RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Tshed on Thursday 05 July 18 18:06 BST (UK)
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Hi
I don't currently have international access, and was wondering if anyone has a little time just to have a little look for me....I am trying to establish if a John Leonard Clegg John who served in the RNZAF and became a prisoner of war in WW2 with the Japanese and was repatriated back to NZ in 1945 is the same John Leonard Clegg who was born 1906 in West Derby England. I was wondering if anyone could perhaps find his death in NZ (I don't know when) and see if the date of birth tallies up.
He is not to be confused with an eminent mental health doctor of the same name born 1906 also in West Derby Lancs.
I recognise this is a shot in the dark. I would like to contact any descendants of his and so finding his death is a start. His father was John William Clegg the brother of my Great Grandfather.
Cheers
Neil
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Hi Neil
The NZ Death Index (online) has the following >
1970 / 26279 - CLEGG - John Leonard - 63 years [born c. 1907 ]
So, yes, very probably the man you seek.
I'll see what else can be found for him.
~ Lu
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Thank you Lu so much, that's brilliant. That clears a few things up for me. Yes anything would be helpful but that date does make think he's the right chap as I have seen his sister Dorothy Edith Clegg travel there in 1936 but not him; I didn't know any more than that so that s great.
Thanks
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Hi Neil
... still checking records here.
There was no record of a child of that name being born in New Zealand and of course the approximate year of birth given at time of his death, hints that this is more than likely your man.
Am just following up on a couple of marriages and some other matters - will get back soon.
~ Lu
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A souvenir from his repatriation flight back to NZ.
http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/16299
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A souvenir from his repatriation flight back to NZ.
http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/16299
Haha, thank you yes, Id seen that, its what made me believe it may be the chap I was looking for. Very interesting too! Lucky chap to have survived that.
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Some newspaper snippets which may (or may not) be about John Leonard Clegg.......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19410117.2.82?phrase=2&query=john+leonard+clegg
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19400620.2.79?phrase=2&query=john+leonard+clegg
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19450926.2.71?phrase=2&query=j.+l.+clegg
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19450926.2.29?page=2&phrase=2&query=j.+l.+clegg
Minniehaha.
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Divorce file of a John Leonard Clegg, includes marriage certificate & photograph (access restricted).........
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=20361735
Minniehaha.
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Burial record for John Leonard Clegg
Date of birth
Unknown
Occupation
Secretary
Date of death
16 March 1970
Age at death
63 years
Gender
Male
Region
West
Cemetery name
Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location
Waikumete Cemetery, Service Persons Ash Burial Area K, Row 1B, Plot 162
Remains type
Ash
Date of cremation
18 March 1970
Date of burial
8 April 1970
Funeral director
Watney Sibuns And Sons Limited
Minniehaha.
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You could try contacting the funeral directors as mentioned above for information.....
https://sibuns.co.nz/contact-us/
However first let me try and obtain a newspaper death notice for you.
Minniehaha.
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Hello again Neil
Thank you for your message. Good to see that further snippets of information have now been added here, and hopefully a death notice, which may offer further family information, can be sourced.
I had tried looking for possible children of John L. CLEGG using electoral and other information, but alas, found nothing. That though is not to say he didn't have children.
John lived in various parts of New Zealand over the years ; was listed in electoral rolls as an accountant / clerk / public servant. He had two marriages, the second of which followed quite soon after his 1947 divorce. [ Details to come. ]
Archives New Zealand (Auckland Office) hold a Probate file dated 1970, but unfortunately this is not yet available for online viewing.
More info to follow.
~ Lu
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Hi Neil
In earlier mentioning John CLEGG's sister Dorothy, and her travel to New Zealand, I'm not sure whether you were aware that their father, John William CLEGG, had died in NZ in 1930 ??
I came across his name during an electoral search (he lived in close proximity to his son and daughter) and curious as to who he was, I followed up further.
Happily, there was a Letters of Administration file in his name, which confirms family relationships.
CLEGG - John William - Retired Butcher of Te Rapa, near Hamilton (Waikato, NZ)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L94D-HWJ8?i=180&cc=1865481
More to follow ...
~ Lu
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Death of John William CLEGG :
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19300613.2.103
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I should be able to get back to you about the death notice for John Leonard Clegg in about three days.... :)
Minniehaha.
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Hi Neil
... just digressing here (in case it is that you don't have info for John William CLEGG).
* Do you know what became of Eleanor Edith CLEGG (wife of J.W. ) ??
[ I can see them with the children in 1911 census. ]
It's just that I've found what appears to be John William CLEGG, arriving (unaccompanied) at Wellington, NZ in 1912 ?
Ship : "Rotorua" - departed London 9 May 1912 bound for New Zealand.
# c 666 - CLEGG - Mr J. - 45 years - occ: Butcher
Contracted to land at Port of Wellington*
Last Permanent residence : England
Country of future permanent residence : New Zealand
~ Lu
Edited to add > * Took my original shipping info from another source which I'm sure said "... to land at Wellington". Following immigration list though, states he was to "land at Auckland" ??
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X3C3-C1?i=166&cc=1609792
Edit 2 : > have re-checked 1st list given above (UK Outward Passengers) - states "contracted to land at Wellington" :
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Inquest re the death of Mr. John William Clegg……
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19300704.2.164?end_date=31-07-1930&phrase=0&query=+clegg&start_date=01-06-1930&title=AS%2CNZH
Added:Burial details......
John William CLEGG
Buried: 14/06/1930 Type: Burial
Funeral Director: Scrimshaw, E. G. Last Address: Unspecified
Location: Hamilton East Cemetery
FRONT-F-17
Minniehaha.
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Marriage:
1928/1657 Jane Gibson John William Clegg
Death:
1945/21560 Clegg Jane 77Y
Death notice of Jane Clegg…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19450918.2.7?end_date=31-12-1945&phrase=0&query=clegg+jane&start_date=01-01-1945
Burial details:
Jane Lyall CLEGG 77 Female 17/09/1945
Buried: 19/09/1945 Type: Burial
Funeral Director: Scrimshaw, E. G. Last Address: Unspecified
Location: Hamilton East Cemetery
AA2-AA-520
Minniehaha.
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Probated will of ...Jane Lyall CLEGG.......
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z6-H4GN?i=273&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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John Leonard CLEGG:
Missing on active service…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19430614.2.90?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=0&query=john+leonard+clegg&start_date=01-01-1926
Previously reported missing, now confirmed a prisoner of war……..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19431001.2.51?end_date=31-12-1949&phrase=0&query=john+leonard+clegg&start_date=01-01-1926
Minniehaha.
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The earliest "footprints" of John William CLEGG so far found.......
Advertisement placed by J. W. CLEGG in 1916…..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WT19161212.2.2.5?phrase=2&query=j.+w.+clegg
Advertisement placed by J. W. CLEGG in 1917….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WT19170914.2.2.4?page=2&phrase=2&query=j.+w.+clegg
[There are a number of advertisements inserted by J. W. Clegg around this time.]
Minniehaha.
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Marriage:
1931/8892 Mollie Gertrude Revell Geary John Leonard Clegg
Minniehaha.
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As a side issue, the obituary [1933] of Miss Lucy ALLCOCK, great-aunt of J. L. Clegg & Dorothy Clegg, may be of interest to you.......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19331128.2.14?phrase=2&query=dorothy+clegg
Minniehaha.
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A little more on Lucy ALCOCK*
Cemetery details.....
Lucy ALCOCK 92 Female 27/11/1933
Buried: 01/12/1933 Type: Burial
Funeral Director: Unknown Last Address: Unspecified
Location: Hamilton East Cemetery
FRONT-F-17
Death registration:
1933/19422 Alcock Lucy 92Y
*Spelling differs from obituary.
Minniehaha.
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I believe the following details relate to Dorothy Edith, sister of John Leonard CLEGG.......
This shows the connection [Spelling of surname is incorrect] ..........
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=25548288
Death registration:
1988/40936 Houchen Dorothy Edith 3 January 1905
Cemetery details:
Dorothy Edith HOUCHEN 83 Female 30/05/1988
Cremated: 07/06/1988 Type: Cremation
Funeral Director: V J Williams & Sons Last Address: Alexander Sts Te Kuiti
Location: Hamilton Park Cemetery
Probated will of Dorothy Edith Houchen:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=16624577
Minniehaha.
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Thank you Lu and Minniehaha very much. That is amazing stuff and has completely thrown me with John William Clegg as I thought he'd died in 1912. I pride myself on corroborating and getting my genealogy beyond doubt, and I clearly have missed something there....(although unusually I have not bought the certificate and maybe would have picked up I was wrong had I done so).
ALso the fact that he lived to 1930 means more likely that someone will have a photo of him somewhere. He is the only brother of four I don't have a picture of, though I do of his father.
Dorothy's death and married name and should help, and I will follow that link to see her will.
I am shocked John William went over there, but its great when you get new information that leads you down a new path. I can't think at all who Lucy Allcock is, and will have a look at their mother's family which I've not done. It doesn't ring a bell for the Cleggs. Genealogy is never ending.
Thank you so much, I'm very chuffed. I need now to find up to date rellies and hope for the existance of photos.
THank You
Neil
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Hi Neil,
"I need now to find up to date rellies and hope for the existance of photos."
Fingers crossed the newspaper death notice for John Leonard will take you closer. I will send it to you as soon as I have news......
Minniehaha.
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Unfortunately I don't think you will be able see the will of Dorothy Edith unless you pay for it. Not yet digitised.
However I will see if I can obtain a death notice for her.....
Minniehaha.
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Mention of the CLEGG siblings at Hamilton High School [1921]......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WT19211217.2.47?phrase=2&query=dorothy+clegg
Minniehaha.
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Hi Neil
Have a little more to share re: Dorothy Edith (which I'd found earlier).
She married in 1940 to a widower named Leslie HOUCHEN.
[He had married in 1930 and his wife had died in 1934 a month or so after giving birth to twins who are buried with her. There seems to have been a son of that union also (name omitted) with whom Dorothy lived after she was widowed. ]
But Dorothy and Leslie HOUCHEN also had a son according to the following notice. (Am still endeavouring to find whether this chlld survived infancy - I don't have a name for him as yet.)
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19420923.2.4
~ Lu
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Cemetery details for the husband of Dorothy......
Leslie HOUCHEN 75 Male 07/05/1976
Cremated: 10/05/1976 Type: Cremation
Funeral Director: V J Williams & Sons Last Address: Alexandra St Te Kuiti
Location: Hamilton Park Cemetery
Minniehaha.
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THanks again so much, this has made a huge difference. The letters of administration for John William's death completed by John LEonard, mention his mother Eleanor Edith Clegg (nee Evans) having died in 16th September 1913 in Aukland. She would have been relatively young so will see how to discover why. Eleanor's mother by the way was the sister of Lucy Alcock so that ties in too.
I'm guessing my best way ahead is to head down the Houchen road and see if I can find a descendent.
Such is genealogy that I can be both happy that I had short changed John WIlliam, and that he actually had 18 years more life than I had recorded, but also shocked at the manner of his death.
Thanks again.
Neil
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Hello.
There is a 1913 Carrington hospital record that can be looked up, if anyone was attending the Archives NZ Auckland archive. I live an hour and a half [on a good traffic day] away, but not sure when I will next be at the archive. Some one may be there sooner than I.
There is also a Wellington archive 1913 record of an inquest that some one may look up for you if requested.
Alan.
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WOw, you have it all going on in NZ! That would be an interest addition to knowledge, as she was only 31 I believe. Is it something I can apply for over the internet? (I'm in the UK)
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Hi Neil
How remiss of me not to have looked through the administration file of John William CLEGG in its entirety after giving you the link to it yesterday. ::) ;D
Usually I do check for further information, but was rushed off my feet with other things. :D
NZ BDM (online) has the death of Eleanor Edith CLEGG, spelled as follows >
1913 / 6076 - CLEGG - Helena Edith - 33 years
Burial
Waikumete Cemetery - Auckland (Anglican F - Row 9)
CLEGG - Helena Edith - died 16 September 1913 - Plot 89
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/find-burial-cremation.aspx
~ Lu
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That's not remiss at all, I'm really grateful for the info. and that too is interesting, thanks. Can I get her inquest on line, as Alan mentioned its availability?
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Further to Lucy's response, I already had these details so will put them up anyway.......
Burial record for Helena Edith Clegg
Date of birth
Unknown
Date of death
16 September 1913
Age at death
33 years
Gender
Female
Region
West
Cemetery name
Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location
Waikumete Cemetery, Anglican Division F, Row 9, Plot 89
Remains type
Body
Date of burial
19 January 1913
Funeral director
Unknown
Minniehaha.
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Re the coroner's report Neil, I suggest you start a new topic with a heading:
'CORONER'S report look up please.'
It is held @ Wellington Archives and a very kind Rootschatter may be able to do this for you.
Here are the details required to help that person:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23719125
Minniehaha.
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I will do, thanks very much. Thank you all.
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I hope to be able to obtain the death notice for Dorothy Edith HOUCHEN this week........
Minniehaha. :)
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Hi Neil
re: Lucy ALCOCK (or ALLCOCK) :
She can be found in 1901 census at West Derby in the household of Eliza EVANS (mother of Eleanor).
Eliza EVANS - wife - 56 - Confectionery Shop (Own account) - at home - b. Notts - Mansfield
- Sidney - son - 29 "
- Alexander - son -26 "
- Frederick - son - 24 - coachman ? / painter (or coach painter ? )
- Gilbert H. - son - 15 - commercial assistant
- Eleanor - dau - confectionery shop assistant
- Amy E. - dau - "
- Lucy ALCOCK - 58yrs - sister-in-law *- confectionery shop - b. Notts - Mansfield
[Note : All children ^ born Lancs - Liverpool -- Sidney and Alexander appear to also work in the confectionery shop. ]
~ Lu
* incorrectly described as "sister-in-law" (was sister of Eliza EVANS).
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THanks Lu, yes Lucy seems to have lived with the Evans family throughout, and according to the newspaper report when she died she went to NZ in 1913, which it seems was when Elanor was ill so that may have been the catalyst for her going at there at 72.
Thanks
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Per "Athenic" - departed London 27-3-1913 - for New Zealand
ALCOCK - Lucy - 68 years - occ: Housekeeper
Contracted to land at Wellington:
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Hello Neil,
I obtained the death notices [Dorothy Edith Houchen & John Leonard Clegg] sooner than expected.
Can you please send me your e-mail address (by personal message) and I can forward them on to you.
Minniehaha.
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You can make application (free) for his Service record here:
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/accessing-military-service-records.htm
A linked page states:
QUOTE
Charges
If you request a copy of a single military service file within a 12-month period the copy will be provided free of charge.
If you request copies of more than one military service file within a 12-month period the first file will be provided free but the second and subsequent files will be charged at the rate of $28 per file.
Payment can be made by credit card (Visa or MasterCard) or by cheque. Cheques should be made payable to ‘The New Zealand Defence Force’. Overseas payments should be paid by a bank draft drawn on a New Zealand bank.
Payment must be received before a request can be processed.
Copyright
All the material we hold is protected by copyright and copies are supplied on the understanding that they are for personal research purposes or private study only. NZDF copyright permission is required before this material can be used for any other reason.
END QUOTE
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Death of J. L. Clegg's second wife:
1998/13044 Clegg Peggy Eileen Clark 21 May 1916
Burial record for Peggy Eileen Clark Clegg
Date of birth
Unknown
Date of death
28 June 1998
Age at death
82 years
Gender
Female
Region
North
Cemetery name
North Shore Memorial Park
Remains type
Ash
Date of cremation
2 July 1998
Funeral director
Dils Funeral Services Ltd
Map location
Map data not available
Probate details:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=25236619
1.I have a year for the second marriage.
2.I now have a lead for contacting a family member. Can send this when I forward the death notices to you.
Minniehaha.
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WOw, you have it all going on in NZ! That would be an interest addition to knowledge, as she was only 31 I believe. Is it something I can apply for over the internet? (I'm in the UK)
Hello again.
Been away all day. Recently I looked up an Auckland Hospital record for another RC contributor. The records were hand written until about 1900, then type written sheets that had been bound into very big ledgers. They can be viewed at the archive that holds them, for free, by registered members of the public. A simple first time formality, where all research you do at the archive is then linked back to the individual user number that you are issued. They bring the ordered material to your research table.
Archive staff can look up, and supply paid for emailed copies, but most consider their charges are outside their budget, for any thing other than primary data. The staff need good instructions, and reference numbers, or the charges for search time involved, mount up.
Soon I start regularly passing through Auckland, and usually try passing on the nearby motorway at night, to avoid the terriable Auckland traffic congestion. But if I stay a few days, I have further research there that I would like to do, and a look up for you, would not be a great inconvenience. You can order up five research items at any one time. And as soon as you return items, you can re-order more to be sent up.
I have not looked up Carrington Hospital records, so not sure what form they are in, in that 1913 search period. I believe Carrington specialized in patients with mental problems.
Regards,
Alan.
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Hello again Neil,
The following is an account of the voyage of the 'Athenic' which arrived at Wellington in May 1913. The passengers of whom Miss Lucy Alcock was one, [see reply#41] are not named here but of interest is the naming of the Captain and his officers. One was Lieut. G. A. ALCOCK. A family connection perhaps?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19130514.2.58?end_date=14-05-1913&page=2&phrase=0&query=athenic&start_date=13-05-1913&type=ARTICLE
Minniehaha.
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Hello again.
I could find no remaining listing for HOUCHEN in the vacinity of HOUCHENS Road, Melville, now part of Hamilton City, but just a generation ago was farm land.
Probably why can be seen in the HOUCHEN listings in the Hamilton Cemeteries directory.
https://www.hamilton.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx?surname=houchen
The named funeral director's; Hill; Pellows; Cambridge; are approachable, and in the past have assisted family from overseas, seeking contact with 'lost' relatives. They may in this PC world, be prepared to forward messages to address for service in records held, but don't expect them to be handing out contact details direct to you.
Alan.
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Hello Neil,
Death notices for Dorothy Edith Houchen & John Leonard Clegg sent by e-mail together with a family member contact details.........
Minniehaha.
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Possibly a record of John Leonard Clegg returning from Singapore in 1941 per the 'Roggeveen'
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXFN-PV?cc=1609792
Minniehaha.
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Death notice for a son of Dorothy HOUCHEN sent to you by e-mail........
Minniehaha.
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Hi Neil,
I was passing Waikumete cemetery today and have taken a photo of the plaque on J L Clegg's final resting place if you PM me your email address I will email it to you,
Cheers Janette
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Another wee snippet re one John Leonard CLEGG from the London Gazette [1942].......
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35408/page/144/data.pdf
Minniehaha.
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Hello again.
Please contact by PM as I have 20 photos taken from a hospital file. Very sad, and quite a lot of detail including former UK addresses and NOK.
Alan.
PS Private contact just made and photos forwarded to the UK. 18/7/18
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Hi Neil,
Plaque photo emailed,
Cheers Janette
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Hello Neil,
Just tidying up a few loose ends.........
Birth of first wife of John Leonard CLEGG.
1910/9744 Geary Mary* Gertrude Revell Mary Beatrice James Eugene Gregory
*recorded as Mollie @ marriage registration. See reply #20.
Probate:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23084068
Death:
1976/44790 McTagget Mary Gertrude Revell 18 January 1910
Cemetery website:
https://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search/details?id=41958&serviceType=Cremation&previousPage=%2fservices%2fcommunity-and-culture%2fcemeteries%2fcemeteries-search%2fresults%3fserviceType%3dAll%26lastName%3dmctagget%26fromDate%3d01%252f01%252f1840%26toDate%3d19%252f07%252f2018%26cemetery%3dAll
Cemetery details:
Last name MCTAGGET
First name MARY GERTRUDE REVELL
Age 66 Years
Deceased date 06/08/1976
Service provided Cremation
Cremation date 09/08/1976
Cemetery Crematorium
Record number 41958
Minniehaha.
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I couldn't figure out why I had heard this name before. Then it dawned on me he is buried next to my grandfather at Waikumete (on opposite sides of a walkway). Sometimes I look at his plaque when looking for my grandfathers. It was bothering me!
I see R.L.Clegg was a secretery, actually a Civil Servant.
Going to ask some of my family if our family knew him.
There are still Cleggs in the RNZAF, related? Maybe?