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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: mangojam on Friday 06 July 18 22:13 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
I am looking for some help with my ggrandmother - Isabella McCrum.
She was born in 1887. She is on census records for both 1901 (living as a boarder with the MCILWAINES in Ballycraigy) and 1911 (living with her sister Elizabeth McCrum in Shankill).
What I can't find is record of her parents anywhere. I have possibly found her sister Elizabeth as Lizzie McCrum on the 1901 census, living with two brothers John and James under the care of their uncles John and Frances/Francis SIMM CAMPBELLl also in Ballycraigy.
I wondered if her parents died young so trawled death records for possible matches, and also marriage records for any possible Simm Campbell/McCrum marriages. Fruitless so far though.
Does anyone on this forum have any info/crossovers with McCrums/Simms/Campbells in the Carnmoney/Ballycraigy area?
Fingers crossed and thank you!
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James McCrum married Rebecca Simm in 1882:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10980/8013876.pdf
Son John was born in 1883:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02727/2002839.pdf
Son James was born in 1885:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02650/1976889.pdf
Daughter Isabella was born in 1887:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02563/1947687.pdf
Daughter Elizabeth was born in 1889:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02477/1919332.pdf
Death of Rebecca McCrum in 1890:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06108/4743323.pdf
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Possible death for James McCrum in 1900?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05747/4622865.pdf
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Oh my - did not expect a reply so thorough or quick! Thank you!!
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Was this Isabella's marriage in 1914? (father's details consistent with what has already been posted):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1914/09835/5571401.pdf
Also, an Elizabeth McCrum married in 1913 with father given as James (a deceased farmer) and one witness was an Isabella McCrum:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09879/5588449.pdf
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PRONI has the following will digitised online which you can read:
Probate of the Will of James M'Crum late of Roughford Templepetrick County Antrim Carter who died 9 November 1900 granted at Belfast to James Hamilton Farmer.
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
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Just a speculative possibility, but a Rebecca Jane Simms was baptised on 16 September 1857 in St. Anne's Church of Ireland Belfast, her parents were recorded as John Simms and Isabella McCleave of Carnmoney.
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Easy enough to research
c reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for McCrum of Antrim http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbo/
You can just change Surname for anyone else
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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Thank you all - yes I already had the marriages of Isabella and Elizabeth. Thank you all for the advice and links - I will get right on it. I am very new to this, but it is incredibly and strangely fascinating and addictive...
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... Death of Rebecca McCrum in 1890:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06108/4743323.pdf
Note the entry below Rebecca's death registration.
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Thank you all - yes I already had the marriages of Isabella and Elizabeth. Thank you all for the advice and links - I will get right on it. I am very new to this, but it is incredibly and strangely fascinating and addictive...
;D ;D Yes it can be!
You have already found some stuff, hope you find more from Link. It can be very rewarding!!
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At this point a possible scenario may be that Rebecca Simm was simply a.k.a. Rebecca Simm Campbell, the sister of John and Francis Simm Campbell shown in the 1901 and 1911 census returns living in Ballycraigy, also the sister of Agnes. Note the following death of an Isabella Sim in 1898, the informant was daughter Agnes Sim:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05823/4648979.pdf
In relation to Agnes, note this reference in a local 1918 newspaper: CAMPBELL - In loving memory of our dear brother, John Simm Campbell, who died on 16 February, 1917, at Ballycraigy, Carnmoney ... ... Inserted by his Brother and Sister, FRANCIS AND AGNES SIMM CAMPBELL.
(For info, John Simm Campbell's death registration is below, John McCrum was the informant):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05226/4446472.pdf
BTW, local newspapers over several days in November 1881 carried very extensive coverage of a case being heard by the first court of the Land Commission involving a number of Carnmoney tenants who had had their rent increased significantly in 1866, including detailed accounts of that part of the case for an Isabella Campbell (also referred to as Simm and Simm Campbell - indeed, there was confusion over the name at one point in proceedings). There was also mention of another tenant James McCrum who apparently knew Isabella's family well. Isabella was mentioned as the widow of John Simm Campbell who took a lease out on the property in 1842, the couple had 2 sons and 2 daughters and there are other snippets of information about the family going back decades - I can provide more on this if you wish.
Note also that there is a claim in a 1948 newspaper that John Simm Campbell worked with Dunlop in inventing the pneumatic tyre (although a later claim differs in the detail), that article includes the reference Johnnie Simm Campbell's bicycle (he was known to the neighbours as Johnnie Simm), again reflecting the variability in the name.
Griffiths Valuation shows several Simms / McCrum / Campbell entries if you search on Ballycraigy (print date for the area was 1861):
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
The Valuation Revision books may also offer up information:
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/Val12B/Search.aspx
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Notice the qualification over name in this PRONI Will Calendars Index entry for Francis in 1927: Campbell Francis Simms (sometimes called "Francis Simms") of Ballycraigy county Antrim farmer died 30 November 1927 Probate Belfast 31 January to John McCune Kane and James Aicken farmers. Effects £616 0s. 10d.
And this reference from a local newspaper report on the Spring Assizes in March 1901: SIMM v. McWILLIAM. This was an action brought by John Simm, farmer, Ballycraigy, against Henry McWilliam, farmer, Ballyrobert, for damages for the seduction of plaintiff's sister, Agnes Simm.
Given the stated birth place (Ballyvesey), there's every chance this was Agnes in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Fortwilliam_Park/958075/
So as far as the surname goes, pretty well interchangeable.
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Hannah Lynn, sister of my 2 x gt grandmother,married William McCrum (1820-1865) of Kilgreel, Templepatrick son of Samuel McCrum and Agnes Marshall.
Hannah's son James Carson McCrum b1863 died in Canada so is not the James McCrum who died 1900 in Roughfort, Templepatrick. I have looked through the basic records I have of this family (siblings of William) and cannot place the James who died 1900, nor any other the other names from the McCrum family of Carnmoney but I have not myself researched this family.
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I have done extensive research into the McCrum family from Carnmoney, my grandmother (Agnes McCrum was a descendant)
The following is an email from a Mr. Girvin who has the McCrum Family records at hand. These records were collected by a Wm Fee McKinney of `Sentry Hill` up until his death in 1917. http://www.sentryhill.net/
I have the full Family pedigree of the Carnmoney McCrums back to a John McCrum originally of Whithorn, Wigtownshire, Scotland
My own interest is in a certain Hugh McCrum (a g, granduncle), who along with his family from Carnmoney left for the USA in 1850. A novelist in the US Jack Sullivan and myself done some research into his life story via old Newspapers of the time, it can be found here http://pre-prowhiskeymen.blogspot.com/2016/09/hugh-mccrum-wests-peripatetic-whiskey.html
John McCrum (born c1690), settled in Carnmoney in 1715. He was from Whithorn in Wigtownshire, Scotland, and brought a 'testimonial' from there to introduce himself. (Source:
WF McKinney's family register books 1708-1917). John married Betty Clotworthy in 1725, and had 3 sons: John (born 1726) ; Alexander (born c1732) and *Samuel (born 1742).
Samuel (b 1742), married twice. His first married Margaret Kirkpatrick in 1769. Their
family were: John (born 1771) ; Robert (b: c1773) ; Clotworthy (born 1775) ; Alexander
(born 1777) ; *Hugh (1779-1868) ; Mary (born 1781) ; Robert (1784-1864) ; William (born
1786) and Elizabeth (born 1788). ** John BG Smyth and Jeanette Louden are descended from the above, Hugh (1779-1868) who married Mary Bryson.
Samuel's second marriage was to Margaret McIlroy in 1793. Their family were: Margaret (born: 1794) ; Samuel (born: c1795) and *James (born 1797) married Agnes Harvey in 1819. James McCrum and Agnes had the following family: Margaret (born 1820) ; Samuel (born c1823) ; William (born: 1826) ; Mary (born: 1828) ; Robert (born 1830) ; Agnes (born 1832) ; John James (born c1834) ; *Hugh (born: 1836) and Joanna (born: 1838).
I have just looked at the family records, and beside John and Agnes it reads ''emigrated to America''.
Hope this information has been of help to you. Regards, Allister.
PS: John McCrum (b: c1690) firstly married Mary McNeilly in 1716, though don't appear to have had any family.
Hello ,
Unfortunately, I am unable to locate William McCrums marriage. His son, William was born in 1842 (according to the Census), so he was born before Civil Registration. I viewed his marriage certificate online (via the NI direct website), to Mary Patience. It appears that the family settled in County Down, where there were already numerous families with the same name, though are of no immediate connection to their own. This make things quite confusing. One of Wm and Mary's sons, ie: Hugh, moved to Belfast. and had a family of his own. He was born in 1875, and you can find him in the Census, living in Majestic Street. You asked me about Wm Fee McKinney. He was of no relation to the McCrum's, though he had a keen interest in family history, and so recorded many family genealogies, from the earliest baptisms in 1708, until his death in 1917. There's a book concerning him called 'Sentry Hill, An Ulster Farm and Family' by Brian Walker.
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Have read your post - I too am interested in the ancestry of Isabella McCrum and her sister Elizabeth McCrum - am new to this so a little unsure as to how to make contact - look forward to a reply to confirm we are interested in the same people - I address this post to - Mangojam - who seems to be referring to the same people I am interest in -thank you
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Have read your post - I too am interested in the ancestry of Isabella McCrum and her sister Elizabeth McCrum - am new to this so a little unsure as to how to make contact - look forward to a reply to confirm we are interested in the same people - I address this post to - manjoHave read your post - I too am interested in the ancestry of Isabella McCrum and her sister Elizabeth McCrum - am new to this so a little unsure as to how to make contact - look forward to a reply to confirm we are interested in the same people - I address this post to - manjojam - who seems to be referring to the same people I am interest in -thank youHave read your post - I too am interested in the ancestry of Isabella McCrum and her sister Elizabeth McCrum - am new to this so a little unsure as to how to make contact - look forward to a reply to confirm we are interested in the same people - I address this post to - marjoram - who seems to be referring to the same people I am interest in -thank you
am - who seems to be referring to the same people I am interest in -thank you