going to ask similar questions. :)
I see there are four Gavin Mowats in the 1881 Scotland census. None of them are born 1857. One born 1809 Canisbay may be of interest though?
Note: I have not checked alternative spellings as yet, nor have I checked other censuses.
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I have found a Gavin Mowatt lodging in Edinburgh with a Steedman family in 1881. This one is aged 26 and is a railway porter. Address is 11 West Adam St.
Do you already have this information?
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He is at the same address in the 1891 census - railway porter aged 36, with wife Catherine aged 34 born "Ross, Loch Alsh", children Gavin 5 and Marion 2.
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Gavin Mowat born 1857 in Canisbay. Looks like he was in Edinburgh 1881 onwards.
Would love details of any census results from 1881 onwards.
Thanks
Do you know for sure he was born 1857?
Ruskie's info. is interesting (b approx. 1855) as an 1855 cert. for Scotland is a gem, full of plenty info!
Ruskie, where was his PoB on the 1881?
Annie
Add, cross posts there Ruskie ;)
1881 he's 26 & 1891 he's 16 ???
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born Canisbay Annie. :)
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Ruskie, Thanks but...
Can you please read my last post as I edited it?
Annie
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1901 he is 48, a railway servant b Freswick Caithness. Wife Katherine 44 b "Conchan" Ross-shire.
Children Gavin 15, John 11, Donald Mowat, 19 (lodger, railway servant) and Katherine Mowat, 23 visito,r Domestic Servant. Last two look like relatives. Both born "Obrig" Caithness....
Address: 4 Brunswick Road Edinburgh
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Ruskie, Thanks but...
Can you please read my last post as I edited it?
Annie
Yes sorry Annie - typo (I have amended Gavin's age) :-[ :)
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Born 26 Sep 1857 Canisbay, Caithness. Parents are James Mowat and mother Jacobina Lyall Sometimes recorded as Benjamina.
All I can see is that he may of ended up in Edinburgh, before in 1871 a farm hand in Watten, Caithness.
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A Gavin Mowat married a Catherine Mowat in 1882 in Newington District .... :-\
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Sorry folks...CC...Comp Crash ::)
Possible death on SP (scotlandspeople)?
MOWAT GAVIN 65 (b c 1853 so not a bad fit)
1918
685/4 698
St Giles (Edinburgh)
Annie
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Annie, looking at the names of Gavin's parent's on the b/c Suzy has, do you think it seems slightly unusual for them not to name any of their children James or Jacobina/Benjamina? :-\ Not a deal breaker but .... :-\
There are a couple of other Gavin Mowats around the place.
Suzy, what led you to Gavin Mowat? Are you sure that the b/c you have is the right Gavin Mowat?
Added: Annie, that death looks to fit the Gavin on the censuses. Suzy, if you want the 1911 census you will have to use some SP credits to view it.
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Annie, looking at the names of Gavin's parent's on the b/c Suzy has, do you think it seems slightly unusual for them not to name any of their children James or Jacobina/Benjamina? :-\ Not a deal breaker but .... :-\
Ruskie, it is odd & as it's post statutory records, there should be no problem finding those names even if they died young.
I'm having probs with comp, RC updates at this time & so is my comp!
Can we get a wee timeline please of names & dates on census' to work out whether any births may be missing (with parents names) i.e. any unusual gaps?
Annie
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"Suzy, what led you to Gavin Mowat? Are you sure that the b/c you have is the right Gavin Mowat?"
I would like to ask the same question?
If your info. is from a marriage of a child, does the info. fit with occ?
Annie
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Birth of son?
MOWAT GAVIN 1885
685/3 820
Canongate (Edinburgh)
Annie
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RC posts have been slow for me this morning too.
Hopefully Suzy can fill us in with a few more details. The Gavin Mowat b 1809 in Canisbay is making me wonder ... though there is at least one more from Caithness.
I have to pop out now but will be back later. :)
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This one has almost the correct names but date way out ???
Death...
MOUATT JEMIMA CATHERIN 13 (b c 1876)
1889
685/4 407
St Giles
Annie
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Didn't think Gavin would cause such a fuss ;) 1871 he is found as a farm servant living in Caithness with the Finlayson family. I looked at freecen and could not find him after that date.
What made me think he was in Edinburgh was those lovely little ancestry hints :) Which could also be throwing me.
1881 should show if he was from Canisbay, Caithness or not.
Quite right about naming pattern, his grandfather was Benjamin Lyall, Grandmother Elizabeth Simpson. Siblings, John, Elizabeth, Benjamin, Helen, Mary and James. Father James Mowat and mother Jacobina/Benjamina Lyall.
I wouldn't know where Gavin came in as a name, most likely via his father's Mowat side.
Just trying to track all the children of Jacobinas and James to tidy away a few loose ends with my Lyall family.
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Yes Suzy, the 1881 census says he is from Canisbay. Apologies I neglected to mention that earlier in my reply #3.
So you have his birth with parents James and Jacobina/Benjamins? (why such different forenames?)
If I were you I would purchase his marriage certificate and death certificate to compare parent's names. At least then you will know if you are following the same Gavin.
Can I ask again what led you to this particular Gavin? How sure are you that the farm servant Gavin is the right one? Have you looked for deaths in the area in case that Gavin did not go off to Edinburgh?
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Both born "Obrig" Caithness....
Looks like a misreading/mistranscription of Olrig.
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Jacobina Lyall, 09 May 1819; citing , reference , index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 990,520, 844,777. parents Benjamin Lyall and Elizabeth Simpson
James Mowat and Jacobina Lyall, 23 Dec 1842; citing Canisbay,Caithness,Scotland, index based upon data collected by the Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 990,52
1851 states Jacobina, 1861 states Benjamina and then back to Jacobina by 1871. She may of gone by her fathers name, or just a miss print in 1861.
I do see another Gavin born 1853 to Gavin Mowat and Janet Henderson in Caithness, so I wonder if that is him in Edinburgh and not my Gavin?
I haven't found any deaths at this point, if so it will be between 1861 and 1871 in Canisbay.
I guess that will narrow hunting down quite a bit.
Thanks
Suzy W
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Annie found a death at her reply #12.
Depending on accuracy of dates, this one might be the 1853 one you found with parents Gavin and Janet. :-\
Might be worth using some credits to view it if only to eliminate him and sort out the Gavins. :)
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Children (Mother recorded as Benjamina on all pre 1855)
John 1843
Elizabeth 1847
Benjamin 1848
Helen 1851
Mary 1854
Annie
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I do see another Gavin born 1853 to Gavin Mowat and Janet Henderson in Caithness, so I wonder if that is him in Edinburgh and not my Gavin?
Either way it's difficult to work out as the names of children on the census' Ruskie found, don't link to the names of their parents.
Possible births?
MOWAT GAVIN 1885
685/3 820 Canongate
MOUATT MARION 1886 (although doesn’t fit age on 1891 census)?
685/3 855 Canongate
MOWATT JOHN 1893
685/3 1173 Canongate
The marriage Ruskie found will give both sets of parents as I doubt there's any other way to work it out?
MOWAT GAVIN & MOWAT CATHERINE 1882
685/5 170 Newington
Furthermore, there are a lot of Mowat (with variants) children born in same area with surnames as middle names, would be good to know the forename & m/s of Catherine’s mother, providing they're the correct couple?
Then the 1911 will tell you how many children they had & how many were still living as there seems to be a big gap when you consider the norm of the time?
Annie
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I agree Annie. I would say it is definitely time to buy some credits at SP. :)
I am still interested to know what led Suzy to Gavin. (eg. was a Gavin Mowat named as a father on his child's marriage or d/c? If so was the mother named too? Was she Catherine? ....)
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I wonder too how Gavin was arrived at apart from his birth cert?
Will throw this in the mix for good measure...
Birth (unsure who’s child but surely related)?
MOWAT CATHERINE LYALL 1907
685/3 317 Canongate
Marriage
MOWAT CATHERINE LYALL & CHALMERS DAVID 1930
685/3 362 Canongate
Death
MOWAT/Chalmers CATHERINE 45
1952
685/2 442 St Andrew (Edinburgh)
Annie
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She must connect to the family somewhere Annie.
The Edinburgh connection may add weight to the Gavin moving to Edinburgh being Suzy's.
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A Gavin Mowat married a Catherine Mowat in 1882 in Newington District .... :-\
Annie, whereabouts is Newington? :-\
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Those darn Ancestry hints threw me towards Gavin in Edinburgh. ;) As I didn't know where he went after 1861 and a possible Gavin in 1871 as a farm servant, I put his name in, and the hint took me to this one in Edinburgh. Ran out of credits so asked for help to see if Gavin in Edinburgh was the same one as Caithness, now we have two Gavins to mill over. ;D both coming from Caithness and both born within a few short years apart.
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Newington is Edinburgh around the areas we're concentrating on here with census' & births.
Annie
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Familysearch is throwing up a few Catherine Mowat/t births which may fit.
The only way forward on both of those lines is to buy the marriage certificate IF your Gavin married Catherine. If this is not your Gavin, then you will still be following the wrong Gavin ....
I would suggest ignoring the "hints" and starting again on this branch. Start from yourself or from the last definite document you are certain about for this line, and work back methodically. :-\
Added: Thanks Annie.
Added: Suzy. How do you know the 1861 farm servant is your Gavin? :-\ When single men and women are working away from home it can be difficult to know if you have the right one.
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Surely another connection?
1851
MOWAT JACOBINA 15
685/2 162/ 1
St Cuthbert's, Midlothian
Annie
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I have found something which may muddy the waters even more.
I looked for Gavin farm servant in the 1871 census and found him - age 17 b Canisbay living with the Finlayson family.
I also found the following in the 1871 census:
address: Freswick GA School House
Benjamina L Mowatt Mariner and Fisherman's wife
Benjamin 22
Mary 16
Gavin SON 12 b Canisbay
James 10
Farm hand Gavin IS NOT the child of James and Benjamina.
So the question is - which (if either) of these is your Gavin?
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Looking on the 1861 census we have:
Gavin Mowat
parents Gavin and Janet b abt 1853 Canisbay, Caithness Son b Canisbay Caithness
Gavin Mowat
parents John and Christina b abt 1855 Canisbay, Caithness Son b Canisbay Caithness
Gavin Mowat
parents James and Benjamina b abt 1858 Canisbay, Caithness Son b Canisbay Caithness
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Ruskie...
Put your spade away!!!
You're doing well collecting those Gavins but leaving more questions than answers ;D
Annie
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MOWAT GAVIN
GAVIN MOWAT/JANET HENDERSON
03/11/1853
035/20 156 Canisbay
Annie
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I'm still digging I'm afraid Annie ..... ;D
In the 1871 census, Benjamina Mowat and children including a 12 year old son Gavin, are living at Freswick GA School House.
In the 1861 census, Gavin Mowat (father), Janet Henderson and children including an 8 year old Gavin are living at Freswick GA School House.
In the 1861, John, Christina and family's address is "Freswick"
Same with James and Benjamina.
All heads of household are fishermen.
You may find that Gavin Mowat (snr), John Mowat and James Mowat are brothers, hence the same occupations, same addresses and choice of "Gavin" as a son's name.
Freswick is around three miles from Canisbay. I just had a look around on google street view - WOW! I wonder if the family members were long lived - with all that fresh air, exercise and fish to eat. ;) :)
You really need to invest in some SP credits Suzy ..... :)
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I wonder if this is the Freswick School House:
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74426565
(why would a fisherman and his family be living in a school house?) :-\
The location tallies with this:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mb2/
(it looks a bit sad and sorry)
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Ruskie,
I checked out the maps as well as VRs on SP.
My interpretation is there were 3 different schools/school houses, each with land/farms/farm houses with each farmhouse having a name rather than a number & all in close proximity?
Here's an example;
MOWAT WILLIAM Occupier
SOCIETY SCHOOL MASTER HOUSE AND CROFT STROMA, CANISBAY
1855
VR009400001-
Now from knowing the surname of Janet Henderson married to Gavin Mowat, I found this;
Birth
MOWATT JANET HENDERSON 1893
685/3 1172 Canongate
It seems to me there may have been a few of the family ended up in Edinburgh but still no way of knowing which Gavin married Catherine as there are no clues from the names of their children (as yet)?
Annie
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This may eliminate 1 of the Gavins?
Death
MOWAT GAVIN 15 (b c1855)
CORBETT (mms)
1870
035/ 10 Canisbay
From what we know & from Ruskie's census' finds (all with a son named Gavin of similar ages in terms), we have...
James Mowat & Benjamina Lyall
Gavin Mowat & Janet Henderson
John Mowat & Christina (could her m/s be Corbett)?
This would eliminate the death above not being the son of James & Benjamina but...
Can you please explain how you arrived at the Gavin you have being a relative & son of James & Benjamina i.e. what sources took you there?
Annie
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The surname Corbett rings a bell Annie, but of course I can't recall where I saw it. ::)
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Here they are;
MOWAT JOHN & CHRISTIAN CORBET 01/10/1852
035/20 223 Canisbay
That will leave at least one of 2 possible Gavins in Edinburgh with no way of knowing which is which?
Annie
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Here they are;
MOWAT JOHN & CHRISTIAN CORBET 01/10/1852
035/20 223 Canisbay
That will leave at least one of 2 possible Gavins in Edinburgh with no way of knowing which is which?
Annie
That looks to be the case.
Suzy needs another clue to work out which one is her Gavin. Occupation? Address? ....
I don't know how Suzy got to Gavin in Edinburgh. Is one of his children her ancestor? What is this ancestor's name? Does she know who her Gavin married? Does she have this ancestor's birth certificate naming parents as Gavin and X?
:-\
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MARRIAGE
2nd june 1882
Glenord Villa, Spylaw Rd, Edinburgh
after banns
Gavin Mowat age 27 warehouseman
West Adam St, Edinburgh
father: Gavin Mowat, fisherman
mother: Jessie Henderson
Catherine Mowat age 25 domestic servant
Glenord Villa, Spylaw Rd, Edinburgh
father: William Mowat farm steward
mother: Mary Ann Campbell
witnesses: William Stewart and Jessie Cornack
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.... looking on Familysearch there are birth of two Gavins with parents Gavin and Janet Henderson. One b 14 Jan 1844 chr 25 Jan 1844. Obviously died.
Another Gavin with same parents b 18 Jul 1853 chr 3 Nov 1853.
Suzy, is your Gavin the one who went to Edinburgh and married Catherine, or is your Gavin the one with father James and mother Benjamina/Jacobina?
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Ruskie,
A couple of minutes too late as I was looking at a tree while you were looking at the marriage ;)
Found this...
Gavin Mowat
1858–1876
DEATH 22 NOV 1876 Freswick, Caithness, Scotland
Annie
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Something doesn't fit, maybe a typo?
Death
MOWAT GAVIN 1875
036/ 16 Dunnet
Ooops, made an error...
Death
MOWAT GAVIN 18
1876
035/ 48 Canisbay
The one I posted was a birth!
Forgot to change my search criteria ::) ;D
Annie
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I wonder if 1876 Freswick death Gavin may be son of James and Benjamina? Because he could not be found in the 1881 census someone assumed that he went to Edinburgh? Maybe?
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ADDED: Thank you for moving this kind Moderator. :-*
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The Gavin who died in 1876 was aged 18. (Source SP)
Suzy, for completeness and to find out which Gavin this is, I would advise getting some SP credits and purchasing the death certificate. He is obviously not your Gavin as he was 18, unmarried, had no children therefore you can't be descended from him. ;D
I would be curious to know if he was the son of James and Benjamina though.
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I think Suzy may be descended from one of Gavin's siblings but she hasn't specified which one if that's the case?
Annie
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I think Suzy may be descended from one of Gavin's siblings but she hasn't specified which one if that's the case?
Annie
I originally thought she was descended from the Gavin with parents James and Benjamina, but you think she may be descended from one of Gavin's siblings? :-\
That would still make James and Benjamina the correct line?
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Yes, from what was written early doors, providing there's a trail, I think so?
Annie
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Lets hope Suzy enlightens us when she returns. :)
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Just trying to track all the children of Jacobinas and James to tidy away a few loose ends with my Lyall family.
This is where one of Gavin's siblings must be the ancestor?
Annie
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You are probably right Annie. I overlooked that vital sentence. ;)
Hopefully we shall soon find out more details of who Suzy is descended from. That will impact how much effort needs to be given to the search and how many SP credits used to confirm relationships.
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Suzy,
It may be worth getting in contact with the tree owner who had the 'specific' death date to confirm his source, DC/MI or other?
Knowing the source is a great help & if it's a DC you could trade info. by sharing certs ???
Annie
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I note you have been online in the last couple of days Suzy though you have not returned to this thread.
Have any of these findings been of help to you?
I tend to get a bit invested in people I have got to know through researching them and digging around in their past lives, so am curious to know if Annie is right - are you descended from one of Gavin's siblings rather than Gavin himself?
Do you need any more help with this family or is this enough for you to be going on with?
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Likewise Ruskie,
We do get involved & it's always good to have feedback on our findings especially when many hrs are spent researching, not knowing whether it's right/wrong/not proven.
An acknowledgement of our detailed work is always welcome & I'm sure none of us would be offended if our research findings were wrong as it's all part of the enjoyment of our hobby regardless but it would be good to know which way it went & if we can be of further help or have to retire :-\ ;D
Annie
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Hi guys, sorry I didn't receive any notifications regarding last posts, so I am not being a snob, normally I reply to posts straight away.
I will have to go over what what was posted.
Suzy W
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I think Annie might be correct with the death of Gavin in Caithness.
Seeing a Gavin in Edinburgh during one of the census results made me wonder if that was him or not? You never know where people turn up.
Going by marriage details in Edinburgh it isn't his parents recorded, so not him.
Gavin would be a nephew to my ggg grandmother. His father James Mowat was indeed born in Freswick abt 1814.
My Mowat family intertwine so many times, it drives me crazy. I would have around 400 Mowat family members. Some marrying more Mowat's :o
Still no idea why I didn't receive update posts, unless it was my son updating this computer and did something...who knows ;)
Thanks for the help
Suzy W