RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: Newwriter on Tuesday 10 July 18 13:41 BST (UK)
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Hi Folks,
I have found a rogue in the family who appears to have got a sentence of 7 years at the Brecon Spring Assizes 1870 for burglary. Could anyone help with information about any online records or how I might find archive records relating to the trial please.
It would be good also to know of any newspaper archives which might have covered the trial.
I don't know where he was sent to prison. I have searched the 1871 census without success.
Thanks
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As replied to your Cardiff post - try Welsh Newspapers Online http://newspapers.library.wales/
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Thanks Shaun, I did find a short article in the Western Mail regarding the case. I will look for articles in other newspapers and for the Cardiff case. Thank you
If anyone can help with the court archives I would still be grateful.
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I don't know where he was sent to prison. I have searched the 1871 census without success.
We can take a look for you. Can you give his name, age, place of birth?
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Newwriter -- were you unable to trace these court records on the England and Wales crime records on Find My Past -- as you did with the Wolverhampton case?
These records cover Wales as well - also did you turn the pages of the records on that site? If there is a right hand arrow head on a page - click it and another page for the same person will appear.
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It has also occurred to me that on your Wolverhampton Court query you mentioned that you were in the middle of a trial with Find My Past -- that site has old newspapers which are searchable.
Simply click on 'Search' in the menu running along the top of the home page - and select Newspapers and Periodicals from the drop down menu which appears.
I suggest you input your filters first -- ie your date range and location BEFORE inputting the name you are searching for.
These newspapers cover England, Wales and Scotland (there are separate ones for Ireland also). You may as well take advantage of this resource whilst you are having your trial with the site.
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Thanks all. I did manage to find him in prison in Medway in 1871. He was under one of his alias's. His real name is Thomas Jarman (born in Rhayader) but he also went by the name Thomas Morgan and Gorman. Morgan was the name he was tried under in Brecon and the name I found him with in Medway Prison.
And, as mentioned, I did find an article on the Brecon trial in the Western Mail. I also found some court records for Brecon and Cardiff so I have some fairly detailed accounts of his misdemeanours. As well as a couple he got off with in Llanidloes.
Although I managed to find him in 1871 and I have him and his family in Rhayader in 1851 I can find no sign of him, his father John, his mother Sarah or his four siblings in the 1861 census. Unless it's just me?
Pennines. I will have to go back and try your various suggestions re trying to turn the page and to search newspapers in FindMyPast.
Thanks again everyone. RootsChat is always so reliable for nudging aside a block in my research.
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I think the depleted family are in Merthyr in 1861. Shown with a surname of Jerman.
John (the father) a Widower aged 52 - born Montgomeryshire.
The children still with him, including Thomas are all shown as born Merthyr!
William aged 23 (his wife also present)
'Charlote' aged 14
Thomas aged 12, a Collier.
So not only is their surname mis-spelt, but Charlotte and Thomas's birthplace is also incorrect.
RG9/4053
Or search for Thomas Jerman b 1849 - Merthyr with a father John.
Another child named Ann has been born since 1851 - she is aged 9 in 1861.
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Thanks very much Pennines. I have just realised that FindMyPast defaults variances to the forename but not to the Surname. Thanks for solving my dilemma.
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Newwriter,
Please, please forgive me if you already know this -- but if ever you are struggling to find someone on a census record, or BMD record or whatever - on Find My Past (or Ancestry) -- remove specific birth places and try using a wildcard in the name (ie an Asterisk *).
In the case of Thomas Jarman - I firstly tried searching for him as Jarman - then tried his sister Charlotte -- but eventually found him by searching on Tho* *man --- you can use a wildcard after 3 letters or before 3 letters. Also used 1850 as his birth year plus or minus 2 years --- and born in Wales (ie no place or county).
(That's what it used to be regarding wildcards anyway -- the number of required letters MAY have been reduced by now, but I have always used 3 either before -- or after a wildcard.) No doubt someone involved in this thread will let us know if there has been a change.
I hope this info is of some use (if you didn't already know it of course!)
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Hi Pennines,
Had I read your last post on Thursday when you posted it it would have been very useful to me. However I actually looked up how to use wildcards over the weekend when looking for someone else. So when I read your post today it made me smile.
But thank you again for all of your help and advice. It has given me a much better picture of my rogue great granddad and helped me to keep track of his father, as well as how to get the best use out of FindMyPast
Best Wishes.
Newwriter
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Newwriter --- do you mean to actually tell me you ignored my post!! How could you? (I am only joking).
I am so pleased that you are getting somewhere with your research.
Regards and Good Luck.
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Hi Pennines,
Thanks so much for your advice. I have hit the jackpot. I have never really noticed that little arrow by the side of an image before that says there are more pages to the image. If I have I supposed that they just went to the next record like the census documents.
So anyway, last Friday I went back to check on something, clicked the arrow and boom! As you said, my great granddad's photograph appeared. Not just that, it was his whole prison record. 50 pages in all. ;D
There were actually two photographs taken about 7 years apart.
Coincidentally we were having a family birthday celebration that night and I was able to produce the photographs for everyone to see. Not everyone was impressed by my revelation of his nefarious lifestyle though.
Thank you so much for your advice.
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Newwriter -- I am SO pleased for you.
I think everyone at your party should have been impressed. It's wonderful having a 'colourful' ancestor - someone you can talk about.
Far more interesting than the normal ones. I have NEVER known one have 50 pages of criminal papers before -- I wonder if that is some sort of record!
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He did have quite a criminal record anyway but the papers include pages for both 7 year sentences and each has pages of medical records, pages of "marks earned", pages of prison offences, pages of his petitions to the Secretary Of State (really requests to the prison Governor), movement papers as he moved from prison to prison AND even a letter from my Great Grandmother and signed by her.
So I can't thank you enough.