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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: teach3r on Thursday 19 July 18 18:31 BST (UK)

Title: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: teach3r on Thursday 19 July 18 18:31 BST (UK)
Good evening and thank you in advance for any help that can be given.

My wife's gg-grandmother is Martha Margaret Emery and she is being quite elusive! 


I have been unable to find her birth cert / parish baptism or her details in the 1861, 91 or 1901 census.

The details below show the birth place on each census that I do have.

Martha and Michael had 10 children (9 born in Cardiff).
Minnie Maud, Ann MM, Ada Adelaide, Clara M (b. Pembroke), Martha Elizabeth, Arthur John M, Mary Ann, George Holloway, Charles Adolphus, Michael Sidney.

Any help with filling in my gaps is much appreciated, especially with her birth or baptism.

Thank you.

Nic
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: JJen on Thursday 19 July 18 19:04 BST (UK)
Hi Nic,

Have you considered this 1901? -

Martha Deane   55
Percy Deane   20
Archie Deane   16
Sidney Deane   14 (could be Michael Sidney)

RG13 Piece 5019 Folio 140 Page 18, Pontypridd

Birth of 'Archie' -

Archibald Dean
q3 1884, Cardiff
Vol 11a Page 313
Mother's maiden name - Emery

JJ

Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 19:19 BST (UK)
Quote from: JJen on Thursday 19 July 18 19:04 BST (UK)

Have you considered this 1901? -

Martha Deane   55
Percy Deane   20
Archie Deane   16
Sidney Deane   14 (could be Michael Sidney)

RG13 Piece 5019 Folio 140 Page 18, Pontypridd

Birth of 'Archie' -

Archibald Dean
q3 1884, Cardiff
Vol 11a Page 313
Mother's maiden name - Emery

JJ

1891 census Piece:   4404 Folio:   27  Page Number:   6

Alfred  12, Percy 10  and Archibald DEAN 10 all born St John’s Cardiff  are inmates
industrial Schools Ely near Cardiff

Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: JJen on Thursday 19 July 18 19:22 BST (UK)
Quote from: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 19:19 BST (UK)
Quote from: JJen on Thursday 19 July 18 19:04 BST (UK)

Have you considered this 1901? -

Martha Deane   55
Percy Deane   20
Archie Deane   16
Sidney Deane   14 (could be Michael Sidney)

RG13 Piece 5019 Folio 140 Page 18, Pontypridd

Birth of 'Archie' -

Archibald Dean
q3 1884, Cardiff
Vol 11a Page 313
Mother's maiden name - Emery

JJ

1891 census Piece:   4404 Folio:   27  Page Number:   6

Alfred  12, Percy 10  and Archibald DEAN 10 all born St John’s Cardiff  are inmates
industrial Schools Ely near Cardiff

Just about to post that one  :) Archibald's age is out but worth considering. Wonder if Martha was in a workhouse after the death of her husband.

JJ
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: cath151 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:25 BST (UK)
Possible 1861?
15 Quay Street, St Johns, Cardiff
RG09/4031  14/22
Head of household  surname Lourie

Martha Hemery  servant  14  House Servant  Glamorganshire, Lan.....ngel

Cathy
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:28 BST (UK)
The children’s names don’t seem to match those in the original post though 🤔
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: JJen on Thursday 19 July 18 19:29 BST (UK)
Quote from: cath151 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:25 BST (UK)
Possible 1861?
15 Quay Street, St Johns, Cardiff
RG09/4031  14/22
Head of household  surname Lourie

Martha Hemery  servant  14  House Servant  Glamorganshire, Lan.....ngel

Cathy

Good spot Cathy  :)
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:35 BST (UK)
Charles Adolphus Dean registered Newport DecQ 1878, baptised at Cardiff St Mary, 30 oct 1878, parents Michael Holloway and Martha Margaret Dean.

Abode 29 George?? St, Cathays, Michael a gentleman.
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:56 BST (UK)
Michael Holloway Dean died in Cardiff on 12 June 1886, aged 50.

Probate granted to Horace Herbert Dean, collier.
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: cath151 on Thursday 19 July 18 20:03 BST (UK)
Sorry just realised you had the 1851 already, I may have just confused the issue :)
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 20:20 BST (UK)
Quote from: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 19:28 BST (UK)
The children’s names don’t seem to match those in the original post though 🤔

No they don't perhaps a different family then :-\

Here's the 1871c RG10; Piece: 5360; Folio: 115; Page: 37/38

Michael H Dean   35 Bilston
Martha M Dean   25 Llanfihangel
Horace H Dean   11 Bilston (he's on the 1861 census with Michael & first wife Harriet)
Anne M M Dean   7 Cardiff
Ada A G E Dean   4 Newport
Clara M Dean   2 Pembroke
Martha E Dean   6 Months Cardiff
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 20:43 BST (UK)
Michaelston-y-Fedw is Llanfihangel-y-Fedw in Welsh. Close to Newport, so her birth places are mainly matching up 😀.
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 20:49 BST (UK)
Quote from: teach3r on Thursday 19 July 18 18:31 BST (UK)

The details below show the birth place on each census that I do have.
  • 1851 - Michael Stone, U D (HO107 / 1835 / 262 / Page 30).

    I do not know what UD means and  I am assuming that this is one of Michaelston-super-Ely (Glamorgan), Michaelston (Glamorgan) or Michaelston-y-Fedw (might have been Monmouthshire). Her family seem to have come from Wiltshire.
  • 1871 - Llanfihangel, Glamorgan (RG10 / 5360 / 115 / Page 37)
  • 1881 - Newport, Monmouthshire (RG11 / 5313 / 38 / Page 10)
     
    Visitor to Boot Inn shown as Mary H (not Martha M) but is with Husband Michael Holloway Dean and daughter Ada.


UD could be upper divison

from Genuki
"MICHAELSTONE-Y-FEDW, a parish partly in the upper division of the hundred of Wentllooge, county Monmouth
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 19 July 18 20:51 BST (UK)
Michael Holloway Dean doesn't seem to have been the best at business - he was bankrupted in 1859 (druggist and grocer, Ashbourne Derbyshire) and in liquidation in October 1877 (chemist and druggist 2038 Bute St, Cardiff)
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 20:54 BST (UK)
Martha is in Malmsbury in 1851 with her father John, mother Elizabeth and siblings Rhoda and George. Can only find Rhoda’s registration, Rhoda Jane, mmn Kendall, Malmsbury, March quarter 1840.
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 21:12 BST (UK)
Quote from: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 20:54 BST (UK)
Martha is in Malmsbury in 1851 with her father John, mother Elizabeth and siblings Rhoda and George.

 Can only find Rhoda’s registration, Rhoda Jane, mmn Kendall, Malmsbury, March quarter 1840.

EMERY, GEORGE    mmn   KENDAL     
1842  D Quarter in MALMSBURY UNION  Volume 08  Page 335

I wonder if this is the marriage entry

Sep 1838  Bristol    11   150

EMERY    John
one of the female names on same page
KENDALL    Elizabeth

Wiltshire BMD has the following birth entries

1840 EMERY   Rhoda Jane KENDALL   Malmesbury West
1842 EMERY   George   KENDAL    Malmesbury West
1849 EMERY   Adolphus   KENDALL    Malmesbury East
1851 EMERY   Adolphus   KENDALL    Malmesbury East

Edit burial of Adolphus born 1849
   
18 Aug 1850 Burial Place:   Malmesbury, Wiltshire - 7 weeks old
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 21:16 BST (UK)
Just found the same marriage! And the Adolphus is good as it comes through in one of her children. Struggling to find Martha’s birth though 🙄
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 21:28 BST (UK)
Michaelston-y-Fedw baptisms are on freereg but can’t find Martha 🙁
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 19 July 18 21:28 BST (UK)
Quote from: Deirdre784 on Thursday 19 July 18 21:16 BST (UK)
Struggling to find Martha’s birth though 🙄

Same here  ???

Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: osprey on Thursday 19 July 18 21:30 BST (UK)
UD is Urban District.

 ;)
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: teach3r on Saturday 21 July 18 16:44 BST (UK)
Thank you so much to everyone for your kind help.  Apologies for not replying sooner - I have been away for a couple of days.

I will get to work on piecing together all the wonderful pointers, facts and advice.

Nic
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: teach3r on Sunday 29 July 18 17:05 BST (UK)
I am now back from holiday.  Thank you everyone for your help, especially ....

JJen: Thank you for the 1901 information - Martha's son George Holloway Dean is only living a few doors away on the same street so this seems right.  Some concerns would be that I have her death in Cardiff as 15th September 1901 living at Harriet Street and buried at St Andrew's in Cardiff rather than in Tylorstown;  her birth is shown as Cardiff rather than Llanfingel; the surname gaining an extra "e" at the end is less of an issue.  I have added the detail to my tree as "possible" until I check the births for Percy, Archie and Sydney.

Ladyhawk: Thank you for the 1901 information.  Alfred is a new name for me.  Does also seem strange that Percy and Archibald are the same age.  One to explore further, especially finding the birth records.  Thank you for the 1871 census - fortunately I already had a copy of this.  Thank you for the clarification of UD - really useful and a lesson to me to check Genuki! Thank you for the information regarding the possible marriage between John and Elizabeth.  I have found the parish transcription giving the date as 30 July 1838 (I guess just creeping into Q3), however, in the transciptions the residence is Bristol (I was expecting Malmesbury).  With regards to Adolphus, on Martha's death cert is an A Emery (brother) so I think it is safe to assume that this is Adolphus.

Cath151: Thank you for the 1861 spot.  This seems a probable especially given the age and birth location.

Deidre784: Thank for the information on Charles.  I had the baptism (George Street) but not the Newport index reference.  Thank you also for Michael's details - I already had a copy of the Death cert, will and probate.  Interestingly, he dies in 1886 but probate wasn't given until 1905.  Your information on Michaelston vs Llanfihangel was really useful.  Thank you also for backing up the marriage although the Bristol residence gives me a small doubt.

Mabel Bagshawe:  I agree, Michael certainly had his ups and downs.  Quite surprising really, as his father was a very successful (and quite wealthy) pawnbroker in Bilston.

Unfortunately still not able to find Martha's birth!
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: Sikes on Friday 24 August 18 22:33 BST (UK)
Martha is my gg grandmother (teach3r - we've been in touch via PM previously).

I didn’t know Michaelston-y-Fedw is Llanfihangel-y-Fedw in Welsh, that is very useful.

Michael Holloway Dean's father owned an ironworks (mainly producing Japanned metal) as well as a pawnbrokers. One of Michael's brothers emigrated to New Zealand and also lived in Tahiti for a few years. Another brother stayed in Bilston as a Japanner.

I was told the law changed in the UK in the mid 1800s, you had to be qualified to dispense drugs. Is it likely Michael couldn't afford the required qualifications? This might explain why so many of the children were born in different places? He had a chemists at 8 Millicent Street in Cardiff.
Title: Re: Martha Emery (1846-1901)
Post by: teach3r on Sunday 26 August 18 11:17 BST (UK)
Hi Sikes,

Thank you for the reply and for the information you kindly gave me 8 years ago.  My progress so far is that I have Martha's parents John Emery (born abt. 1816 Malmesbury and in Cardiff from the 1861 census onwards) and Elizabeth Kendall (born abt 1819 Tetbury - died before 1891).  I have no baptism, marriage or death for either at present.

I have Michael Holloway Dean's parents John Dean (b. 1804 Bilston - d. 1856 Bilston) and Mary Anne Holloway (born abt. 1806 Staffordshire - died before 1851).  They married 24 May 1825.  John's will is very lengthy and informative.

I haven't managed to get any further back yet with any of these branches.  Also as this thread shows, I haven't been able to get Martha's birth cert.

Any more help would be very much appreciated.

Regards,

Nic