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Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: jeanlit on Wednesday 04 July 18 00:13 BST (UK)
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Can you please help with the symbol shown on James Johnston's headstone, 1855, Australia?
Many thanks,
Jean.
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It may be an idea to give some info. about James?
Where was he born, what was his occ, where did he live (if anywhere other than Aus)?
The symbol may be connected to either of the above although just a thought?
Annie
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Not meaning to be rude but wondering/hoping it may look different darker to other sets of eyes?
Annie
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Thanks for the quick reply Annie.
We know very little about James Johnston. When he married in Australia, he said he was a member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland, but no indication of where he was born or when. His house was called “Kelvin Grove” which I believe is a suburb of Glasgow, and this name was given to houses that some of James’ descendants lived in.
No death certificate has been found. There was a coroners inquest into his death, which simply says he was killed by a falling tree.
His occupation was variously given in newspaper articles and marriage certificate (both his and his daughter) as farrier, blacksmith, horse-shoer and possibly veterinarian surgeon (the last not proven as it is only someone else’s comment), possibly a farmer when he died.
Having said that, the symbol does not look to me to be a horse-shoe. It doesn not even look like the “collar” (don’t know its correct name) which goes round a horse’s neck when they were harnessed up to pull a wagon or some other heavy load?
Sorry, none of the above gives any clues – not to me, anyway – perhaps you can help please?
Jean
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The space in the centre is shield shaped. I wonder if there was originally something inset and the raised parts were just the surround? I don't know whether such a thing would have been likely but maybe something to consider.
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Can you tell us when James married, how old & names of his children in order as this may help with parentage & finding him on a census prior to arriving in aus?
Annie
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I should clarify my previous post "he said he was a member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland, but no indication of where he was born or when." We have no information if he was born in Australia or elsewhere and also no information of year of birth or age. He died in 1855 and he was obviously an adult as we have newspaper articles which indicate he was a farrier, amongst other things.
Thanks,
Jean
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Is it a pair of arms?
Skoosh.
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A wreath?
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It isn't joined, like a wreath.
Seems to be two arms of something ?
The little round parts at the tops could almost be clenched fists ???
Do you know where in Australia this gravestone is?
Kelvin Grove is also a suburb of Brisbane in Queensland ???
Dawn M
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Kelvin Grove is also a suburb of Brisbane in Queensland ???
That's good to know Dawn as I was wondering about the name being split in 2 as Kelvingrove in Scotland is all 1 word.
Annie
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Often wondered where the suburb's name came from ???
I see Wiki says it is named after Kelvingrove Park in Glasgow :)
Dawn M
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The grave is on private land near Wingham NSW.
Manning River Times and Advocate for the Northern Coast Districts of New South Wales (Taree, NSW : 1898 - 1954), Wednesday 21 May 1902.
Road — Wingham to Kelvin Grove. Public Works Department, Sydney, 9th May, 1902.
Sir, — In reply to your communication, dated 3rd March, 1902, from Mr. Thos. Joyce, Hon. Secretary to the Dingo Creek Progress Committee, presented by you, relative to opening up of road through Mr. Johnstone's property, road Wingham via Ashlea to Kelvin Grove, I am directed by the Minister to inform you that he has approved of tenders being called for this work, returnable about the middle of June. I have, &c., J. Davis, Under-Secretary. J. Thomson, Esq., MP.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/172471580
James Johnston's wife died in 1902. (They had married in Sydney in May 1845 and had 3 daughters). Harden is a long way from Wingham but the family liked the name due to links with home.
Goulburn Herald (NSW : 1881 - 1907), Wednesday 3 December 1902.
Harden, Monday. Mrs. Johnston, mother of Mrs. George Rogers, of Kelvin Grove died yesterday, aged ninety. Deceased was one of the oldest residents. She was a sister of the late Mr. John McCallum of Forest. Lodge, near Goulburn.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/100498791
Neil
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Thanks Neil,
Jean
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Always worth checking other gravestones of a similar period in the graveyard. It may be a device the mason used elsewhere.
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Laurel wreaths look a bit like that.
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Often wondered where the suburb's name came from ???
I see Wiki says it is named after Kelvingrove Park in Glasgow :)
Not impossible but doubtful from this quote (bearing in mind James married 1845);
"In 1852 the City purchased land forming Kelvingrove and Woodlands Estates for the sum of £99,569 to create an area which is now known as Kelvingrove Park. It was one of many Victorian parks created in response to the appalling conditions created by rapid urban growth, resulting from the industrial revolution"
I have no idea when 'now' above refers to i.e. when it became a 'Park'?
However, I could believe the name 'Kelvingrove' (whether split or not) has some connection with James, whether he was born there or his father was?
Jean...
Have you tried all variants of surname Johnstone for his death? Johnston/Johnson/Jonson etc?
Seems incredible you have a "coroners inquest into his death" & no cert?
If you know where the inquest was, is there no/any way of being able to get his death record/cert. from the info. you have from the registrar of the area this occured?
You obviously have a date for the inquest i.e. there must/should be a death record?
Annie
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Civil registration for bdm commenced 1 March 1856 in New South Wales.
Burial on private property in rural/regional NSW was common for much of the 19th Century. Burial may well have occurred prior to Coronial Inquest.
JM
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Thanks JM!
I now understand why there's no death cert!
Annie
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Possibly something here?
http://headstonesymbols.co.uk
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In the NSW Registers of Coroners’ Inquests and Magisterial Inquiries which Ancestry has uploaded as part of their current commercial partnership with NSW Archives, there’s many images, including a page showing a number of entries in early 1855.
(at entry no) 9560
(at an enquiry in the police district of the) Manning River
(a death occurred on or about) 21 February 1855
(the deceased has been identified as) James JOHNSTON,
(and at that enquiry led by) Hawthorne JP
(which was held on) 6 March 1855
(the cause of death was determined to be due to a) Fall of a Tree
No mention of where the burial occurred.
JM
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I like the way you knock over those "brick walls" JM Neil
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I make a habit of it, and so too does Annie. :)
Oops, fingers pressed send too early.
ADD
If we can understand the context, then we are half way to advancing the quest...
JM
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I wonder if the 'symbol' is actually 2 J's facing in opposite directions i.e for J J (James Johnston) :-\
Annie
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Very interesting
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I like the JJ interpretation and also wondered if the mason had taken artistic licence,, combining the man's initials with a horseshoe.
I have a farrier in one of my lines and here's my understanding of the trade:-
"In the British Army, the Household Cavalry have farriers who march in parade in ceremonial dress, carrying their historical axes with spikes. They are a familiar sight at the annual Trooping the Colour. There is also a farrier on call "round the clock, twenty-four hours a day, at Hyde Park Barracks".
In the United Kingdom, the Worshipful Company of Farriers is one of the Livery Companies of the City of London. The Farriers, or horseshoe makers, organised in 1356. It received a Royal Charter of incorporation in 1571. Over the years, the Company has evolved from a trade association for horseshoe makers into an organisation for those devoted to equine welfare, including veterinary surgeons."
The extremely large axe the army farriers carried were to dispatch the animals under their care during early warfare for example.
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"I like the JJ interpretation and also wondered if the mason had taken artistic licence,, combining the man's initials with a horseshoe."
Rena, I felt the open part (if a horseshoe) was too narrow but indeed with artistic licence it could be interpreted in that way possibly although I'm not convinced on the 'JJ' theory I put across :-\
Annie