RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: rutennotou on Saturday 07 July 18 20:00 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
I am currently trying to research my family tree and I am stuck! My great grandfather was Hugh Burns who I believe to have been born in Limavady in 1915. His father was called Thomas and I know this from his and my great grandmother's wedding certificate as he is listed there. He had siblings called Michael who married Jean Todd, sister Martha who married Joseph Forsythe and a sister Sarah who married Robert Archibald.
Basically I am stuck at Thomas Burns, my great great grandfather as I do not know his parents names, or even that of my great great grandmother he was married to. I have found two Thomas Burns - one burn in Eglinton in September 1869 and another born in Londonderry in March 1866. Unfortunately I don't know which one is the correct one and I'm hoping someone with some local knowledge may be able to help or even someone who's better at searching records than me!
Many thanks.
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Marriage results for Burns
Displaying results 1 - 100 of 16962. ;D ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbr/
BUT
only 2 Limavady and 4 NewtownLimavady both of which you can select from list on Left
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C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for Hugh Burns
Displaying results 1 - 100 of 651. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbs/
Again you can select districts and also decades from list on Left
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Hi everyone
Hugh Burns who I believe to have been born in Limavady in 1915. His father was called Thomas
Many thanks.
So have you looked for Thomas on 1911 Census?
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Maybe you know what age he was 1911?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbt/ is 1911 Census for all Thomas Burns
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Thanks for the links, I shall look into them.
Yes I have looked at the census but I can't find anything that matches what I already know about the family. Starting to wonder if he perhaps moved to here at some point but my mother is pretty certain he was born here.
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Do you have any information besides Hugh's marriage which points to him being born in Limavady area? Irish marriage certificates list residences of bride and groom at the time of their marriage which may, or may not, be where their family were living or where they were born.
What religion were the family? Have you checked for other spellings of the surname like Byrne, etc.?
There are other Thomas Burns births in the area which may be a possibility for Hugh's father. For Example-
Thomas Burns (1884)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02684/1988624.pdf
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https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
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I have attached a copy of Hugh's wedding certificate. Says Limavady as residence at time of marriage. His family are Protestant, caused problems when he married as he changed to Catholicism. My mother is certain he is from Limavady, as I have asked if shes sure due to being stuck trying to find stuff. Some stuff to look into though from the stuff I have been linked to, much appreciated.
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Birth results for Hugh from 1914 to 1916
Area - Limavady http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbv/ not there
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I have attached a copy of Hugh's wedding certificate. Says Limavady as residence at time of marriage. His family are Protestant, caused problems when he married as he changed to Catholicism. My mother is certain he is from Limavady, as I have asked if shes sure due to being stuck trying to find stuff. Some stuff to look into though from the stuff I have been linked to, much appreciated.
I suppose it's too much to hope for that there's an actual address on the marriage certificate rather than 'Limavady'?
Like hallmark I also have checked for any child with surname Burns/any child with Christian name Hugh in Limavady district without finding anything close.
Could he have been born a bit later (and thus not available online)? Does you mother have any idea of the day and month of his birthday?
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Even looking at every Hugh anywhere
Birth results for Hugh from 1914 to 1916
Displaying results 1601 - 1688 of 1688. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbw/
He's not there!!
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So Thomas was C of I which would have helped searching on Census!!
I could have added Religion to the Search!
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Have I missed reading something here? where did it say that Thomas Burns was Church of Ireland ???
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Err....non RC ;D ;D
His family are Protestant, caused problems when he married.....
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Maybe you know what age he was 1911?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbt/ is 1911 Census for all Thomas Burns
.....then look for Non RC ones!! ;D ;D
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It's possible that Hugh was registered under a different name- if illegitimate for example- and later used the name of a stepfather, 'adoptive' father, grandfather or mother's partner.
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It's possible that Hugh was registered under a different name- if illegitimate for example- and later used the name of a stepfather, 'adoptive' father, grandfather or mother's partner.
Not to the knowledge of my family at least, but that's always a possibility (and something I've considered myself as I can find nothing at all!). He was born on or very close to Halloween, 1915.
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There are births for a Joseph (1912) & a Martha (1914) Burns** in Limavady district mother McLaughlin but father not called Thomas.
Martha Burns married 16 Jan.1934 Limavady district to Joseph Forsythe.
Hugh Burns married 18 Feb.1943 Limavady district Mary McGranaghan.
** think this Martha Burns died 1916.
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Yes the marriages are correct, matches the information I already have. The other siblings are Michael and Sarah, I think Hugh was the youngest but not 100% certain.
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Yes the marriages are correct, matches the information I already have. The other siblings are Michael and Sarah, I think Hugh was the youngest but not 100% certain.
So what address is on them??
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Just trying to pin down the family somehow. If Hugh was born 1915 or slightly later so that birth isn't online then there might be a chance the one or some of the older children will appear in 1911.
Michael Burns married 21 Apr.1931 Larne district Mary Todd.
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Has their Religion been decided yet?
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Hugh Burns and Mary Ann McGranaghan were the witnesses to the marriage of Robert Archibald and Sarah Lynch in St. Patrick's RC Church, Limavady on 25 November 1941, 20 year old spinster Sarah was from Leeke, the daughter of James Lynch a farm labourer.
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Widening the search slightly beyond the 'Limavady area', I wondered about this birth in 1911 for a Martha Burns, parents given as Thomas Burns and Elizabeth Callaghan of Campsie:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01529/1619993.pdf
They also had a son Michael in 1907:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01709/1677177.pdf
Mother and son in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Eglinton/Campsey_Lower/598511/
Marriage in 1906 (bride as O'Callaghan):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10126/5684009.pdf
Following this line of enquiry, I then wondered about this unnamed boy as a candidate for Hugh, mother stated as Elizabeth Burns formerly Callaghan, no father's details given, but he was born on the day before halloween 1915, which is consistent with what you said at Reply #17:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01360/1560825.pdf
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Further to above, I wondered about the following death of a Thomas Burns, although not conclusive, note in particular the comment regarding his paralysis condition and whereabouts since 1911 under 'Duration of Illness':
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05187/4432442.pdf
I also noticed the following birth of a James Carr Burns to mother Elizabeth Burns in August 1914, no father mentioned, but the location is the same as for the unnamed child born at Halloween 1915 that I previously posted:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01403/1576885.pdf
And this birth in March 1913 in Campsie, Elizabeth McLeese Burns born to Elizabeth Burns formerly Callaghan, again no father mentioned:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01452/1593349.pdf
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So the proposed scenario playing out is that:
- Thomas Burns and Elizabeth (O')Callaghan married in 1906;
- The couple had children Michael in 1907 and Martha in 1911;
- Thomas was hospitalised with a paralysis condition in 1911 until dying in 1918;
- Elizabeth (Callaghan) Burns had illegitimate children Elizabeth in 1913, James in 1914 and an unnamed son - who is a candidate for Hugh - in 1915.
As to how Sarah Lynch (who married Robert Archibald in 1941) at Reply #23 fits in, note that there was a 1921 birth in Edenreagh, Eglinton for someone of that name with father's details that match those in the 1941 marriage record, the mother's name was given as... Elizabeth Callaghan.
Finally to close things off, a widow called Elizabeth Burns, father given as Charles O'Callaghan a labourer, married a James Lynch of Edenreagh, Eglinton, on 28 September 1928.
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As it looks like the father of Hugh Burns was not documented, turning instead to Elizabeth Callaghan...
Further to the 1911 census return posted at Reply #24, here was the Callaghan family in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lough_Enagh/Moydown/1528015/
The couple in these returns (Elizabeth's parents) were Charles (O')Callaghan and Sarah McGinley, here are Elizabeth's 1888 birth registration and her parent's 1887 marriage registration:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02516/1932605.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10802/5939416.pdf
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The 1887 marriage of Charles Callaghan to Sarah McGinley showed the bride's residence as 'Bonemaine' (likely Bunnamayne in Burt civil parish) and the 1901 and 1911 census returns indicated that her birth was c. 1863-7. In that light, note the following possibility in the Burt and Inch RC parish registers, a baptism on 8 March 1863 of a Sarah McGinley for parents Hugh McGinley and Eliza Doherty of Elaghbeg (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633002#page/6/mode/1up
A couple with these names had several other children - can provide details if required - but note this civil registration for a son called Hugh, who was born in 1875 in... Bonemaine, Burt:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03091/2133155.pdf
There was a marriage for a couple called Hugh McGinley and Elizabeth Doherty in Fahan RC parish on 21 November 1855.
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Although it looks like Thomas Burns was not the father of Hugh, he was nevertheless the father of Hugh's half siblings Michael b.1907 and Martha b.1911 and my guess is that he was the one from Eglinton you mentioned in your original post, born in 1869 to Michael Burns and Mary McKeever of Donnybrewer. This looks like a possibility for the family in 1901 and 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Eglinton/Doneybrewer_Level/1527681/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Eglinton/Donnybrewer_Level/598650/
Possibly Thomas in 1901?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lough_Enagh/Greenan/1528067/
That would mean that the age of the Thomas Burns who died in the Waterside Infirmary was very light, but that said, the informant was someone in the infirmary and the duration and nature of the paralysis condition might have played a part.
I also wondered if the middle names of McLeese and Carr for Elizabeth (Callaghan) Burns' 2 children in 1913 and 1914 were a nod to the identity of the fathers. There again, one could speculate if James Lynch was the father of one or more of the children from 1913 onwards (in addition to Sarah). The 1928 record of marriage to Elizabeth (Callaghan) Burns described James Lynch as a bachelor and labourer, but his father's details were blank. Other than his address of Edenreagh, Eglinton ('More' or 'Beg', it didn't say - Elizabeth's address was Gortnessy), the only other information were the names of the two witnesses - Sarah and Ellen McLaughlin. The marriage was conducted by Rev. Edward McNamee at 'Mullobuoy' - I can see a RC PP of that name and era. There are several candidates for James in the 1911 census, maybe fresh eyes will see something.
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Thank you so much for the very informative replies! A lot to think about there! I'd been trying hard to move forward with this but became stuck as I couldn't find him at all and didn't know what other surnames to try. Very much appreciated :)
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You're welcome, I imagine some of that has come as a surprise, the key has to be the 1941 marriage which brings together the same 4 people in the same location as the 1943 marriage you posted, the smoking gun being that Sarah was a Lynch. Once you track back through Sarah's 1921 birth and her parent's 1928 marriage to arrive at her mother's name Elizabeth Burns daughter of Charles Callaghan, the rest of the story before 1921 (Elizabeth's prior marriage to Thomas Burns followed by the births of the various children and Thomas' hospitalisation) comes together quite plausibly.
Added: BTW, in the 1934 marriage of Martha Burns to Joseph Forsythe, neither party's fathers were recorded. If I'm right, Martha would have seen very little if anything at all of her father due to his illness.
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Michael burns and Jean Todd were my grandparents. How can I help?