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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BronwenS on Sunday 15 July 18 00:23 BST (UK)
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Kia ora
This is what I have - am interested to find out how Edwin's parents were and where and when born etc. Also trying to find where are they are buried. Possibly St Philip's although I cannot find any list of the 60,000 buried there - have searched all the other churchyards in Birmingham.
thanks Bronwen on a cold misty day in Christchurch, NZ
1796 BLAND
Edwin John Bland husband of Sarah Brookes
b.1796 Warwickshire, Birmingham, Eng.
m.1818 Jan 28 Sarah Brookes, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
d.1849 Oct>Dec Birmingham, Eng.
Census
1841 Edwin 45 gun finisher, Sarah 45, Sarah 18, Catherine 16, James 11, Edwin 9, Harriott 6, Elizabeth 1, (Weaman Street, Birmingham 1018 Weaman St, multi story: office blocks, flats and car park building)
1796 BROOKES
Sarah Brookes wife of Edwin John Bland mother of Edwin
b.1796 Bilston, Staffordshire, Eng.
m.1818 Jan 28 Edwin John Bland, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
d.1863 Jan>Mar Birmingham, Eng.
Children 9
1818 Apr 4 William Bland, Cannon St meeting house, Baptist,
1819 Sept 3 Thomas Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1823 Sarah Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1825 March 23 Catherine Price Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1827 July 20 c1828 Jan 2 John Theodore Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1829 Mar 8 c1833 Jan 28 James Theodore Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. Census 1861 James Bland 32 gas filler, Mary A Bland 30, James 11, Sarah 6, Catherine 4, Alfred 1, servant Ian Gammen aged 11. 1881 census James 51, widower, baker, boarder living with his son William 24 a button tool maker and 9 others at Brearly St West, Birmingham
1832 Feb 13 Edwin John Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1835 Harriott Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1839 Nov 8 c1841 Jan 19 Elizabeth Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. (reg to hand)
Census
1851 Sarah 55 Tool broker, Edwin John Bland law stationer apprentice, Harriet 17 lackerer, Elizabeth 11, 28 Steelhouse Lane, Warwickshire link to photo of steelhouse lane
1861 Sarah almswoman, 28 Steelhouse Lane, Warwickshire
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Baptism (from familysearch)
Edwin Bland 25 April 1796 parents Thomas and Mary
Marriage (familysearch)
Thomas Bland/ Mary Parker 1 October 1788 Birmingham
Burials (from the National Burial Index)
Thomas Bland 11 March 1813 aged 46 St Martin, Birmingham
Mary Bland 18 June 1837 aged 74 St Martin, Birmingham
Emeltom
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Thomas & Mary married at St Martins as mentioned 1 Oct 1788 by licence, both were single of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell all four signed.
Children baptised St Martins:
William Henry Bland 16 Jun 1791, Edwin Bland 25 Apr 1796, Theodore Bland 26 May 1800
There were also 2 at St Philips, may be same family?
James Bland 10 May 1793 & John Bland 28 May 1798
I could not find any baptisms for Thomas in Birmingham and no births in the Midlands but there are a few elsewhere, plenty of options for Mary in Birmingham.
Colin
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Baptism
Thomas Bland 30 September 1767 Birmingham parents Thomas and Hannah
Other children to the couple James 1769 and Catherine 1771
Three possibles for Mary Parker in Birmingham 1760-1770
4 February 1764 John and Mary
5 October 1765 Michael and Mary
26 December 1766 William and Elizabeth
Emeltom
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Thomas & Hannah were married in Harborne and the OPR is on A...ty also Catherines baptism in Birmingham but not the boys. I will check the years to see if the records exist.
Colin
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Thomas Bland Marriage 1 Mar 1767 Harborne, St Peter Hannah Smith
Thomas Blank Baptism 30 Sep 1767 Birmingham, St Martin
James Gland Baptism 29 Sep 1769 Birmingham, St Martin
Catherine Bland Baptism 28 Jun 1771 Birmingham, St Martin
Well at least they got it right once.
Colin
PS: Thomas was a widower at his marriage, Hannah was single.
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Possible Baptism on Freereg.
Thomas Bland baptism 7 Jan 1743, Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham, parents Thomas & Mary
Colin
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Many thanks for the great responses. This is extremely helpful. I have been on 'family search' many times but somehow or other I had missed the information Emeltom thanks.
Two things I would like to know - how could I ascertain which of the three are Parker's parents. Is there anyway of finding out what these people did for a living.
Nga mihi Bronwen - another drizzly cold day!
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There was an additional OPR on A….ty both of these are at St Martins the other St Philips so maybe less likely?
Mary Parker Birmingham, St Martin John & Anne
Baptism 6 Mar 1764 - Burial 19 Nov 1764
Mary Parker Baptism 4 Feb 1764 Birmingham, St Martin John & Transcribed as Lydia but is Mary (Lydia was the next entry)
The problem with both of these they do not fit the normal naming pattern.
First son was named after the father's father.
Second son was named after the mother's father.
The only one in the Midlands I can find is:
Mary Parker 15 Aug 1763 St Peter, Wolverhampton - Parents James & Margaret
Mothers name does not fit naming pattern?
First daughter was named after the mother's mother.
Then again not all families followed the rules.
Sadly the OPRs do not give much if any extra detail until after 1813.
So not an easy task unless you can eliminate them one by one.
Colin
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These may be John & Mary’s children
Baptisms Birmingham, St Martin
Thomas Parker 1 Dec 1753
Anne Parker 26 Dec 1755
John Parker 30 Sep 1758
William Parker 5 Nov 1761
Mary Parker 4 Feb 1764
Samuel Parker 10 Nov 1766
Colin
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The problem with both of these they do not fit the normal naming pattern.
First son was named after the father's father.
Second son was named after the mother's father.
Mothers name does not fit naming pattern?
First daughter was named after the mother's mother.
Then again not all families followed the rules.
Surely this was a very loosely-followed practice in England? Of course in Scotland it was pretty much gospel, but I have not found these rules to be followed closely in England.
None of my Birmingham ancestors' families followed this naming pattern.
Bev
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Hi Colin & Emeltom & Bev
Many thanks for all your help with my quest.
It appears I have the Parker woman down to 4 possibilities (one of the others was born and died the same year).
15 Aug 1763 St Peter, Wolverhampton - James & Margaret Midlands
4 February 1764 John and Mary, St Martins
5 October 1765 Michael and Mary
26 December 1766 William and Elizabeth
Colin you said this ' both of these are at St Martins the other St Philips so maybe less likely" and I am not sure in your post what you were referring to because I think the third one was St Peter in Wolverhampton?
Is it possible to find out where the two last ones were baptised?
Many thanks to you all on this sunny winters day.
Bronwen
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Hi Bronwen,
Sorry my post was not clear.
Mary 4 February 1764 John and Mary - St Martins (no marriage Birmingham but two in Staffs)
Mary 5 October 1765 Michael and Mary - St Philips (No marriage in the Midlands)
Mary was their only daughter in Birmingham.
Mary 26 December 1766 William and Elizabeth - St Philips
(William of the parish of Exhall, Warks married Elizabeth Harrison (otp) in Kings Norton in 1760
Mary only daughter in Birmingham but may have had a son Thomas in Exhall, Warks. 1768.)
The only reason I mentioned James below is because the name Parker is quite strong in Staffordshire and he was the only James in the Midlands that I could find in the period.
Mary 15 Aug 1763 St Peter, Wolverhampton - James & Margaret Midlands
Colin
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Hi Bevj,
I note your comments on naming patterns, as my last line suggests not all families followed the rules.
However I was born in Birmingham and I have traced my direct line back to 1530 in Birmingham. My mothers family originated from Warwickshire to around 1640. Both families show linked names from one generation to the next.
I have also researched my wife’s Scottish ancestors with the same type of results, it is not as Gospel as you might think in Scotland.
I also think it is very much a case of family circumstances but naming patterns are a recognised part of genealogy.
Colin
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Thanks Colin - this is what I now have. If I got the certificates for these would that really clarify anything?
Regards Bronwen
Mary Parker's possible parents
1763 Aug 15 St Peter, Wolverhampton - James & Margaret (Midlands)
1764 February 4 John and Mary, St Martins (no marriage Birmingham but two in Staffs)
1765 October 5 Michael and Mary, St Philips, No marriage in the Midlands) Mary was their only daughter in Birmingham.
1766 December 26 William and Elizabeth William (St Philips) of the parish of Exhall, Warks, married Elizabeth Harrison (otp) in Kings Norton in 1760 Mary only daughter in Birmingham but may have had a son Thomas in Exhall, Warks. 1768
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The snag is I cannot find a suitable marriages for John & Mary or Michael & Mary. As john is before 1753 you will probably only get he married her.
I sent details of William & Elizabeth and that is the information you get after 1754, records are on An....ty. Although William does seem to be a family name.
I think James and Margaret is wishful thinking, you will find some Staffordshire Transcripts here.
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
I think the answer lies in Birmingham but the marriage records before 1753 are not always great.
I will send a separate post with some additional information.
Colin
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Hi Bronwen,
You may have some of this information already
When Thomas Bland died in 1813 his abode was Aston St.
When Mary died in 1837 she was noted as a Widow of Weaman St.
I now think all of the following were children of Thomas Bland & Mary Parker.
William Henry Bland (1791) married Elizabeth Cooksey by Banns 21 June 1824 Yardley, St Edburgha, both otp. Witnesses John & Elizabeth Bland
I guess John is the one baptised at St Philips 28 May 1798
William was a witness to Joseph Betteridge who married the same day.
William & Elizabeth had the following children baptised together on 23 Oct 1829 at St Philips. They were born as follows: Mary Ann 1821, John 1826, Charles 1828 & Matilda 1829.
William was a Button Burnisher of Little Charles St.
Robert was born & Baptised in 1832, family in same abode. William now a Victualler.
(William Henry Bland age 54 was buried 11 Feb 1846 St Philps.
Abode Small Heath parish of Aston)
Theodore Bland (1800) married Elizabeth Hancock 14 Jul 1822 Harborne, St Peter, both otp. (He stated he was single) their only child Elizabeth Gregory Bland was born 1823 baptised 29 Dec 1824 St. Philip, abode Edmund St. father a Brass Founder. (Theadore Bland was buried age 53 4 Sep 1855 Birmingham, St Bartholomew. Abode Cecil St.
On the same day in 1824 a William Henry Bland was also baptised, next entry to above he was born 30 Dec 1818 William Henry Bland & Elizabeth abode Bordesley St.
There is also an entry for William Henry Bland born 30 Dec 1818 baptised 12 Apr 1819 St Philip parents William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Ann, abode Aston St.
Edwin (1796 - 1850) as you know married Sarah Brookes at St Martin, witnesses Thomas Steele & Marie Appleby.
I cannot find a clear marriage for John Bland (1798) or children in Birmingham.
However a John Bland was buried age 72 Aston, St Peter and St Paul, 28 Mar 1872, abode Weaman St.
James Bland (1793) No marriage but buried age 44 St Martin 19 Jan 1838, abode Weaman St. (Probably lived with his mother who died the year before)
None of this may help but it does mean some will be on census returns but finding Mary Parkers parents may remain a mystery.
Regards Colin
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Thanks for all this Colin - a few things.
What does otp mean?
I have listed with the Birmingham geaneology group
In the interim I have opted for this - primarily because it says she was 21 when she married. I think I have translated what you have sent me correctly.
Regards Bronwen - about to look at the Bland information you have sent me. Many many thanks.
1766 December 26 William and Elizabeth William (St Philips) of the parish of Exhall, Warks, married Elizabeth Harrison (otp) in Kings Norton in 1760 Mary only daughter in Birmingham but may have had a son Thomas in Exhall, Warks. 1768.
1740 PARKER?
William Parker
b.
m.1760 Elizabeth Harrison, Kings Norton, Birmingham, Eng.
d.
1740 HARRISON ?
Elizabeth Harrison
b.
m.1760 William Parker, Kings Norton, Birmingham, Eng
d.
Children
1766 Dec 26 Mary Parker, St Philips of the parish of Exhall, Warks ?
1768 Aug 28 Thomas in Exhall, Warks. Wixford
Mary Parker wife of Thomas Bland mother of Edwin John Bland
b.1766 Dec 26 St Philips of the parish of Exhall, Warks ?
m.1788 Oct 1 Thomas Bland, Birmingham, Eng. They were both of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell – all four signed)
d.1837 June 18 St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. (74)
Children 5
1791 June 16 William Henry Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1793 May 10 James Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng.
1796 Apr 25 Edwin John Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1798 May 28 John Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng.
1800 May 26 Theodore Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
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Hi Colin again.
Sorry clearly a little thick despite the wonderful sunshine here.
otp = of the same parish?
I have now updated again but with a couple of queries see the end.
Have you ever been to this part of the world Colin - where do you live?
Many thanks Bronwen Otautahi/Christchurch Aotearoa/NZ
Mary Parker wife of Thomas Bland mother of Edwin John Bland
b.1766 Dec 26 St Philips of the parish of Exhall, Warks ?
m.1788 Oct 1 Thomas Bland, Birmingham, Eng. They were both of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell (all four signed)
d.1837 June 18 St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. (74) widow, Weaman street
Children 5
1791 June 16 William Henry Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. m.Elizabeth Cooksey by banns 1824 June 21 Yardley, St Edburgha, both otp. Witnesses John (brother) & Elizabeth Bland. William was a witness to Joseph Betteridge who married the same day. William Henry buried 1846 Feb 11 St Philps. Abode Small Heath parish of Aston. William & Elizabeth children baptised together on 23 Oct 1829 at St Philips. Mary Ann 1821, John 1826, Charles 1828, Matilda 1829. William was a Button Burnisher of Little Charles St. Robert was born & baptised in 1832, abode Small Heath parish of Aston. William now a Victualler.
1793 May 10 James Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng. death 1838 Jan 19 aged 44 St Martin, abode Weaman St. lived with his mother who died the year before?
1796 Apr 25 Edwin John Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1798 May 28-1872 Mar 28 John Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng. John Bland was buried age 72 Aston, St Peter and St Paul, 28 Mar 1872, abode Weaman St.
1800 May 26 Theodore Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. m.Elizabeth Hancock 1822 Jul 14 Harborne, St Peter, both otp. child Elizabeth Gregory Bland was born 1823 b1824 Dec 29 Dec St. Philip, abode Edmund St. father a Brass Founder Theadore Bland 1855 Sep 4 buried St Bartholomew, Abode Cecil St
Robert was born & baptised in 1832
Where does he fit in - he is one of William Henry and Elizabeth's children?
He was baptised the day of his marriage?
On the same day in 1824 a William Henry Bland was also baptised, next entry to above he was born 30 Dec 1818 William Henry Bland & Elizabeth abode Bordesley St.
The right occupation – marriage/relationship prior to his with Elizabeth altho he stated he was single?
William Henry Bland born 30 Dec 1818 baptised 12 Apr 1819 St Philip parents William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Ann, abode Aston St.
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Hi Bronwen,
When Mary Parker died in 1837 she was 74 (1763) that would make her about 25 when she married, sadly her age is not on the marriage record, it may be on the Banns notice if you can find it, either way we know these records are not always accurate.
Sadly it is not known where Mary was born, when she married Thomas at St Martins, Birmingham in 1788, they were both living in the parish.
As you know there were 3 possible baptisms for Mary Parker in Birmingham 1760-1770
4 February 1764 John and Mary – sadly no marriage but very possible
5 October 1765 Michael and Mary – no marriage record but unlikely
26 December 1766 William and Elizabeth – see below
Mary Parker baptised St Martin 26 December 1766 William and Elizabeth - St Philips
William of the parish of Exhall, Warks married Elizabeth Harrison (OF THIS PARISH) in Kings Norton in 1760
Mary only daughter in Birmingham + maybe Elizabeth baptised St Philip 1765
Children baptised Exhall, Warks to a William & Elizabeth.
Thomas in. 1768, Sarah 1771 & John 1773.
A William Parker is on the Jurors List at Exhall 1773 – 1782, later entries note him as a Yeoman. (a man holding and cultivating a small landed estate; a freeholder.)
So did Mary return to Birmingham to marry or is she one of the dozen who married in Warwickshire?
Or were her parents John & Mary?
Colin
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The Bland's
Robert was born & baptised in 1832
Where does he fit in - he is one of William Henry and Elizabeth's children?
He was the son William Henry Bland (1791) & Elizabeth Cooksey, he was born after his siblings were baptised together in 1829
I do not quite understand this but the records are clear
On 29 Dec 1824 a William Henry Bland was baptised, he was born 30 Dec 1818
William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Elizabeth abode Bordesley St.
Another entry for a William Henry Bland born 30 Dec 1818 baptised 12 Apr 1819 St Philip parents William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Ann, abode Aston St.
The only marriage for William Bland to Ann Fullwood was in 1798, so clearly cannot be the one who married Elizabeth on 24 June 1824, the one above is the only child for a William & Ann.
Colin
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Thanks for all of this Colin.
Is it likely to tell me anything more I don't know if I order one of the birth certs Mary Parker - starting with the mostly likely - taking a stab at it?
I have never understood how there can be two entries although I have seen this sort of thing before.
On 29 Dec 1824 a William Henry Bland was baptised, he was born 30 Dec 1818
William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Elizabeth abode Bordesley St.
Another entry for a William Henry Bland born 30 Dec 1818 baptised 12 Apr 1819 St Philip parents William Henry Bland, a Button Burnisher & Ann, abode Aston St.
Regards and many thanks again
Bronwen
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You will not be able to order a birth certificate for anyone born in the 1700s as Civil Registration did not start until 1837.
Emeltom
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Hi Bronwen
Birth records in Birmingham & Warwickshire, which are on An…ty, prior to 1813 only record the name of the child, the parents and the baptism date, as was the case with Mary Parker. Some parishes may add a little extra such as the father’s occupation.
Records in Birmingham & Warwickshire after 1813 record all of the above including fathers occupation and their abode it might also give a birth date.
I think you might have difficulty resolving the parents of Mary Parker, it looks certain that one of them married Thomas Bland, however there were six Mary Parker marriages between 1780 & 1790 in the Birmingham area and as I mentioned another six in Warwickshire.
As I mentioned there was another William Henry Bland who married Ann and the occupation was common at the time, its possible the two were related and it was an incredible coincidence, you never know.
William Henry Bland 30 Dec 1818 29 Dec 1824 William Henry,Elizabeth
William Henry Bland 30 Dec 1818 12 Apr 1819 William Henry,Ann
Regards
Colin
Born Birmingham, Lives in Scotland has never been to NZ.
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Thanks for that Colin I don't want to buy certificates when they won't give me any leads.
best wishes
Bronwen, Christchurch, NZ
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Hi
I don't know when this post was entered but you are referring to my great x4 grandfather when taking about William Henry Bland (snr) and his son William Henry Bland (jnr). W. H. Bland (jnr married Mary Harvey and their son James Came out to New Zealand. I would be interested to find out what information you have and would like to share the information that I have.
Bernie Bland
New Plymouth