RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Lady Di on Tuesday 17 July 18 02:54 BST (UK)
-
I'm a little confused with the following 1851 census
7 Windsor Terrace, Mile End Old Town Tower Hamlets
William Page Head Marr 37 Rug Weaver Born: Ratcliff Essex
Harriett Do Wife Marr 60 Home Born: Hampshire Weller?
Frederick Turtill Son In Law Marr 34 Public Writer Born: Brighton Sussex
Harriet Do Wife Unmar 24 Home Born: Middlesex Bromley
Mary Ann Do Dau Unmar 7mo Home Born: Middlesex Stepney
------
The relationships don't seem to be correct or something's strange (or it's just me!)
Questions I have are -
When did William Page marry Harriet (surname unknown) - rather an age gap?
Fred was S-I-Law to whom?
Harriet was a "wife" but Unmarried
Did Harriet marry Fred' - if so, when, and what was her surname?
What was Mary Ann's surname as I cant find her birth
Any help would be very much appreciated
Thanks
Di
EDIT - added extra info, as, for some strange reason, it posted half way thru' and left bits out ???
-
1861 census - RG9/296 folio 8 page 9
William Page is now 47, and wife Harriet is 71. A grandson living with them.
1851 census:
Possibility that Fredrick Turtill is actually "step son" rather than "son in law"
-
Thanks BB
The 1861 is almost as confusing as Wm Page now says he was born in Lambeth Surrey - although his wife Harriet appears to be the same lady as per 1851.
If Fred' is a Step Son then I'd be even more interested in finding Harriet's surname/Maiden name - or even a marriage between Wm Page & Harriet.
-
Could the two Harriets be Kidd in Stepney in 1841? Piece 713 book 11 folio 37 page 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVV-1WR
George Kidd x 2 in 1851, piece 1553 folio 810 page 3
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNJ-HMK
-
Father of George (and Harriet?) may have been Joseph, possible marriage to Harriet Pringnell (widow) in Stepney in 1826
-
The odd thing is that there is a marriage, 7 Dec 1845, St Matthew Bethnal Green
Thomas Howell, Minor, Bachelor, Twine Spinner, 15 Seabright St
+
Harriet Kidd, Minor, Spinster, 10 Seabright St, father Joseph Kidd, Mariner
witnessed by William Page, Harriet Kidd
-
What was Mary Ann's surname as I cant find her birth
Birth reg
Sep 1850 Stepney 2 508
Howell, Mary Ann
mother Kidd
-
Ohh that's interesting jonw65 - thanks very much for your efforts
After BumbleB mentioned a Grandson on the 1861 census I started to check the Kidd surname but failed to connect the dots
Must admit to being confused (still ;D )
If Harriet Kidd (minor) married Thomas Howell in 1845 she can't be the wife of Frederick Turtil as per the 1851 census. Why isn't Mary Ann's surname noted as Turtill rather than Kidd on the birth rego'?
I've also tried to find Fred' with Harriet and Mary Ann on any later census but they seem to have vanished … immigrated maybe??
Thanks for your help anyway
Cheers
Di
-
I can't see marriages for any of those three couples in 1851, sorry. And the maiden name of Harriet still seems to be unknown if she was a widow when she married Joseph Kidd.
As to the birth certificate of Mary Ann, I wonder if Mr Howell was named as the father on it?
John
-
Yes you're right - there appears to be no marriages for any one of the "couples" on this part of the census.
I wonder if the enumerator simply mixed up some of his records. On the original he'd written "Turtill" against the elder Harriet, then rubbed that out and written "Do" .
As to the birth certificate of Mary Ann, I wonder if Mr Howell was named as the father on it?
John
.
In this era a birth cert didn't have a place for the surname of the child.The only surname recorded was that of the father.
-
I'm a little confused with the following 1851 census
7 Windsor Terrace, Mile End Old Town Tower Hamlets
William Page Head Marr 37 Rug Weaver Born: Ratcliff Essex
Harriett Do Wife Marr 60 Home Born: Hampshire Weller?
Frederick Turtill Son In Law Marr 34 Public Writer Born: Brighton Sussex
Harriet Do Wife Unmar 24 Home Born: Middlesex Bromley
Mary Ann Do Dau Unmar 7mo Home Born: Middlesex Stepney
------
William Page Head
Harriett Page Wife
Frederick Turtill Son in Law
Harriet Turtill Wife of Frederick or daughter of William
MaryAnn Turtill Daughter of Frederick or grand daughter of William
How i would read it!
-
Yes, but if there is no father on the certificate the birth is indexed under the mother's surname - which in this case would be Howell (since she was married, or possibly widowed)
Maybe Harriet's husband was the father anyway, there's no way of me knowing!
John
-
Thanks for your insight roderickpaulin although I rather doubt that Harriett2 is the dau of William - he's 37, she's 24.
I would like to find confirmation of the relationships - pref. Marriage cert for Frederick & Harriet as this should show Harriett's surname and hopefully that might connect her to Wm & Harriet Page.