RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Johnf04 on Saturday 14 July 18 01:30 BST (UK)
-
My great uncle, Thomas FARRELL, was born at Stevenston, Ayrshire on 18th January 1893. He married in 1912, and there is a corrected entry attached to his marriage, dated October 1918 granting him a divorce. He is noted as "at present serving in His Majesty's forces". I have looked on Ancestry and FindMyPast, but haven't found a medal card or record for him. Where else could I look?
Note - I don't have a sub to FindMyPast - I've checked the search result only.
-
Are you aware that around 70% of WW1 records were lost in the blitz in WW2? His record might have been destroyed.
-
Yes, I'm aware of that.
-
2 avenues are the local papers & the Absent Voter's Roll (1918).
-
Thanks for the suggestion, Jim - I just checked the British Newspaper Archive, and found 1 reference to Thomas - for his divorce. A search on the Absent Voters list for Scotland produced no results.
John
-
How do you know for certain that one of the MIC's on Ancestry to Thomas Farrell aren't him?
-
The "Thomas Farrell's" in the military records on Find my Past are NOT your guy. But Find my past have him in 1901 Census with an address of Lime Kiln Road, Stevenston, Ayrshire, Scotland (Father Hugh Farrell and Mother Mary)
Familysearch.org have two records: (using his birthplace to search)
Thomas Farrell
United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Thomas Farrell
Event Type: Military Service
Event Year: 1915
Age: 22
Military Company/Regiment: Royal Army Service Corps
Military Regiment: 193536
Birth Year (Estimated): 1893
and same info for 1916. There are images attached to these records but they wont open for me ???
-
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=Thomas+&_ln=Farrell&_no=&_crp=Royal+Army+Service+Corps&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=Thomas+&_ln=Farrell&_no=&_crp=Royal+Army+Service+Corps&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna)
There are two Medal Card records on the National Archives website for "Thomas Farrell" but neither match the number 193536
-
193536 came from Stockport.
-
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=byu440&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&qh=AEvFtaTfK8GzHD%2BsCdwCdQ%3D%3D&db=MedalRolls&gss=angs-d&new=1&gsfn=thomas&gsfn_x=0&gsln=farrell&gsln_x=0&_F00061C3=royal%20army%20service%20corps&MSAV=1&uidh=284&rank=1&pcat=39&fh=0&h=3452581&recoff=9%2010&ml_rpos=1
-
What regiment was he attached to?
there is a record for the Royal Scots Regiment for Thomas Farrell
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2189844
-
There are about 60 MIC's for a Thomas Farrell & dozens more with middle names. He is undoubtedly one of these but with no additional information there's no way of knowing which.
-
How do you know for certain that one of the MIC's on Ancestry to Thomas Farrell aren't him?
Hi there - the details don't match. Thomas's father was Hugh, and his next of kin would have been his wife, Mary. Before the war, at least, he appears to have stayed in Stevenston. After the war, he moved to England - in the 1939 register he is living in Leicestershire. In 1949, he married Janet, whom he was living with in 1939. He died in Leicester in 1950
-
How do you know for certain that one of the MIC's on Ancestry to Thomas Farrell aren't him?
Hi there - the details don't match. Thomas's father was Hugh, and his next of kin would have been his wife, Mary. Before the war, at least, he appears to have stayed in Stevenston. After the war, he moved to England - in the 1939 register he is living in Leicestershire. In 1949, he married Janet, whom he was living with in 1939. He died in Leicester in 1950
Sorry, I must be being incredibly dense, but I still do not understand how you've eliminated all the Thomas Farrell MIC's as being your man.
-
Sorry - I was thinking of the military records there. The medal index cards don't have enough detail to identify them as Thomas. I know nothing more about his service, than that it's mentioned in his divorce.
-
Well, it's certainly possible to drastically reduce the number of MIC's to search and in my opinion would be a good idea.
Firstly, does Thomas have a middle name? If he doesn't eliminate all those.
Secondly, you need to go through assigning other men with service records to the remaining MIC's.
Thirdly, he wasn't KIA so you can eliminate all the Thomas Farrell's who died in WWI.
Fourthly, check the medal rolls of the remaining Thomas Farrell's as you never know what may turn up.
Fifthly, check the SWB lists. If he was still serving for certain in 1918 to there's a good chance anyone invalided out pre 1918 isn't your man.
Sixthly, did he continue in service after the war?
There's a good chance you won't find who you're looking for but if any other info turns up in the future to help you will have done your due diligence and be in a position of knowledge. Quite literally you never know when you might make a breakthrough. For example, just this week I've had a minor breakthrough with a victorian soldier I've been researching for years thanks to a throwaway Lin about an outbreak of enteric fever in the Sudan. So, my advice is to do he work and let it sit, at least you'll know you've done all you can for he moment.
-
Saw119 - thank you for your suggestions. Thomas had the middle name "Burns", and there is a medal card for Thomas B FARRELL for the Hampshire regiment. Is this a likely unit for a Scot to serve in? There is a Thomas B Farrell in the 1939 register, in Devon.....this is not my Thomas, who was in Leicester in 1939.
-
Thomas B Farrell of the Hants. had the middle name Benjamin.
-
Thank you, Jim1. Thomas's use of his middle name was patchy - it was on his birth registration, but he was just "Thomas" in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, and at his first marriage. In the 1939 register, and the indexes for his 2nd marriage and death, he was "Thomas B".
-
Unfortunately even if you discount all of those you know are not him it still leaves a lot of Thomas Farrell's.
Did he have any children during WW1?
-
It's bound to be a slow and tiresome process but's definitely something worth doing.
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?firstName=thomas&lastName=farrell&war=1&tab=wardead&fq_servedwithliteral=United+Kingdom&fq_warliteral=1
-
Unfortunately even if you discount all of those you know are not him it still leaves a lot of Thomas Farrell's.
Did he have any children during WW1?
Thanks for the suggestion Jim1 - I checked on a likely birth in Stevenston in 1917, and found it was to Thomas's wife, but Thomas wasn't the father. A note on the birth says Thomas is a private in the Royal Scots Fusiliers! So there is the reason for his divorce, and his unit!
-
Brilliant. That's what we needed....hopefully.
found 3, 2 in other Regts. prior to RSF.
2 were previously in the HLI before transferring to the RSF.
1. HLI no. 39410-RSF no. 51539
2. HLI no. 31249-RSF no. 43326-HLI no. TR2/40153
The one who was only in the RSF is no. 8563 1/4 Battn. Later re-numbered 200847.
He received the 15 Star along with the BW & V medals. Disembarkation date 6/6/15 theatre Gallipoli.
1/4 was a Territorial Battn. who were re-numbered with a 6 digit no. in 1917.
So down to 3 with last one being favourite I think.
-
The information from the birth -
-
Perserverence was the key and you've made a break through, excellent news.
-
Thank you jim1, saw119 and chinapaddy, for your assistance.
-
Thank you jim1, saw119 and chinapaddy, for your assistance.
Oh, lots, lots more can be done if you want. His service number will be a goldmine. Have you eliminated any of the MIC's yet?
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-royal-scots-fusiliers-in-1914-1918/
-
Thank you jim1, saw119 and chinapaddy, for your assistance.
Oh, lots, lots more can be done if you want. His service number will be a goldmine. Have you eliminated any of the MIC's yet?
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-royal-scots-fusiliers-in-1914-1918/
Jim1's post at 09.51 has the three MICs which are for the Royal Scots Fusiliers. He picked
"The one who was only in the RSF is no. 8563 1/4 Battn. Later re-numbered 200847.
He received the 15 Star along with the BW & V medals. Disembarkation date 6/6/15 theatre Gallipoli." as the most likely. In the snip I added above, Thomas's wife says she has "had no personal connection with him for over 3 years" - this was in October 1917, suggesting he may have joined up in 1914.
-
A bit of circumstantial evidence he is the right man:
His 4 digit no. indicates he was possibly pre-war TF. The 4th. as it was in 1914 were mobilized just after war broke out meaning he was embodied & therefore became a full timer.
TF's would have been raised locally & the 4th's. depot was at Kilmarnock just a few miles from Stevenston. Looks promising.
Although there's no service record for him there is one from another man of the 1/4th. with no. 200467 joined 15/8/1914.
His no. 200847 indicates joining after that so possibly attested into the 4th. & embodied at the same time.
The 4/Batt. diary states that after mobilization they moved to Stirling & that only half of the Batt. had elected for foreign service so the 4 & 5/Batt. formed a composite. During this time recruitment took place & the composite Batt. was broken up & the men returned to their original units by the time they embarked for Gallipoli.
It's safe to say that 200847 joined around Aug. 1914 & went into the composite until he got on the boat.
-
so, there is the word in the remarks column of that MIC. 'Distin.' or 'Destin.'?
As an interesting aside, and something I've noticed on a few other MIC's, someone has written the old Regimental number, 21, of the Royal Scots Fusiliers in the top left hand corner.
-
It was quite often the case that Regt's. were known by their number by the Regulars.
-
It was quite often the case that Regt's. were known by their number by the Regulars.
It just makes me smile given that the numbering of regiments was replaced as long ago as 1881.
-
It does save on confusion considering there were the Royal Scots, Royal Scots (Lothian) & Royal Scots Fus. also all of the history was as the 21st. Regt. of Foot.
As another aside he was in Palestine at the time of the birth & probably didn't ask for leave to attend.
-
so, there is the word in the remarks column of that MIC. 'Distin.' or 'Destin.'?
Disem.=disembodied which is the correct term for a man in the TF.
-
so, there is the word in the remarks column of that MIC. 'Distin.' or 'Destin.'?
Disem.=disembodied which is the correct term for a man in the TF.
Of course that's what it is