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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Banks2233 on Monday 09 July 18 00:21 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have on my Ancestry tree the above surname (they are few and far between) but going back I have hit a brick wall. John Harold McHamilton (Snr) B-1870 Shetlands D-1958 Australia. He married Rosa May Callander B-1879 Maldon,Vic D-1968. As far as I know 1 child JH McHamilton (Jnr) B-1910 D-1989. Would you be able to search to see if there are other McHamiltons in the UK, and they seem to be seamen also. I do have their war records for Australia, but I think the UK will show more records??
Jan ;D
I found a record with the place of birth as being "Shetland"
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IS this the record you found for John Harold?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8055925
It's his medal card from the First World War Mercantile Marine Medals records.
Does it not tell you any further details?
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There is a really good site here or Shetland research
https://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/searchform.php
but I can't find any reference to the McHamiltons on it - it might come in useful in the future - you
never know!
You can search Merchant NAvy Seamen Records 1835 - 1941 here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1762440
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Hi goldie61,
Yes it's the same thing I found, but I haven't paid to look further, as I am helping a lady from England who messaged me through Ancestry. I have the same surname on my tree also, in fact they are buried near to where I live in Sydney. I think I will pass on this information you gave me.
Jan
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John Harold McHamilton's 1958 NSW death entry says his father was John James McHamilton and his mother was named Hettie.
(Hettie? Esther?)
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Possible father from the Familysearch records??
John James Hamilton
1881 Scotland Census in Sandwich & Cunningsburgh RD, Shetland
John James Hamilton age 51 b Kirkcudbright
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Hi whiteout7,
Was Hettie a second wife of Snr? I have her name as Rosa May Callander. John Harold McHamilton Jnr married Elizabeth Walker Ritchie and then Albert Edgar Thrush, the latter two buried in the same plot.
With your second post, have they dropped the Mc, which I guess is quite possible.
Jan
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No
Hettie is the mother of John Harold McHamilton.
New South Wales Death Registration:
MCHAMILTON JOHN HAROLD 11744/1958 (Father)JOHN JAMES (Mother)HETTIE (death registration district) PETERSHAM
John James McHamilton and Hettie probably lived in Shetland at some point ......
Rosa May McHamilton <-----John Harold McHamiltons wife
New South Wales Death Registration:
MCHAMILTON ROSA MAY 13836/1968 (father)ROBERT (Mother)FANNY (death registration district) KOGARAH
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From whiteout7's earlier mention of a possible 1881 census entry in the Shetlands, this looks to be the family's entry:
John James Hamilton 51, mine manager b. Kirkcudbright
Mary Hamilton 39 b. Brazil
Mary H Hamilton 17 b. Chile
Ellen Hamilton 14 b. Chile
George Hamilton 12 b. Chile
...and two house servants
Address: Leebitton, Dunrossness, Shetland
No sign of a John born 1870 here :-\
Monica
PS: This is the official pay to view site for Scottish BMDs www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk There are no M*cHamilton BMDs entries showing on it.
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Mother Mary showing as Head of household and still married with the three children in Hammersmith London for 1891. This family looks to be a red herring from what we have so far unfortunately.
Monica
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Thank you all for your help. It's not an easy surname to find information for. But what you have will be great to check further.
Jan.
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Tony Gott's Shetland site has Hamilton's but no McHamilton's. Very strange name!
https://www.bayanne.info/
Skoosh.
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And very frustrating to find anything that relates to them.
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John Harold McHamilton Snr has a war gratuity file, shame we can't read it online:
Papers created in relation to the application for a War Gratuity by servicemen and women who had served Australia in the Naval Forces in World War 1. <---- did he serve Australia in the merchant marines as well?? I though he had british medal card?
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/SeriesDetail.aspx?series_no=CP979/2&singleRecord=T
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What does A89 as a place of birth mean?
Unfortuately Trove Au does not have this issue of the Propeller
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Must be a parish number, just check Hamilton. Possibly McHamilton is just some clerk's error & it stuck.
Skoosh.
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I'm not sure there is another group of unassisted McHamiltons that came to (Sydney?) in Australia from Germany on the Oldenburgh in Victorian shipping records
Germany was a major trading partner with the Shetlands for salted fish.
I wonder if these people were relatives:
Age Ship Name
18 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, ---- MISS
21 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, ---- MISS
24 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, H MR
54 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, A M
https://prov.vic.gov.au/search_journey/select?keywords=mchamilton
Then John Harold McHamilton married Rosa May Callander in 1909 in Victoria
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I have had an answer back from the website "North Island Family History", he has done a thorough search on the McHamilton name, not a one found. So it's either what Skoosh suggests, or they are from Germany, or he was illegitimate and took a familiar version of the name. I'm now officially confused.
Jan.
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IS this the record you found for John Harold?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8055925
Just a thought ???
"Medal Card of McHamilton, John Harold
Place of Birth Shetland
Date of Birth 1869" *
Hoping this doesn't muddy the waters/put obstacles in the way but I wonder if John was actually illegitimate?
I also wonder would it be easy to confuse Shetland with Orkney?
Found this birth;
HAROLD JOHN 1869 *
024/ 31 Rousay and Egilsay (Orkney)
1871 census shows him living with g/parents;
John Johnston 58
Elisabeth Johnston 55
Agnes Johnston 18
John Harrold 1
This John has Agnes named as his mother but someone has posted a note to say it was Agnes' sister Jean who was his mother.
However, if brought up by his g/parents & as g/parents names were John & Elizabeth (Betty) could the name Hetty have been an error for Betty :-\
If his father was a John (Hamilton/McHamilton) he would have been using his birth father's surname & when asked the name of his father, gave his forename as John (same as g/father) & a possible mix up with the name of his mother who was actually his g/mother?
Best I can describe the scenario in my head, hope it does make sense but may well be far off but it was just a thought?
Annie
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Hi Rosinish,
Anything is possible, as I'm finding with this person, or the lack there of. It's just such a confusing subject. Anyway I will continue this tomorrow as it's midnight here and my brain is overloaded.
Jan
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Re John Harold on the 1871 census with his grandparents.
Orkney birth index already posted by Rosinish
He was born on 21 Oct 1869, son of John Harold and Jean Johnston ( Family Search)
Can find no trace of a marriage for these parents.
I have a seat booked at the SP centre for tomorrow and will look at this birth.
EDIT: Not a single McHamilton birth for anywhere in Scotland on Family Search
None anywhere/ anytime on Scotland's People. No births, deaths or marriages on OPRs or Statutory records.
The name McHamilton doesn't seem to exist
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That's very kind of you Anne!
I'm probably way off, basically a bit of lateral thinking being as the surname even if Hamilton isn't to be found in those areas.
I haven't checked any other census' nor deaths for John Har(r)old!
There's no Johns born with middle name Harold although there's another possible but there's a few named John with Henry as a middle name :-\
HENRY (surname) JOHN HARRISON (middle name) 1870
005/ 40 Lerwick (Shetland)
I haven't checked out any census or death records for the ones on SP.
Annie
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The last name of Harold/Harrold seems quite common on Orkney and John Harold b 1869 may have married there which would eliminate him.
I will check anyway.
Something else that is noticeable
I can't see a single birth, death or marriage in Shetland for anyone named Harold/Harrold
If this man was born on Shetland, his birth name was not McHamilton, Harold or Harrold
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HENRY (surname) JOHN HARRISON (middle name) 1870
005/ 40 Lerwick (Shetland)
John Harrison Henry has parents George Wooler Henry & Robina Irvine so can be ruled out.
Annie
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Annie, I think the John Harrold you found from Orkney may likely have lived and died there (1955). He shows in the censuses up to 1901 working as a farm servant. The 1901 entry shows him likely married to a Maggie Ann and with two young daughters.
Monica
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Jan, has the lady you are helping out considered getting the marriage reg for John to Rosa May Callander? No use of course if parents' names and details are not included (I am not sure on this :-\).
Monica
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I'm not sure there is another group of unassisted McHamiltons that came to (Sydney?) in Australia from Germany on the Oldenburgh in Victorian shipping records
Germany was a major trading partner with the Shetlands for salted fish.
I wonder if these people were relatives:
Age Ship Name
18 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, ---- MISS
21 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, ---- MISS
24 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, H MR
54 305 JAN - 2 F OLDENBURG 1896 MCHAMILTON, A M
https://prov.vic.gov.au/search_journey/select?keywords=mchamilton
Then John Harold McHamilton married Rosa May Callander in 1909 in Victoria
What happened to the 54 year old A M McHamilton (Gender unknown) and the two Miss Hamiltons, one aged 18 and the other aged 21?
The 24 yar old H McHamilton could have been John Harold McHamilton
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I think the John Harrold you found from Orkney may likely have lived and died there (1955). He shows in the censuses up to 1901 working as a farm servant. The 1901 entry shows him likely married to a Maggie Ann and with two young daughters.
Thanks Monica,
It was a bit of a long shot but worth exploring/eliminating ;)
Annie
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Another take on the McHamiltons from the English passenger list index on GenesReunited (same people very different transcription, McHamiltons in Australian shiiping vs plain Hamiltons in UK shipping)
MRS Hamilton
MR A M Hamilton
Miss Anne Hamilton
Miss Mary Hamilton
On the Oldenburgh, leaving South Hampton for Melbourne Victoria in 1895.
Can't see how this is accurate?
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Re John Harold b 1869 Orkney.
Monica is right, and as I suspected, he's not the man on the OP
He did marry Maggie Ann Sinclair in 1894 and they were still on the island, still having children well into the 1900's
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I'm not sure where I can go from here, Other than ordering the marriage certificate which may or may not show the parents. The paper trail doesn't exist for Shetland so really that's a dead end. The most information I have is his career as a chief chef on passenger ships and the electoral rolls, and the possibility of his grandchildren still living in the area which is nearby to where I am anyway.
It seems he wanted his previous life to be totally non existent.
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Jan, not sure how you are possibly going to make any headway without at least cheching the 1908 Victoria marriage reg. Victoria BMDs can be excellent. Marriages, as you know, can include:
Places & dates of birth; ages; places of residence when married; parents' names; occupations of fathers; maiden names of mothers; groom's occupation; place & date of marriage
I think we have confirmed that McHamilton is not a registered surname (ever) in Scotland from records on Scotlands People.
Nothing also jumping out so far for a birth for him in Shetland is there :-\
Hard one for you for sure.
Monica
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Possible father from the Familysearch records??
John James Hamilton
1881 Scotland Census in Sandwich & Cunningsburgh RD, Shetland
John James Hamilton age 51 b Kirkcudbright
This would/could fit for the birth of John James but won't help with birth of son John Harold?
HAMILTON JOHN JAMES
GEORGE HAMILTON/JANE GORDON FR391 (Parents)
19/05/1829
871/20 39 Kirkcudbright
Annie
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I don't know if these people are connected, but just finding McHamilton is so rare I needed to put them down on paper. Some were born much later, so ill only write the early ones and those that have passed. They were on the free BMD site.
Jean McHamilton B-09/1936 Bermondsey, Surrey.
Brian G McHamilton B-09/38 Camperwell
Jock McHamilton D-June 1940 Camperwell Age 38
There are more but I won't put them here.
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I am unclear as to who it is you are related to.
John Harold McHAMILTON married in 1909 in Victoria. The marriage certificate should give his age, place of birth, father's name and occupation and mother's name including her maiden surname. Do you not have this certificate?
Debra :)
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Hi Dundee,
McHamilton's wife was a Callander, Callander, Horne and Harmer all are in my tree, going sideways. A lady in the UK messaged me for help, and noticed I had the surname in my tree. I will look into it, now realising how difficult a surname it has become. Won't be for a week or so as I am in Tasmania visiting.
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The son is M'Hamilton here:
"The Daily Telegraph (Sydney, NSW : 1883 - 1930) Fri 17 May 1929
£300 for Broken Leg.— John Harold M'Hamilton, Hurstville, in the District Court yesterday secured £300 damages from Thomas J. Younger, railway employee, of Kogarah, in respect of a broken leg, received whenhe was run down by .Younger's motor-car while cycling along Forest -
Road, Hurstville, last August."
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Yet another error, but it is him. Isn't it any wonder he was hit on Forest Road, I know it well and it's a very busy Road. I cannot believe you found the article, I've been searching through trove looking for marriage or death notices, nothing yet.
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Out of pure curiosity, I did a search on SP for name John Harold & left surname blank 1869 - 1871
Only 2 have shown in whole of Scotland & both are Harold John ::)
CRAIG HAROLD JOHN 1871
570/ 9 Lochwinnoch (Renfrew)
ROSS HAROLD JOHN 1869
888/ 30 Kirkcowan (Dumfries & Galloway)
John Harold Hamilton appears to have been born outside Scotland or under a different name?
The marriage is the only possible way forward for his mothers' name (if the true info. was given).
I checked 1871 census (Shetland) for name Henrietta (Hetty), a few names show, one as a servant but no child with her & I can't see a 'fitting' John in other households.
John Harolds' age may be out from what OP has & if so, by how many yrs is unknown?
Annie
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Maybe getting hot ???
John Hamilton
10 Jul 1868
DALRY, KIRKCUDBRIGHT
Father John Hamilton
Mother Helen Ireland (Could she be Hetty)?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYBM-N29
Annie
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Marriage;
HAMILTON JOHN & IRELAND HELEN
1866
865/ 3
Dalry (Kirkcudbright)
Now to check 1871
Annie
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1871 (Transcribed as Hampton) on Anc* but a note by someone with name Hamilton
Address - Laight Cottage, Dalmellington, Ayrshire
John Hampton 32 (Occupation - Agnestlmae Sacona) ???
Hellen Hampton 37
Alexd Hampton 4
John Hampton 2
Thomas Marwell 17
John Murphy 23
Annie
Add, By 1901 John (2) is a Joiner & married to Jane living in Hutchesontown, Lanark :-\
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Annie, looks more like an affliction than a job! ;D
Skoosh.
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"This would/could fit for the birth of John James but won't help with birth of son John Harold?
HAMILTON JOHN JAMES
GEORGE HAMILTON/JANE GORDON FR391 (Parents)
19/05/1829
871/20 39 Kirkcudbright"
There are some notes that mention George Hamilton and Jane Gordon here, in relation to a Hamilton family in Maitland, New South Wales, Australia.
https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/b/e/g/Linda-Begg/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0010.html
Their birth records seem to be confusing too
Who knows if they are related to John Harold McHamilton
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Annie, looks more like an affliction than a job! ;D
Maybe a foreign language ;D as in 1881 occ. is clearly "Agr. Labourer"
1871 (Transcribed as Hampton) on Anc* but a note by someone with name Hamilton
Address - Laight Cottage, Dalmellington, Ayrshire
John Hampton 32 (Occupation - Agnestlmae Sacona) ???
Hellen Hampton 37
Alexd Hampton 4
John Hampton 2
Thomas Marwell 17
John Murphy 23
Add, By 1901 John (2) is a Joiner & married to Jane living in Hutchesontown, Lanark :-\
1881 Family at same address with John now remarried
John Hamilton 41 (Agr. Labourer)
Jane Hamilton 40
Alexander Hamilton 14
John Hamilton 12
Robert Hamilton 9
1891 same address
John Hamilton 52 (Agricultural Lab)
Jane Hamilton 50
Robert Hamilton 19
Mary Hamilton 6
So whether this family is somehow related the the family Monica found in Shetland in 1881 is anyones guess but both families have a Kirkcudbright connection hence my posting as it may come in handy at a later date?
John Hamilton Sr. also b Kirkcudbright same as John James who was in Shetland!
Annie
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HAMILTON JOHN JAMES
GEORGE HAMILTON/JANE GORDON FR391 (Parents)
19/05/1829
871/20 39 Kirkcudbright"
There are some notes that mention George Hamilton and Jane Gordon here, in relation to a Hamilton family in Maitland, New South Wales, Australia.
https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/b/e/g/Linda-Begg/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0010.html
Their birth records seem to be confusing too
Who knows if they are related to John Harold McHamilton
I'm confused too! I'm struggling to see any link with John James & John Harold among them or am I missing something ???
Annie
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I am so confused I think I may need to have a beverage or two🤔🤔🤔
We are clutching at anything,
Back to basics, I'm looking again at the possible families that may still be in my area,here.
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Well I finally found some great information by going back over some research.
I looked more intently at Births Deaths and Marriages, and found them all. John Harold McHamilton's father was John James McHamilton and mother Hettie, that's it so far.
Maybe if we could look at these names and find where they are, now that I have Definate names.
Jan.
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John Harold McHamilton's father was John James McHamilton and mother Hettie, that's it so far.
Maybe if we could look at these names and find where they are, now that I have Definate names.
Jan.
We don't know whether Hettie/Hetty is her given name nor do we know her maiden name i.e. the marriage of John Harold is where I'd be looking.
From Monica;
"John James Hamilton 51, mine manager b. Kirkcudbright
Mary Hamilton 39 b. Brazil
Mary H Hamilton 17 b. Chile
Ellen Hamilton 14 b. Chile
George Hamilton 12 b. Chile
...and two house servants
Address: Leebitton, Dunrossness, Shetland
No sign of a John born 1870 here :-\"
I'm not convinced at all as to John Harold being the 'legitimate' son of John James at this point!
He's not on the above 1881 census nor is there a birth for him in Shetland with that name.
The mother on 1881 is named Mary not Hettie/Henrietta/Esther & it's the mother's name you need to progress which should be on his marriage.
Annie
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If the Victorian marriage certificate says fathers name John James McHamilton and Hettie and John Harold McHamiltons birthplace is Shetland, then we are not much further ahead!
You would hope if would have Hetties correct name and surname on it!
Somehow the information on it needs to be looked at
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Harold Mchamilton
Event Type Burial
Event Place Armidale Shire, New South Wales, Australia
Age 37
Birth Year (Estimated) 1889
Death Date 05 Sep 1926
Cemetery Armidale General Cemetery: Presbyterian section
His father was Joseph McHamilton and his mother Ann
His death registration: HAMILTON HAROLD M 11406/1926 JOSEPH ANNE ARMIDALE
Not helpful that it says Harold M Hamilton not Harold McHamilton!
This Harold McHamilton was born in Australia
HAMILTON HAROLD MCC 1167/1889 V18891167 161 JOSEPH ANN
Parents do not appear to have been married in NSW, this family is possibly Irish too
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Well I finally found some great information by going back over some research.
I looked more intently at Births Deaths and Marriages, and found them all. John Harold McHamilton's father was John James McHamilton and mother Hettie, that's it so far.
Maybe if we could look at these names and find where they are, now that I have Definate names.
Jan.
Can you then please tell us what's on John Harolds birth (where he was born & his mothers name/maiden name) as well as what's on the others who are named on 1881 census if this is the same family? Do they all have the same mother & is she Mary or Hettie?
Annie
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"John Harold McHamilton (Snr) B-1870 Shetlands D-1958 Australia. He married Rosa May Callander B-1879 Maldon,Vic D-1968. As far as I know 1 child JH McHamilton (Jnr) B-1910"
What is John Harolds' occ. on the birth of J H (Jnr)?
What age was John Harold (Snr) when he married & does it tie with his age when he died?
Annie
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I am always optimistic on discoveries to be found....however, I think without sight of the 1909 marriage for JH to Rosa we are likely stuck for now :-\
Getting the feeling JH may have run off and changed his history to start a new life.... ::) :-\ He is consistent on a birth date of 1869-70 and Shetland birth place. Is that accurate? Who is to say at this point, but that is all we have so far really.
I once helped someone from Australia who grew up as a McKenzie (father supposedly from Paisley) who couldn't find anything on his roots. Turned out he was London boy and surname was Love.
Monica
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Merry Christmas in July ;D
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It certainly is ;D
JH still playing things close to his chest! Can't easily make out Hettie's maiden name...what's new ::)
I can see I think Mc Hexxx
As possible variants for Hettie, www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=hettie
Dundee, from your attachment, a clip on JH's parents:
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Also from the attachment, JH's father, John James McHamilton shows as alive in 1909 at the time of JH's marriage and being in the Imperial Navy. What is the Imperial Navy :-\ Closest I can come to is...Star Wars ::) Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Navy
Rosa's father Robert showing as deceased, so they did seem to state and annotate whether their fathers were alive or deceased in 1909.
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My last question on this cert which I can't make out. The place name JH gives for his birth place in the Shetland Isles. Annie, you are great for this area...can you or anyone else make it out?
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Hettie McHena, maybe?
(McHena/McKena)
Jameston, Shetland Isles. does that exist?
Wonder if he was born in America or something but one parent came from Shetland?
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Great to see the cert. but such an anti-climax ;D
The name of the town/area given looks like Jamestown/Jamestoun & as far as I can see this would be Dunbarton?
Surname looks to be a mis-spelling of possibly McKenna/McNess/(McNeis(h) or similar, very difficult one to decipher?
I have trawled all surnames on 'SP' beginning 'Mc' with H/N/W/K & the above is the best I can come up with although not to say either is correct.
If John James is the father (illegitimately) in Shetland 1881 is it possible John Harold has given his mothers' married name rather than maiden name if she married at a later date?
Could she have really come from Shetland, moved & married further south/west coast & John assumed he was born Shetland?
It would be interesting to find the rest of those children on the 1881 census in Shetland as the coincidence is very strong with such an uncommon surname?
Annie
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I have had a look at FindmyPast "Australian passenger lists" there are 90 result for McHamilton, so it might be worth heading to an Australia libarary and using a free version to browse all the results.
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The majority of those are for John's voyages on coastal ships where he was employed as a cook. The others are transcription errors - 'Mr' being misinterpreted as 'Mc'.
I can find no sign of his existence in Australia prior to his marriage so far. I suspect he wasn't in the RN or had any previous seagoing experience.
Debra :)
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Alfred POTTS was a 23 year old donkeyman from South Shields and John was pushing 50 so he certainly had a sense of humour.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/40233656
Debra :)
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Debra, this one's an enigma with many twists & turns (info. not adding up/matching), see Reply #1
His age seems to match but PoB & mother's name don't although the name John James does exist & there is a John James who was in Shetland.
I believe John (Harold) was indeed illegitimate although possibly related to the John James who was in Shetland?
There's this one who may actually have been his g/father?
HAMILTON JOHN JAMES 06/08/1805
DANIEL HAMILTON/HARIET CAMPBELL FR219 (parents) (Hariet/Hettie)
636/ 10 362
Crawfordjohn (Lanark)
Could his mother have died & he thought she was Hariet/Hettie?
Could he have been brought up with a relation of the John James in Shetland?
It just seems strange he could pick out the place name of Shetland as it's a remote island, miles from mainland Scotland.
His name is not to be found in Scotland let alone Shetland but his age fits almost with the George on the 1881 in Shetland i.e. could he have changed his name for whatever reason but if so, why give his father's correct name yet a different name for his mother...it's a curious one for sure with so many ideas/thoughts/scenarios coming to mind.
Annie
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Sorry I have given you all a real mystery to deal with. I do like a challenge, but this is Possibly the worst one I have come across.
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Debra, this one's an enigma with many twists & turns (info. not adding up/matching), see Reply #1
His name is not to be found in Scotland let alone Shetland but his age fits almost with the George on the 1881 in Shetland i.e. could he have changed his name for whatever reason but if so, why give his father's correct name yet a different name for his mother...it's a curious one for sure with so many ideas/thoughts/scenarios coming to mind.
Annie
George Hamilton born 1869 in Chile can be found in Brentford, England in 1911, with sisters Annie (b 1867) and Mary Hamilton (b1864) both born in Chile. So I'm thinking he is not the same man as John Harold Hamilton born Shetland who married in Australia in 1909.
Added George Hamilton b 1869 Chile died 1951 in London and is buried in Kirkudbright Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/71504200/george-hamilton
John James Hamilton's death (born 1930)
Deaths Mar 1917
Hamilton John J 87 years old Brentford 3a 268
The district Brentford is in the county of Middlesex
His Wifes death (born 1842)
Deaths Mar 1916
Hamilton Mary A S 74 Brentford 3a 180
Mary was "Mary A S Foster"
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Good find whiteout!
I believe elimination is as good as confirmation where/when there's doubt ;D
I discovered the other post last night...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=796634.msg6535060#msg6535060
The link Dundee posted was interesting!
http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/4435993/1
This gave a specific DoB as 1st Jan 1870 although PoB unknown ???
Not sure how the PoB 'Unknown' came about when elsewhere Shetland is stated, furthermore where he enlisted is also 'Unknown'...not very helpful ::)
Anyway, I trawled every birth on Shetland on familysearch (1870) & although not 100% reliable it's 2nd best to SP prior to purchasing genuine docs & found no-one who was male born on 1/1/1870!
It's still very strange why he would pick out a surname so unique who was actually on Shetland :-\
The other thing which puzzles me even more, a change of identity is something but to then change DoB as well as invent a middle name is beyond comprehension as keeping a forename would have been more simple (if it was myself anyway), not to mention the place of Jamestown (Shetland) which doesn't exist (although possibly did once-upon-a-time) although I don't believe so? ;D
Annie
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Like MaxD I believe his British Medal Card occured when he served Britain from Australia.
The date of 30.8.15 Discharged on shore is interesting in itself, "Admiralty, who had took her to Britain and scuttled her in August 1915, in Holm Sound, Scapa Flow, the United Kingdom’s chief naval base during World War I" - Scapa Flow in Orkney
This is also interesting - "she was manned by her New Zealand civilian crew" ((possibly an inaccurate statement!!)) http://www.ssmaritime.com/Aorangi-II.htm
There was a Jamestown in New Zealand once that was colonised by Nova Scotians, Shetlanders and Orkney Islanders. Haven't found a John Harold McHamilton birth in NZ
To be a chief cook he must have been crewing on ships for a small while before 1914 as he was in charge of supplies and possibly other men in the kitchen. This vessel could carry more that 100 passengers.
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The only other explanations, if he was indeed born in Shetland are he was not born by the name he was using or he wasn't registered for whatever reason but I believe him to have changed his name or been illegitimate &/or born elsewhere?
The middle name of 'Harold' may have been his surname although not found in Shetland either 1860 - 1880.
Annie
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This reminds me a bit of John Barney Hines the Liverpool born Australian soldier who left a wife and kids in Liverpool, went down under and changed his name from Heim to Hines and covered up his German parentage. Going to another country gives a person the opportunity to present themselves in a different way and cloud things from their past.
Blue
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A bit like the royal family then! ;D
Skoosh.
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I think it's possible John Henry was born Jamisontown, Zetland, New South Wales, Australia
Having thought about everything, I don't recall any specific mention of Scotland i.e. an error in spellings may be likely or (misunderstanding) :-\
Annie
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Zetland the suburb of Sydney is a good possiblity and then he could have been registered as just "Hamilton" not McHamilton.
He could also have been registered as just "John Hamilton". And like others have said "Hetty" might be a typo/misheard for "Betty"
This guy could be an option
HAMILTON JOHN H W 12141/1867 ELIZABETH MORPETH
Or this one?
HAMILTON JOHN 20133/1873 JAMES ELIZABETH WELLINGROVE
If we could find some other Hamiltons/McHamiltons born in Zetland, NSW or nearby.
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Whiteout,
My concern is the fact where it says Shetland it also has 'Isles', has this been an assumption or what as Shetland was once known as Zetland?
Annie
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At this point, this might be a problem for DNA as there are many Shetland Islands DNA projects.
In Sydney there was a J.McHamilton of Waverly that died in 1916 from wounds (where??)
Also in New Zealand here an A.McHamilton travelling in 1892 to the Wairarapa
Seems odd that a man not clearly proven to be born in a allied country would be attested for WW1 doesn't it, merchant navy must have been less worried about it
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Seems odd that a man not clearly proven to be born in a allied country would be attested for WW1 doesn't it, merchant navy must have been less worried about it
I think they must have known he, at the very least had citizenship & possibly the papers were written in a hurry?
I'm still of the belief he was illegitimate i.e. it would be interesting to find a Hetty/Hettie with a possible match for the surname which is almost undecipherable.
Could he have been an orphan/adopted or whatever?
Finding a death for John James prior to the marriage too would be interesting.
Annie
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John James McHamilton was still alive in 1909 when the wedding took place though according to the marriage certificate of John Harold McHamilton and Rosa May Callender.
Also another clue was that John James Hamilton was in the Imperial Navy (which Navy though??)
(I did find some information that called the AIF the Australian Imperial Forces, was there an Australian Imperial Navy? - evidence: Trove Au article from 1909 titled "Imperial Navy. Australia's Navy" https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/89918192 )
Perhaps Imperial Navy just means the British Navy in which case he should have a naval record at the British Archives
I think John Harold was illegitimate to but a birth registration would be helpful!