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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 12 July 18 22:36 BST (UK)

Title: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 12 July 18 22:36 BST (UK)
Hi
I'm looking for relatives from Ireland. James McGreevy born about 1864 in Roscommon. This is only hearsay from family members i have not found proof yet that it was Roscommon. James married Bridget Loftus born 1870 Burslem. They married in 1893 in Wolstanton. On the marriage certificate his father James is deceased and was a labourer. James residence is given as 9 Mayers Bank Burslem. I don't know his mother's name.I don't know when he came to England or if his family came too.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Sinann on Friday 13 July 18 00:33 BST (UK)
Of the six James McGreevy whose births were registered in a Roscommon district between 1864 and 1870 none had a father James.
If he was born before 1864 he won't have a birth cert in which case you would need a Baptisim, for that ideally you need to know where he came from, townland or parish and his religion of course.

Even if you do find a James with father James you can't be sure you have the correct one without more identifying information.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Friday 13 July 18 01:53 BST (UK)
If you search below (free) for James McGreevy of Burslem, you will see his more specific birthplace mentioned in the 1911 census: 

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/1911-census-for-england-and-wales

Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Friday 13 July 18 06:51 BST (UK)
Hi
I've found them on 1911 census at 17 May st Burslem. It says he was born in Creevy, Roscommon.
Thanks
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Saturday 14 July 18 06:37 BST (UK)
Hi
They were Catholic but unfortunately that's about all i  know. There isn't anyone around now that has any more information.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 14 July 18 06:59 BST (UK)
Creevy is in the RC parish of Loughglynn but there is a gap in Baptisims from April 1863 to January 1865
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0557

RootsIreland (Subscription) have 1817 to 1900 listed for the parish but it's possible they have the same gap.
http://roscommon.rootsireland.ie/generic.php?filename=centres/roscommon/sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 14 July 18 07:36 BST (UK)
Griffith's Valuation shows only one potential name candidate in Creevy, a Winifred 'Greevy' (print date 1857):
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

Clutching at straws now, but my best guess is that IF there were any later siblings born there (Added: siblings to your James who married Bridget Loftus), they would have been registered at Ballaghadreen, Castlerea (though note that Creevy isn't far from the county border with Mayo) - anyway, there was the following 1865 birth of a son Michael to James 'Greavy' and Margaret Toolan of Creevy:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03549/2306369.pdf

Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 14 July 18 07:50 BST (UK)
And there was the death of a James 'Greavy' of Creevy in 1891:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06068/4730150.pdf

The informant for the above registration was a daughter Catherine - this may have been her getting married in 1893 (added: note the Toolan witnesses):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10591/5858433.pdf

There was also a Maria Greevy of Creevy (born c. 1854 with a father named James) who got married in 1881:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10994/8019778.pdf

Edited to add: And a widow Margaret Greevy who died in 1903, Catherine was the informant again:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05659/4593214.pdf

In 1901: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Artagh_North/Creevy/1660484/

But I'm not yet getting a warm fuzzy feeling about any of this, it's just too speculative at this point.

Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 14 July 18 19:20 BST (UK)
You could join Loughglynn parish on Ireland Reaching Out website and post an enquiry.
https://www.irelandxo.com
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Saturday 14 July 18 20:08 BST (UK)
Thank you maiden stone have joined irelandxo.com and i have posted a message on their boards.
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Saturday 14 July 18 20:19 BST (UK)
Hi Gaffy
James and was definitely deceased by 1893 according to James jnr  marriage certificate.
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 14 July 18 21:55 BST (UK)

Hi Gaffy
James and was definitely deceased by 1893 according to James jnr  marriage certificate.
Regards
Wendy


Which fits with what I've posted but that fact doesn't propel it beyond the bounds of a possibility.  The name McGreevy / Greevy (and variants) was hardly unique in the wider Roscommon (and Mayo) vicinity and you really need something more to tie the James in Burslem to the family I posted, eg. in the way of a baptism or something else indicating the mother's surname for the James in Burslem.  I'm not arguing against what I posted (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it in the first place), but IMHO it is no more than a possibility at this point.

Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 06:57 BST (UK)
Hi gaffy
Yes I've been trying to find census record's to see when they came to England. But couldn't see them in Burslem prior to 1901 when it was James and Bridget. Don't know if James parents stayed in Ireland or if they came to England.
It's really hard going
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 15 July 18 07:24 BST (UK)
The 1901 census indicated a birth year for James of 1863, the balance of probability favours James having been born pre civil registration, I would assume 1863 to early 1864 (although I wouldn't rule out even earlier), it is indeed unfortunate that there is the gap in the Loughglynn parish baptisms pointed out at Reply #5, that really hasn't helped one little bit.

BTW, note that living with the family in their Burslem household in 1901 was a widowed 56 year old labourer called Michael Murphy, born in Ireland and described as an uncle (ie. of head of household).

Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 07:48 BST (UK)
Hi Gaffy
Yes Michael Murphy is Bridget's unc!e her mother's brother. I've just looked for a death of James Mcgreevy. I found one in 1923 a/m/m stoke on trent with the relevant numbers but when I went on GRO to search the death it's not there. I though it may give me a mother's maiden name.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 08:00 BST (UK)
Hi
The death record states he was 58 when he died in 1923 and gives a birth date of 1865.

Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 15 July 18 08:12 BST (UK)

Hi
The death record states he was 58 when he died in 1923 and gives a birth date of 1865.

Wendy


The death record generally was one of the more unreliable indicators of birth year for several reasons, not least that the accuracy was dependent on the informant and that age at death was at the furthest end (from birth) of someone's timeline in an era when folk simply didn't observe birthdays and age in the same way they do today.
 
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 09:19 BST (UK)
I know my dad had an aunt who celebrated her birthday on a specific date for years only to find she had the wrong birth date.
Irish records are so hard to find and prove.
I've even put in Mcgreevy in family search to see what it comes up with but can't find anything
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 15 July 18 18:15 BST (UK)
Hi Gaffy
 I've just looked for a death of James Mcgreevy. I found one in 1923 a/m/m stoke on trent with the relevant numbers but when I went on GRO to search the death it's not there. I though it may give me a mother's maiden name.
Wendy
English death certificates don't give mother's maiden names.
When you searched GRO Index did you put his age at death? Try leaving it out. Some ages in GRO have been wrongly transcribed. Where did you find the Stoke 1923 death? If it was from a local BMD website the reference number will be different to GRO.
The GRO site wasn't behaving itself for me yesterday. Neither was the Irish Civil Registrations site. Got a message on the latter saying that I'd logged onto  an "unsafe website".    ??? Is it just me?
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: bevo on Sunday 15 July 18 18:30 BST (UK)

There's a probate record of a James McGreevy of 112 Dartmouth Street  Burslem died 12th of April 1923. Probate in London to the Reverend William Browne, clerk
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 15 July 18 18:44 BST (UK)
Hi gaffy
Yes I've been trying to find census record's to see when they came to England. But couldn't see them in Burslem prior to 1901 when it was James and Bridget. Don't know if James parents stayed in Ireland or if they came to England.
It's really hard going
Regards
Wendy

Have you looked for them separately on an English census as children or young people? One of my Irish couples are missing from 1891 English census; I assume they went to Ireland to show-off their first-born baby son. They are both on 1881 census, the young man as a farm labourer in lodgings, the girl with her parents a few miles away. Btw aforesaid baby was born at home of his grandparents who by then had moved to a town about 15 miles away. This was in keeping with an Irish tradition of a woman going to her mother's house for birth of first-born.
Another Irish couple, or the woman at least, moved between North-West and North-East England and back again, children born in both regions.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 15 July 18 18:59 BST (UK)
There's a death registration in GRO Index for James McGREWY age 58
 GRO Reference: 1923 J quarter; Stoke-on-Trent and Burslem Volume 06B page 128

I got it by leaving out district box empty. My 1st search attempt for James McGreevy (phonetic search option on surname and derivative names of forename) 1923, Stoke-on-Trent gave no result.
If this was James McGreevy you can submit a suggestion for an amendment.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 15 July 18 19:21 BST (UK)
Endorsing gaffy's reply #16 about recorded age at death. Some were very inaccurate, especially of very elderly Irish people born pre civil registration. Death of a member of my family was registered with age 74 when she was around 90.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 19:53 BST (UK)
Hi maiden stone
I got the death from family search but when I put in the information it came up with nothing. Family search had the correct spelling.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 20:06 BST (UK)
Hi maiden stone
What would this death certificate tell me if I sent for it.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 20:08 BST (UK)
Maiden stone
I have tried putting just Mcgreevy in on family search as I don't have any subscriptions but can't find him till after he married.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Sunday 15 July 18 20:10 BST (UK)
Hi bevo
Where did you find probate records from please
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 16 July 18 13:37 BST (UK)
There's a death registration in GRO Index for James McGREWY age 58
 GRO Reference: 1923 J quarter; Stoke-on-Trent and Burslem Volume 06B page 128

I got it by leaving out district box empty. My 1st search attempt for James McGreevy (phonetic search option on surname and derivative names of forename) 1923, Stoke-on-Trent gave no result.
If this was James McGreevy you can submit a suggestion for an amendment.

There's a death of James McGreevy age 58 registered in Burslem sub- district on Staffordshire BMD website. There's no death for James McGrewy on that site. Indexes on Staffordshire BMD are compiled from original registers held at Stoke. They are more likely to be accurate than GRO Index which was compiled from returns sent in by local register offices. GRO Index contains many transcription errors. ( Last week I submitted an amendment form to GRO re my father's birth; a few months ago I corrected surname of an aunt.) Imo James McGrewy death registration 1923 on GRO Index was probably the same man as James McGreevy whose death in 1923 is in Staffordshire BMD index. www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/deathsearch.php
The marriage to Bridget Loftus in 1893 was indexed as McGRAVY on Staffordshire BMD.
Staffordshire BMD is free to use, being one of the FreeBMD projects done by volunteers.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 16 July 18 14:01 BST (UK)
I've filled in a query form about James McGreevy missing from GRO deaths index and possible incorrect transcription as McGrewy.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Monday 16 July 18 22:05 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes I think that someone has transcribed the death certificate wrongly that's why I couldn't find it from familysearch. Thanks maiden stone hopefully they will change it to the correct surname. Yes it does say McGravy but if you have an Irish accent i suppose its sounds like Mcgreevy. I do think this James McGreevy death in 1923 is looking good as to be him.
Would his death certificate tell me much. I suppose it would confirm his address.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 16 July 18 22:22 BST (UK)
Hi bevo
Where did you find probate records from please
Regards
Wendy

It's on the UK Government Find a Will website.
Address of the deceased James McGreevy is on Probate Calendar. Bevo included address in the post.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Monday 16 July 18 22:29 BST (UK)
Maiden stone
I have their marriage certificate and it's McGravy on there.James couldnt write so there was across by his name but Bridget signed her name.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 16 July 18 22:54 BST (UK)
Birth of Mary McGreavy mother's maiden name Collins was registered in Burslem 1868.
John MacGrevey mmn MacDonald registered Tunstall 1860.
Ann MacGravy married to McDermott in Tamworth 1852

All from Staffordshire BMD.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Wednesday 18 July 18 07:35 BST (UK)
I've found a Bridget McGreevy born 1850 Macclesfield mother Mary Collins sibling Mary McGreevy. 1881 census they are in Stockport.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 19 July 18 15:03 BST (UK)
Would his death certificate tell me much. I suppose it would confirm his address.
Wendy

I'm not sure how much information was on death certificates in 1920s.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 19 July 18 15:39 BST (UK)
I've found a Bridget McGreevy born 1850 Macclesfield mother Mary Collins sibling Mary McGreevy. 1881 census they are in Stockport.
Wendy
Collins is a common Irish surname.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 19 July 18 19:35 BST (UK)
Hi
Thank you for all your help anyway I will keep plodding on
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: jonw65 on Thursday 19 July 18 21:15 BST (UK)
Don't forget Staffordshire Burial Indexes
http://www.bmsgh.org/burialsearch/

Burslem Cemetery, Grave ref 921
McGreevy, (buried) June qtr 1923
with
McGreevy, March qtr 1919
McGreevy, June qtr 1922
McGreevey, Dec qtr 1941

Who seem to be Bridget, age 48 (in 1919), Margaret, age 14 (in 1922), James, age 58 (1923) and Thomas Patrick, age 41 (1941)

Great fun, that site!
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 19 July 18 22:57 BST (UK)
Thanks for drawing attention to Staffordshire Burials. I'm going to recommend it to someone else who has Staffordshire & Roscommon ancestry.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Friday 20 July 18 06:40 BST (UK)
Yes thank you didn't know about that.
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 20 July 18 16:34 BST (UK)
There's a death registration in GRO Index for James McGREWY age 58
 GRO Reference: 1923 J quarter; Stoke-on-Trent and Burslem Volume 06B page 128

Name of district was Stoke and Wolstanton.  :-[ I was confused by all the district changes.
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Friday 20 July 18 20:47 BST (UK)
Yes this has to be my James McGreevy the date the in with what I have. Also jonw65 the names you found also the in with James's children.
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Grannie Cornwall on Wednesday 03 August 22 12:52 BST (UK)
These people you’re looking for are my people also.  I can signpost you to Joe who knows everything about them. 
Barbara
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 03 August 22 20:15 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat.
Wendy will hopefully receive a notification that there's a new reply.   
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Wendy Frances on Wednesday 24 August 22 08:56 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes please I am struggling to find anything in Ireland about the McGreevy family.
Regards
Wendy
Title: Re: Irish relatives from Roscommon
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 24 August 22 14:29 BST (UK)
Grannie Cornwall, reply a couple more times, then your personal message option will be activated. You can  exchange private information with Wendy, e.g. about people who are alive, contact details &c. by personal message.