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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Zoe44 on Saturday 07 July 18 21:16 BST (UK)
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Hi I have a copy of my great grandmothers birth cert. and wanted to ask your opinion on her mother's name if poss?
Im reading it as ..
"Charlotte Allen late Marshall formally Lamb"
Is that correct?
Also could the "Late Marshall" mean from a previous marriage??
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! 😊
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yes, late Marshall from a previous marriage and formerly Lamb showing her maiden name.
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possible first marriage Charlotte Lamb & Henry William Marshall 25 July 1871 in Camberwell
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That's great thank you! Just needed it confirmed by you clever people..lol
And thankyou osprey for your quick marriage find for me aswel in regards to Henry William Marshall...
So glad I've got the birth certificate as hopefully be able to trace back Charlotte's parents now.
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Did you need details of the first marriage to MARSHALL.?
Charlotte stated her father was John LAMB and he was deceased.
Sue
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Hi
1881 Stafford Street Peckham
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbz/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mbz/)
1891 Furley Street Peckham
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mby/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mby/)
Charlotte born C1851 Winchester Hampshire
Fred born C1852 St Martin Worcester
Any problems viewing?
PM me?
Ray
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Hi and thank you..
Yes i have the census records for her just not her marriage info to Frederick...
Didn't realise until a few days ago she'd been married before.
Had a feeling Henry might not be Fredricks son but its the marriage details for her and Fred I'm really struggling to find!
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Although he's Frederick on census returns, I wonder about this marriage
Charlotte Marshall march qtr 1875 St Saviour vol 1d pg 118 with Alfred Allen the only other name on the page.
Death reg for first husband
Henry William Marshall 28 march qtr 1874 St Olave vol 1d pg 130
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Although he's Frederick on census returns, I wonder about this marriage
Charlotte Marshall march qtr 1875 St Saviour vol 1d pg 118 with Alfred Allen the only other name on the page.
Death reg for first husband
Henry William Marshall 28 march qtr 1874 St Olave vol 1d pg 130
Yes Alfred is my only match too!!
My grandmother told me her grandparents were Charlotte and Frederick but maybe he was born Alfred as I can't find any other records..
Im hitting a brick wall!! Lol
I think Henry Allen is definitely her 1st husbands son as the dates tie in but I'll keep looking and thanks again!
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Did you need details of the first marriage to MARSHALL.?
Charlotte stated her father was John LAMB and he was deceased.
Sue
Do you require full details?
Sue
ADDING
Do you require the likely Census details for Charlotte 1871 pre- marriage?
Do you require the likely baptism details for child Henry William MARSHALL?
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Did you need details of the first marriage to MARSHALL.?
Charlotte stated her father was John LAMB and he was deceased.
Sue
Do you require full details?
Sue
Hi Sue no I found her 1st marriage details quite easily but thankyou 😊
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Well in that case you already knew her father's name from the Parish register.
Have you located him in 1861?
I am happy to type the details of these items, but if you have them, it is not necessary.
From his baptism record, it is clear Henry is the child of Henry, the first husband .
Sue
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Well in that case you already knew her father's name from the Parish register.
Have you located him in 1861?
I am happy to type the details of these items, but if you have them, it is not necessary.
From his baptism record, it is clear Henry is the child of Henry, the first husband .
Sue
Hi Sue sorry hadn't refreshed my page properly I thought you only meant the marriage info!!
Any details you have regarding Charlotte or John etc would be great and also Henrys baptism record.
I just don't want it to be too much trouble! I dont know how or where you find so easily,..
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Marriage details-
July 22. 1871. The Parish Church. Parish of St George Camberwell, Surrey.
MARSHALL, Henry William. Charlotte LAMB. Both of full age. He a bachelor, she a spinster.
His occ is cab proprietor, They both live at Commercial Road. Henry’s father is William MARSHALL an engine driver and Charlotte’s father is John LAMB, deceased.
Married after Banns .
They both signed. The witnesses were John and Eliza NOBLE.
There is information available to show. I can type up later.
Eliza NOBLE is Charlotte’s sister and John is Eliza’s husband
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This baptism may be for Henry,the son of Charlotte on census, (sometime after his birth) Car man being the same occ. as at the marriage.
Walworth St John the Evangelist, 1878
Nov 24th , Henry William Parents, Henry William and Charlotte MARSHALL. Residence 12 King Southwick. His occ. Car man.
Sue
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This baptism may be for Henry,the son of Charlotte on census, (sometime after his birth) Car man being the same occ. as at the marriage.
Walworth St John the Evangelist, 1878
Nov 24th , Henry William Parents, Henry William and Charlotte MARSHALL. Residence 12 King Southwick. His occ. Car man.
Sue
Thanks Sue so much, I didn't realise Eliza was Charlotte's sister.
I'll have a look into his baptism, she would have been remarried by then..
Would it have been normal to babtise with late father's name once remarried? I'm not sure how it worked in those days x
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So this is the marriage of Charlotte LAMB's sister, Eliza LAMB. Father’s name John is confirmed. Not deceased at this time. Some kind of smith.
At The Parish Church. Parish of St George Camberwell,Surrey.
June 1st 1868.
John NOBLE. Eliza LAMB. Both of full age. He bachelor, she spinster. Occ Railway ??. Both of Kent (??) street. His father James NOBLE occ. gardener. Her father John LAMB occ. (?) smith.
Married after Banns. Both signed. Witnesses J. H. Collins. Mary Jane Facey.
Sue
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This looks like Charlotte before marriage in 1871 census. Birthplace interesting!
At Victoria Place, Camberwell.
John NOBLE. Head. Marr. Aged 25. Lab at Gas Works. Born Middlesex. Marylebone
Eliza NOBLE. Wife. Marr. Aged 25. Born Hants Winchester.
Charlotte LAMB. Unm.Stepsister. Aged 20. Domestic Servant, unemployed. Born Ireland (!)
Here's a possibility for the birth of Eliza LAMB.
LAMB, Eliza
Mother's maiden surname. WHITE
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter
Reg. District WINCHESTER & HURSLEY
Volume 07 Page 239
And a possible marriage for Eliza's parents.
Marriages Dec 1842
LAMB John
WHITE Charlotte
Winchester &c
7/396
Sue
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Following on from find for the marriage by osprey, here are the details.
March 39th 1875. At the District Church in the parish of St Mary Magdalene, Southwark.
Alfred ALLEN and Charlotte MARSHALL. He Bachelor, she widow. Both of full age. His occ. engineer. Both of Alfred Place. His father Thomas ALLEN, a smith. Her father John LAMB, a gunsmith. Married after banns. Both signed. Witnesses John NOBLE and Annie ALLEN.
Sue
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excellent! it was the correct marriage.
;D
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Wow so much info thank you!!
I'll be looking through it all as soon as I finish work.
Just caught snippet about Charlotte birthplace as Ireland ..I think I've come across that census before and disregarded due birthplace..hmm very strange! Lol
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Here's a possibility for the birth of Eliza LAMB.
LAMB, Eliza
Mother's maiden surname. WHITE
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter
Reg. District WINCHESTER & HURSLEY
Volume 07 Page 239
And a possible marriage for Eliza's parents.
Marriages Dec 1842
LAMB John
WHITE Charlotte
Winchester &c
7/396
In connection with the above, it may be worth noting that when Henry was baptised in 1878 (see reply #14), a child with the surname WHITE was baptised on the same day and from the same address, which was 12 King & Queen Street.
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Hi Zoe.
Further information would be available regarding your Charlotte, both following her second marriage and, on the other hand, regarding her ancestry and extended family.
It is up to you to let us know the direction you wish to take with your searches.
Sue
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Hi Zoe.
Further information would be available regarding your Charlotte, both following her second marriage and, on the other hand, regarding her ancestry and extended family.
It is up to you to let us know the direction you wish to take with your searches.
Sue
Hi Sue
Thankyou for your kind msg, I'm interested in it all as she's next in-line above my great grandmother who I knew as a child.
From what I've found so far I think she spent time in workhouses but if you have any further info I'd be more than grateful for your help.
Many thanks Zoe x
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Hi Sue
Thankyou for your kind msg, I'm interested in it all as she's next in-line above my great grandmother who I knew as a child.
From what I've found so far I think she spent time in workhouses but if you have any further info I'd be more than grateful for your help.
Many thanks Zoe x
There are numerous workhouse admission and discharge records for women named Charlotte ALLEN.
The only one which I could confidently confirm as yours is..
Charlotte Allen. CofE.
Admitted at Southwark/Camberwell
Wife of Fredk M, an engineer.
Discharge.
Reason for discharge-Transferred to Infirmary
Remarks-Mental.
After this, I have not made another definite sighting for Charlotte
The couple appear on the 1901 census with daughters Rose and Ethel and marriages of the children, Albert Edward, Charles and Ethel are digitally available to view. I will search further for Lottie Louisa ALLEN, baptised 1889
Frederick ALLEN was registered to vote in 1907 and at the same address as the 1911. 14 Bergham Mews
Frederick ALLEN is in 1911 census and is a lodger with a family named BOND.
Sue
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Yes the only one I was sure about was the Southwark/Camberwell one too.
There is another discharge book that mentions transfer to Horton Asylum so she may have ended up there bless her, im just not 100% sure.
I'd be very grateful for Charles Allen's marriage info as he disappeared off to Australia and was never heard from again so every little clue helps with him! Lol
Also not sure who Lottie Louisa ALLEN is?
Many thanks x
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About Lottie.
Lottie Louisa ALLEN is very confusing. May be just a coincidence of names. Not sure.
Baptism parish of St John the Baptist. Middlesex. Year 1889.
June 9th.
Lottie Louisa child of Frederick and Charlotte ALLEN. 39 Elmore Street. He an Engineer.
Births Dec 1879
ALLEN Lottie Louisa
St. Saviour
1d/177
GRO information.
ALLEN, Lottie Louisa
Mother's maiden surname NOURISH
GRO Reference 1879 D Quarter
ST SAVIOUR SURREY
Volume 01D Page 177
I do not see Lottie Louisa living with the family you are researching .
Sue
ADDING
I think I see another child to the couple ALLEN and NOURISH, so that probably confirms Lottie Louisa as not related to your family. Just a coincidence of parental names and occupations!
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About Lottie.
Lottie Louisa ALLEN is very confusing. May be just a coincidence of names. Not sure.
Baptism parish of St John the Baptist. Middlesex. Year 1889.
June 9th.
Lottie Louisa child of Frederick and Charlotte ALLEN. 39 Elmore Street. He an Engineer.
Births Dec 1879
ALLEN Lottie Louisa
St. Saviour
1d/177
GRO information.
ALLEN, Lottie Louisa
Mother's maiden surname NOURISH
GRO Reference 1879 D Quarter
ST SAVIOUR SURREY
Volume 01D Page 177
I do not see Lottie Louisa living with the family you are researching .
Sue
Yes I think she might just be a very close coincidence of names..
My grandmother was a hive of information for family names and names and dates and I don't recall that name ever being mentioned although strangely close coincidence so still a possibility.
I'll leave you in peace now I'm sorry but thanks so much for all your help!! x
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You were interested in seeing this marriage.
Charles and Beatrice.
At St Matthews Church in the Parish of Hammersmith, London
April 15th 1900
Charles ALLEN, 21 years. Bachelor. Soldier. Address St James, Milton Portsmouth. Father
Frederick ALLEN, Engineer.
Beatrice GAMBIER. 20 years. Spinster. 18 Spring Vale Terrace. Father Thomas GAMBIER A signal fitter.
Married after banns. Both signed. Witnesses Albert ALLEN (presumably the brother) Margaret ??(possibly Prentice).
This couple can be seen 11 years later with children.
Sue
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Yes the only one I was sure about was the Southwark/Camberwell one too.
I'd be very grateful for Charles Allen's marriage info as he disappeared off to Australia and was never heard from again so every little clue helps with him! Lol
Many thanks x
Hi Zoe,
Well I am not so sure Charles did leave England,
The 1911 census shows his address as 8 Amoy Place Limehouse and he and Beatrice can be seen there to 1915.
Then there is a possible change of address, but then by 1923 they are at 8 Amoy Place again.
They are on the 1939 Register, at another address, with others and his previous occupation is unchanged Police Officer. And the birth dates tally.
Sue
Sue
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Yes the only one I was sure about was the Southwark/Camberwell one too.
I'd be very grateful for Charles Allen's marriage info as he disappeared off to Australia and was never heard from again so every little clue helps with him! Lol
Many thanks x
Hi Zoe,
Well I am not so sure Charles did leave England,
The 1911 census shows his address as 8 Amoy Place Limehouse and he and Beatrice can be seen there to 1915.
Then there is a possible change of address, but then by 1923 they are at 8 Amoy Place again.
They are on the 1939 Register, at another address, with others and his previous occupation is unchanged Police Officer. And the birth dates tally.
Sue
Sue
Thankyou very much,all that info is wonderful thank you! :)
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Following on from find for the marriage by osprey, here are the details.
March 39th 1875. At the District Church in the parish of St Mary Magdalene, Southwark.
Alfred ALLEN and Charlotte MARSHALL. He Bachelor, she widow. Both of full age. His occ. engineer. Both of Alfred Place. His father Thomas ALLEN, a smith. Her father John LAMB, a gunsmith. Married after banns. Both signed. Witnesses John NOBLE and Annie ALLEN.
Sue
Hi Sue if you have a spare moment please could I ask your help again in regards to Fred/Alfred above..
I'd be so grateful... Thanku!! 😊
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Following on from find for the marriage by osprey, here are the details.
March 39th 1875. At the District Church in the parish of St Mary Magdalene, Southwark.
Alfred ALLEN and Charlotte MARSHALL. He Bachelor, she widow. Both of full age. His occ. engineer. Both of Alfred Place. His father Thomas ALLEN, a smith. Her father John LAMB, a gunsmith. Married after banns. Both signed. Witnesses John NOBLE and Annie ALLEN.
Sue
Hi Sue if you have a spare moment please could I ask your help again in regards to Fred/Alfred above..
I'd be so grateful... Thanku!! 😊