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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: David Van Coolwijk on Wednesday 04 July 18 20:02 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Wednesday 04 July 18 20:02 BST (UK)

I am looking for living relatives of Raymond Shepherd, Service Number 929961, Son of Ada Shepherd, of Great Yarmouth, Norfolk.

we have found some possible relatives and found out that Ada was widowed. No living family members yet.

Some information can be found here: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2620180/shepherd,-raymond/

Information on memorial we are building can be found here: https://davevancoolwijk.wixsite.com/halifaxmonument

I am looking for background stories and photographs of Raymond.

Any information or help is more than welcome!

Kind regards,

David van Coolwijk
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: nanny jan on Wednesday 04 July 18 21:31 BST (UK)
I might have found Ada as a Red Cross volunteer in WW1;  working 1916-1918 as a laundress (similar occupation in 1939) in Woodbastwick Hall, Norwich.

Not really what you are looking for but just a bit of background.
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Saturday 18 August 18 15:16 BST (UK)
I have found an address in an old archive.

It says:

Mrs. A. Shepherd, mother,
28 Belfort Place
st. Nicholas Road
Gt. Yarmouth

Maybe that is helpful?
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: fulliautomatix on Monday 10 September 18 14:34 BST (UK)
The address 28 Belfort Place matches where Ada is on the 1939 register. Frustratingly, there is a 'closed entry' below her name that is probably Raymond. I can see the end of the 'y' in Raymond if I look closely. It looks like he may have been an only child as Ada was already a widow by 1939 and the household only consists of Ada and one other person (probably Raymond). I still cannot find a record of either Ada's marriage to 'Mr SHEPHERD' or a record of Raymond's birth. I have contacted a few relatives of the CORKE family through Facebook and ancestry.co.uk but so far no one has any additional knowledge of Ada's generation.
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Thursday 01 November 18 22:08 GMT (UK)
Still no news I am afraid. I think I will file a request for his service records at the national achives in the near future.

I have written an email to several local newspapers, but I haven't had a reply from any of them unfortunately.

I am afraid Raymond might've been forgotten by his family.

He is either one of the two I encircled.

I think the right one, the left one looks more Scottish to me.
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 01 November 18 23:09 GMT (UK)

Raymond's service record is held by the MOD, not the archives.
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Thursday 01 November 18 23:11 GMT (UK)
In that case I will contact the MOD. Thank you!
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 01 November 18 23:24 GMT (UK)
This link gives details of how to apply:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 02 November 18 00:51 GMT (UK)
The address 28 Belfort Place matches where Ada is on the 1939 register. Frustratingly, there is a 'closed entry' below her name that is probably Raymond. I can see the end of the 'y' in Raymond if I look closely. It looks like he may have been an only child as Ada was already a widow by 1939 and the household only consists of Ada and one other person (probably Raymond). I still cannot find a record of either Ada's marriage to 'Mr SHEPHERD' or a record of Raymond's birth. I have contacted a few relatives of the CORKE family through Facebook and ancestry.co.uk but so far no one has any additional knowledge of Ada's generation.

I can't see a remarriage or a death for Ada H. Shepherd and where does the name 'Corke' come from?   I'm confused.

Annette
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 02 November 18 10:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Annette     

Appears it is from Anc.tree     http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myd/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myd/)

     
F= Shepherd     
M= Edith Hannah Corke     
B= 1922     
D= 1/5/1943

Ray


     



Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: fulliautomatix on Friday 02 November 18 14:54 GMT (UK)
Apologies, I should have clarified that CORKE was Ada/Edith's maiden name. There seems to be variations in her name. Sometimes it is Ada Edith, or Ada Hannah, sometimes Edith Ada and now Edith Hannah! I'm pretty sure it's the same person though! On the 1939 register it's written as Ada H Shepherd with a d.o.b of 14-01-1887, although the year is dubious.

I've re-sent messages via Facebook to 3 people who I think are descendants of Ada's brothers, so will let you know if I get any responses.
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 02 November 18 15:01 GMT (UK)


Where does the proof of the name "Corke" exist?     


R
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: fulliautomatix on Friday 02 November 18 15:16 GMT (UK)


Where does the proof of the name "Corke" exist?     


R

Hard to prove definitively but it comes from a couple of other Corke-related trees on ancestry.  I also contacted someone on there who sent me this exhaustive reply which helps explain...

"Andy,

Ada Hannah Corke's birth was registered in 1st Q 1884 in Yarmouth mothers maiden name was England (Volume 4b Page 26).

She was baptised as Edie Hannah Cork on 7 Feb 1884 with a birth date given as 14 Jan 1884 (Norfolk, England, Bishop and Archdeacon Transcripts of Parish Registers, 1600-1935). Her parents were given as Charles & Eleanor Corke.

She is found with her parents on the 1891, 1901 & 1911 census returns, as Edith A Corke in 1891 and Ada on 1901 & 1911. All three give a birth year of 1884.

All of this information is on my Ancestry tree (with sources) which you have obviously found. The tree also shows the relatives of Ada, descended from her parents. However, it does not give the names and details of living relatives.

Until I received your message I had no information on Ada beyond the 1911 census that I could be sure of. I had not found a marriage that I could reliably attribute to her, I couldn't find her in 1939 as a Corke nor could I find a death as a Corke.

I have found the 1939 Reg. that you have referred to where an Ada H Shepherd (Widow) is living at 28 Belfort Place, Great Yarmouth C.B., Norfolk, England with a closed record (assumed to be a child), however the date of birth is 14 Jan 1887, not 1884. The day and month of birth provide good circumstantial evidence but the year is a problem. It could be Ada Hannah Corke as I have found other 1939 Regs. where the day and month are correct and the year is incorrect. However, I was still not totally convinced.

I have also found the death that you have referred to where the death of an Ada Shepherd was registered in the 1st Q of 1865 in Yarmouth. The age at death was 82. If this was Ada Hannah Corke she would not have turned 82 until January 1966. This does not match but could be within the bounds of error.

I have now found further evidence that appears to confirm a link between Ada Shepherd & Ada Hannah Corke. Ada Hannah Corke had a younger brother named Victor Corke (See 1901 & 1911 census on my tree). His British Army Service record gives his address on enlistment as 28 Belfort Place, St Nicholas Rd Gt Yarmouth (See my tree). This is the same address as Ada Shepherd in 1939. This takes the link beyond coincidence and into the realms of 'on the balance of probability' if not 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

We now have the task of linking the Raymond Shepherd on the CWGC site to the Ada Shepherd nee Corke in 1939. I would normally find his birth registration which would give his mother's maiden name, then use this to find the marriage of his parents at an appropriate time and place.

The CWGC record gives Raymond's age at the time of his death as 21. As he died on the 1st May 1943 he would have been born between the 1st May 1921 and the 30th April 1922 (2nd Q 1921 to 3rd Q 1922 allowing for six weeks to register the birth). Unfortunately there are no obvious candidates with a first name of Raymond.

Raymond   Shepherd   2nd Q   1921   mother's maiden name Swales Middlesbrough   Yorkshire
Raymond L   Shepherd   3rd Q   1921   mother's maiden name Tilley   St. Thomas Devon
Raymond   Shepherd   4th Q   1921   mother's maiden name Gregory   West Bromwich   Staffordshire

Raymond P   Sheppard   2nd Q   1921   mother's maiden name Bishop   Devizes Wiltshire
Raymond   Sheppard   4th Q   1921   mother's maiden name Moran   West Bromwich   Staffordshire
Raymond   Sheppard   3rd Q   1922   mother's maiden name Adlam   Isle of Wight Hampshire

I can't find a record of a marriage of an Ada (Eadie or Edith) Corke to a Shepherd.

The CWGC record give Raymond's mother as Ada Shepherd with no father mentioned. This could imply that there was no father. If we look for births of a Raymond Corke during the same period we get:-

Raymond S   Corke   3   1921   mother's maiden name Corke   Rochford   Essex

This record gives a birth of a Raymond during the right time period with a connection to the Corke name. Could the initial stand for Shepherd? This is of course only a theory but are there any other options? It explains the lack of a appropriate marriage, the lack of a birth record for a Raymond Shepherd and also why his father wasn't mentioned on the CWGC record.

I'm not sure what other records are available that would give any further information.

Get back in touch if you want to discuss this further, or want help tracing living relatives. My tree only has information on relatives with the Corke name. I have not followed maternal lines."

Phew!

I would add that on the 1939 register, the closed entry below Ada does look like it might say 'Shepherd, Raymond' as you can just see the tails of the letters 'p' and 'y' in the right places. It seems likely that he was an only child.

Andy
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 02 November 18 18:19 GMT (UK)
Select Cemetery records on Ancestry also show the addresses for Charles Corke bur.7/7/1934 and wife Eleanor Corke bur.17/1/1931 (both buried at Gt. Yarmouth) as being 28 Belfort Place.  Since Ada H. Shepherd is living there in 1939 I think it's pretty certain that she was their daughter, birth registered as Ada Hannah, who from baptism cited, was born 14/1/1884 (not 1887 as on 1939 register).    However, women often - deliberately or otherwise - get their birth year wrong, but not their actual birthday.

Since a) it seems pretty evident that Raymond was the Raymond S. (for Shepherd?) Corke, mmn Corke, Sept.1921 Rochford Registration District (no amendment to birth entry and birth certificate no doubt would only have a line through father's details) and b) no marriage to a Mr. Shepherd after Raymonds's birth, it sounds like Ada maybe returned to Yarmouth between 1921 and 1931, perhaps to care for her ailing parents.   I would suggest that 28 Belfort Place was originally the home of Charles and Eleanor and taken over by Ada after their deaths in 1931 and 1934.   I have no doubt that a 'Mr.' Shepherd was Raymonds's father, but if not named on the latters birth certificate (which is extremely likely) and with no subsequent marriage for his parents it seems like Ada (and her young son) returned to Yarmouth where she passed herself of as Ada H. Shepherd, a widow.   I doubt there is any way at all to even establish who 'Mr'. Shepherd was, and whoever he was I doubt he was dead by 1939. 

Therefore, finding any family for poor Raymond Shepherd can only be found on his mothers Corke line.  There were plenty of Shepherd's living/dying in the Rochford Registration District but unless Raymond S Corkes's 1921 birth certificate is ever purchased we don't even know the name of the actual place where he was born, let alone who his father was.



Annette         


Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 02 November 18 20:42 GMT (UK)


Annette's summary, to me, cannot be bettered without documentary proof.

The father's name may actually be the same name as the son.     


RIP Raymond Shepherd.     


Ray






Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Thursday 17 January 19 22:56 GMT (UK)
I have got a lead! A member sent me a private message with some names (Corke) and addresses of living relatives.

I have sent a letter to them, now we wait.......
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 17 January 19 23:19 GMT (UK)
An interesting development;  thank you for the update.  :)
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Thursday 17 January 19 23:22 GMT (UK)
Hopefully it's a match! In that case I have 7 out of 7 family's!
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Friday 25 January 19 13:20 GMT (UK)
The Great Yarmouth Mercury picked up my research!

https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/dutch-villagers-great-yarmouth-world-war-2-raf-air-gunner-1-5866326
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: nanny jan on Friday 25 January 19 15:28 GMT (UK)
Exciting news; thank you for the update.  :)
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Friday 01 February 19 21:13 GMT (UK)
Not sure where I got this from, but could James Shepherd be the father of Raymond?
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: daretodiscover on Sunday 03 February 19 03:39 GMT (UK)
Not sure where I got this from, but could James Shepherd be the father of Raymond?

It came from here: https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=8081744

What is your man's connection to Australia? James Shepherd was born in Belfast but his wife, Ada, lived in Balmain, NSW, Australia.

DTD
Title: Re: Looking for family of Raymond Shepherd of the crashed Halifax bomber in Holland.
Post by: David Van Coolwijk on Sunday 03 February 19 10:48 GMT (UK)
As far as I know there is no connection with Australia, but I probably downloaded this image because I made a connection with this Shepherd with his wife Ada Shepherd.