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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: louisemcc60 on Wednesday 18 July 18 05:44 BST (UK)
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Hello
Apologies in advance as I've probably posted this in the wrong forum! Wasn't sure where to start.
I am just starting out and am trying to locate an ancestor from the Oxted, Surrey UK region. His name is Esseni Meager. I have marriage and death certificate information for him but nothing that provides me with his birth details. Father is listed as James Meager. I applied to the GRO for a birth certificate and they advised that they have no record of it. Birth year is 1860 or 1861, marriage and death year are both 1881 (sad!).
Could he be:
Not registered for some reason eg illegitimate?
Born overseas? (can't find any historical information on the roots of the name "Esseni").
Big thank you in advance for any help and also your guidance on using this forum!
Much appreciated :)
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
Birth registration was not compulsory until 1875, so it is entirely possible that his birth was never registered.
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Have you looked for him on the census?
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Cannot find him on the 1871 or 1881 census.
The burial entry for him dated 26 December 1881 has the word "navigator" written below his name I believe it to be an occupation as wool comber is written below another name on the page.
At the top of the same page is James Meager buried 28 July 1881 age 72 it also has navigator under his name. Could this be his father?
I found Mary Jane Evans with her father in 1871 and 1881 and expected to find him close by but no luck.
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Cannot find him on the 1871 or 1881 census.
The burial entry for him dated 26 December 1881 has the word "navigator" written below his name I believe it to be an occupation as wool comber is written below another name on the page.
At the top of the same page is James Meager buried 28 July 1881 age 72 it also has navigator under his name. Could this be his father?
I found Mary Jane Evans with her father in 1871 and 1881 and expected to find him close by but no luck.
Yes a navigator was initially a labourer who dug the canals (navigation) but was later the term coined for labourers working on the railways.
These men were often Irish but included men of all nationalities.
Cheers
Guy
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The problem could be that his first name varies greatly according to each record :-\
Emily Ann Meager christened 14 May 1882 Oxted- parents- Ernni & Mary Jane
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGZ5-TVF7
By 1901 census widow Mary Jane has remarried- daughter Emily Meagre in household with 3 other stepchildren named Ponting-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXJ-49H
Might be a co-incidence but Croydon is only about 10 miles from Oxted-
Marriage: 28 Nov.1887 St. Michael & All Angels, Croydon- John Revell, 20, son of Alfred Revell, to Emma Meager, 20, daughter of James Meager
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV36-21Y
James Meager died 1881 age 72 was born c1809 so perhaps 'Esenni's' grandfather or an elderly uncle?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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1891 census shows Henry John Ponting & wife Mary J. with a 'daughter' Emily A. Ponting, age 9, born Oxford, Surrey and 2 younger children-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:47S6-9PZ
Marriage: Oct./Dec.1883 West Ashford dist. (vol.2a p.1306) Henry John Ponting to Mary Jane Meager
Marriage: July/Sept.1893 Southampton dist. (vol.2c p.68) Frederick Giles to Mary Jane Ponting
Marriage: July/Sept.1901 Southampton dist. (vol.2c p.79) Ernest James Deal to Emily Ann Meager
1911 census- Emily Ann Deal, husband & 2 children- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5Z-3VW
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Might be a co-incidence but Croydon is only about 10 miles from Oxted-
Marriage: 28 Nov.1887 St. Michael & All Angels, Croydon- John Revell, 20, son of Alfred Revell, to Emma Meager, 20, daughter of James Meager
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV36-21Y
Baptism: Emma Elizabeth Meager 1867- parents James & Jemima
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQX4-3YY
GRO shows mother's maiden name as Brown
Baptism: Rose Emily Meager 1873- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQW1-NRJ
GRO shows mother's maiden name as Brown
Baptism: Louisa Ann Meager 1864- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGZR-NC86
GRO shows mother's maiden name Brown
GRO shows death 1876 Croydon- James Meager, age 41
1881 Census- Jemima Meager (widow) with 2 daughters
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q277-59LZ
Added- James Meager & Jemima Brown married 1864 Croydon
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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For now I would forget about the Croydon family but the details posted just in case they do turn out to be connected.
If we could get 'Esseni' in English census before his death in 1881 it would give a birthplace (county if in England or country if outside England).
I suspect that 'Esseni' is nothing like his real Christian name and it will turn out to be something like James :o
Do you have the originals of marriage and death certificates? if so, can you post portion showing his name here so we can all have a look.
What about the names of both witnesses to the marriage?
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Welcome from me too.
Please can you give all the details from the 1881 marriage, in case there are any further clues there?
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Welcome from me too.
Please can you give all the details from the 1881 marriage, in case there are any further clues there?
Now found:
Oxted Parish Church
1 August 1881
Esenni Meager 20 bach labourer of Oxted. Father: James Meager, labourer.
Mary Jane Evans 17 spinster of Oxted. Father: Isaac Evans, labourer.
Witnesses: Isaac Evans, Harriet Jefreys (?)
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The spelling of his name looks consistent to me in the few records we have:
01.08.1881 Esenni Meager, aged 20 (on marriage)
26.12.1881 Esenni Meager, aged 21 (on burial)
14.05.1882 Esenni Meager (on baptism of Emily Ann, who was born 02.04.1882)
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Meager is often found as a variant of the name Maher/Mahar/Meagher/Marr which are spellings that all appear in my research on the same family (of Irish origin) within a few decades in the C19th.
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Emily Ann Meager christened 14 May 1882 Oxted- parents- Ernni & Mary Jane
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGZ5-TVF7
This is a transcription but wonder what the image actually says?
A search on Family Search for 'Esenni' anywhere in England shows only marriage, death & burial for Esenni Meager (and none in Ireland).
Meager is often found as a variant of the name Maher/Mahar/Meagher/Marr which are spellings that all appear in my research on the same family (of Irish origin) within a few decades in the C19th.
All Irish variations possible although without a census record we don't know where 'Esseni' was born. The Croydon family (not sure if same family) have been in England for quite a while according to census records.
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The image (for each of the three PR entries) shows Esenni.
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James Meager was buried at Oxted on 28 July 1881, so only a few days before Esenni and Mary Jane’s marriage on 1 August.
Emily Ann (born at the beginning of April 1882) was probably conceived in July 1881 if full-term.
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Trying to find a link here - there must be one!
A George Esenni Bardsley birth reg'd June.qtr.1880 Uckfield, Sussex - mmn Meager, baptised 12/9/1880 Oxted, son of George (a Navigator) and Elizabeth and buried 16/9/1880 Oxted.
George Bardsley married Elizabeth Meager June quarter 1879 Uckfield, Sussex
With 'Esenni', Meager, Oxted, and 'navigator' all involved here there must be a connection to Esenni Meager and presumably Elizabeth was his sister.
Haven't yet found George and Elizabeth Bardsley on 1881 census to establish where she was born.
Annette
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есенни (esenni in the cyrillic alphabet) translates as autumn
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Trying to find a link here - there must be one!
A George Esenni Bardsley birth reg'd June.qtr.1880 Uckfield, Sussex - mmn Meager, baptised 12/9/1880 Oxted, son of George (a Navigator) and Elizabeth and buried 16/9/1880 Oxted.
George Bardsley married Elizabeth Meager June quarter 1879 Uckfield, Sussex
With 'Esenni', Meager, Oxted, and 'navigator' all involved here there must be a connection to Esenni Meager and presumably Elizabeth was his sister.
Haven't yet found George and Elizabeth Bardsley on 1881 census to establish where she was born.
Annette
Also:
Harriet Jane Badsley [sic], mmn Meager, Jun qtr 1881 Godstone
William Timothy Bardsley mmn Meager, Mar qtr 1883 Godstone
Albert John Bardsley, mmn Meager, Mar qtr 1886 Chertsey
Henry Thomas Bardsley mmn Meager, Jun qtr 1888 Watford
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The Bardsleys are in Dunsford, Devon in 1901. He's from Stalybridge, she is from Kent. Boxton?
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There's an MI for an Esenni-foard Samson in Aylesford - died in 1847. Possible relative?
https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=288146
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The Bardsleys are in Dunsford, Devon in 1901. He's from Stalybridge, she is from Kent. Boxton?
Later, Elizabeth Bardsley claims birth in Canterbury, c 1859.
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There's an MI for an Esenni-foard Samson in Aylesford - died in 1847. Possible relative?
https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=288146
Death reg per GRO index as Enne Samson, 8, Dec qtr 1847 Malling.
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Birth reg per GRO index as Esennie Fo.rd [sic] Samson, mmn Kimsley, Jun qtr 1840 Malling.
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Birth reg per GRO index as Esennie Fo.rd [sic] Samson, mmn Kimsley, Jun qtr 1840 Malling.
Possible siblings:
Ambrose Samson, mmn Kemsley, Jun qtr 1842 Malling
Ellen Margaret Samson, mmn Kemsley, Dec qtr 1843 Malling
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There are several baptisms in Aylesford of children of Stephen and Margaret Samson, including:
05 Jul 1840: Essenhigh Foard Samson
01 May 1842: Ambrose Samson
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Possible baptism for Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Meagher bp.20/2/1859 Boughton under Blean, Kent, dau. of James (Labourer) and Elizabeth.
Needless to say, can't find this family 1861/1871.
Annette
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Welcome to Rootschat :D
There is a GRO birth reg for Essignee Omega In Apr-May-Jun qtr 1861 Dartford Kent district Vol 2a Pg 296, GRO gives mothers maidenname as Reed
An Elizabeth Reed married a James Mager 25th Dec 1858 in Strood Rochester Kent
Jan
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This family is intriguing, although haven't yet found a death for James M(e)ager and subsequent marriage of Elizabeth to William Smith
1871
1 Hope Cottages Tottenham
William Smith Head Head Mar 56 Railway worker Kent
Elizabeth Smith Wife 47 Surrey Norwood
Elizabeth Smith Daug 12 Kent Borton
Esseni Smith Son 10 Kent ?Ainsford
George Smith Son 6 Kent Sevenoaks
RG10/1340/41 pg21/22
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Lots of new leads posted. I also found this record-
Possible baptism for Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Meagher bp.20/2/1859 Boughton under Blean, Kent, dau. of James (Labourer) and Elizabeth.
Needless to say, can't find this family 1861/1871.
Annette
Boughton under Blean is just west of Canterbury.
Elizabeth Smith Daug 12 Kent Borton
Boxton listed as Elizabeth Bardsley's birthplace in one census and Canterbury in another.
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There is also a Birth for a George Meager in Sevenoaks in Apr-May-Jun 1865 mothers maidenname Reed. Esenni Smith's ?Ainsford birthplace could well be a stab at Eynsford, which is in Dartford Registration District where the gloriously named Essignee Omega was registered.
So it is all looking more hopeful but still no sign of James and Elizabeth Meager and daughter Elizabeth in 1861.
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Thank you SO much everyone for your fantastic responses! Lots of info to trawl through! I'll post the GRO certificates that I have obtained thus far. You'll notice that the person who notified the death of James Meager aged 72 in 1881 is an Elizbeth Badsley (sic) which points to an Elizabeth perhaps being the sister of Esseni.
Thank you again to all of you for your ideas, suggestions and sleuthing ;D - very much appreciated. I will forge on as I'd just love to solve the mystery of the exotically named Esseni ;)
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Great that Elizabeth Badsley is informant on James death cert - another encouraging pointer. Presumably, as James didn't die till 1881, then Elizabeth senior never married William Smith (assuming this is the right family in 1871).
Let us know how you get on :D
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There is also a Birth for a George Meager in Sevenoaks in Apr-May-Jun 1865 mothers maidenname Reed. Esenni Smith's ?Ainsford birthplace could well be a stab at Eynsford, which is in Dartford Registration District where the gloriously named Essignee Omega was registered.
There are no other births, deaths or marriages listed on free BMD with the surname Omega until the mid 1970's. I can imagine how Meager could have been misheard by the registrar as Omega possibly!? If the family didn't read, they would never know.
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I agree that it is very helpful that Elizabeth jnr is listed on James’ death certificate, not just as informant but specifically as “daughter”.
James Meager was 72 at death in July 1881 so born abt 1809 - therefore significantly older than Elizabeth snr if she was correctly 47 in 1871 (as Elizabeth Smith in Tottenham) therefore born abt 1824.
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Married at the same time/place as James Meager and Elizabeth Reed (25 Dec 1858) were Robert Burr and Frances Reed - perhaps Elizabeth and Frances were related?
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There is also a Birth for a George Meager in Sevenoaks in Apr-May-Jun 1865 mothers maidenname Reed. Esenni Smith's ?Ainsford birthplace could well be a stab at Eynsford, which is in Dartford Registration District where the gloriously named Essignee Omega was registered.
There are no other births, deaths or marriages listed on free BMD with the surname Omega until the mid 1970's. I can imagine how Meager could have been misheard by the registrar as Omega possibly!? If the family didn't read, they would never know.
O'Meagher, or O'Meager maybe?
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The James Meager who married Elizabeth Reed in Strood 1858 was an excavator, which ties in with the navigator bit. James's father is down as William, Elizabeth's as Isaac, as is the Frances who married Robert Burr. Free Reg have these - Strood
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The James Meager who married Elizabeth Reed in Strood 1858 was an excavator, which ties in with the navigator bit. James's father is down as William, Elizabeth's as Isaac, as is the Frances who married Robert Burr. Free Reg have these - Strood
Ah yes :)
Frances Burr, dau of Isaac Reed, then remarried in Chatham on 14 June 1865, aged 26, to James Mansfield.
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Baptised at Hever:
09 Sep 1838: Frances Reed, dau of Isaac and Elizabeth.
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Looking at Elizabeth Reed:
Possible baptism:
Name: Elizabeth Reed
Christening Date:12 JUN 1824
Christening Place: SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST,CROYDON,SURREY,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Isaac Reed
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Elizabeth Smith in the 1871 census is recorded as being born c1824 Surrey Norwood
South Norwood is approx 2 miles from Croydon
Elizabeth Reed is recorded as aged 34 in 1858 when she marries and made her mark on the marriage certificate (image page 75 top right, Frances and Robert page 74 bottom left):
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P150B-01-17(1).pdf
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My first reaction to the name Esseni / Essenni was that it sounded to be of Greek origin ???
Dawn M
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Essenes were a group of Jewish people.
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Essen in Germany.
Refugees from the Palatinate, now in Germany, went to England and Ireland. I think those in Ireland settled in the Limerick area.
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A 46 yr William Smith and 36 yr old Elizabeth Smith with 2yr old daughter Elizabeth (plus 2 older children who are likely from an earlier marriage for William) are living in Railway Huts, Eynsford in 1861 RG9/469/68 Pg 25
Their birthplaces are all dittoed from William's as Lewisham Kent.
Eynsford is exciting as that's where Esenni was probably born. It is on the Swanley Junction to Sevenoaks railway.
In 1881 even more exciting in Railway Huts near Bow Green Oxted Surrey is this family
William Smith Head Mar 70 Railway Labourer Kent Lewsome
Elizabeth Smith Wife 60 Railway Labourer's wife ditto
Elizabeth " Daughter Un Mar Kent Bourton
William " Son Unm 20 Railway Labourer Kent Hansford (I think this is Esseni as all else fits)
James Bardsley Son in law Mar 27 " " Cheshire
plus several lodgers
RG11/805/59 Pg37
I'm wondering if William Smith and James Meager are one and the same.
And on the previous page is a 16 yr old Jane Evans father Isaac!
In 1891 in Rickmansworth Herts indexed as Gurney which is household above)
Elizabeth Bardsley Wife 32 Kent Borton (no head listed, George presumably away)
plus children
plus
Elizabeth Meager Mother in law Wid 68 Surrey Norwood
RG12/1121/58 pg14
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Re: Smith alias Meager
1851 censusi Etchingham, Sussex
James Meagre, Rail lab 35, born Kent Lewisham,
Elizabeth Meagre, 37, born Surrey, Croydon
William, 5, born Surrey, Carshalton
Alice, 3, born Warwickshire, Harbury ?
Mary A, 5 months, born Sussex, Salehurst
Lodgers with James and Emma Nash
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Good find bevo.
The older children with William and Elizabeth Smith in 1861 are William 15, Alice 13 and Ann 11.
Alice Meager registered Southam Union, Warwickshire 1848 mother's maidenname Read
Mary Ann Meager Ticehurst, Sussex Dec qtr 1850 mother's maidenname Reed
Jan