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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: findem on Saturday 21 July 18 05:02 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have the details of this marriage?
My ancestor John Willow(e)s and his wife Elizabeth baptised 4 children at Shalford, between 1684 and 1670, John bap 1670, Mary bap 1695 (aged abt 3yrs), Edward bap 1695 (aged 6 months) and Elizabeth bap 1700.
So far I have failed to find the marriage.
A couple of family trees on Ancestry suggest John married an Elizabeth Young at Shalford in 1683 but there is no supporting evidence attached and it is something I'm not able to check and confirm at the moment.
In 2006 during a visit to the UK and the ERO I also found two children of a John Willows and his wife Temperance both bap 13 Jul 1695 at Shalford, Thomas aged about 2 years and Josias, whether Elizabeth and Temperance are the same person I have no idea since I have failed to find a marriage of a John Willow(e)s/Willis to a Temperance or an Elizabeth.
I don't appear to have found their marriage at Shalford although I can't be 100% sure I have checked Shalford marriages in Shalford PRs.
I would be most grateful if anyone can shed some light on the matter.
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Hi.
I also can see your John and Elisabeth baptising children in shalford:
John 1684
Edward 1695
Mary bap 1695 but born 1692
Elisabeth 1700
The John and temperance willows baptisms were Thomas bap 1689 but born 1687 and Josias 1689.
I can’t see John 1670 at all.
Just going to look for marriages in neighbouring parishes. Interestingly, there is also an edward willows and wife marybaptising children 1679 to 1684. Mary is buried 1685.
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Hi Nannyj,
Sorry John 1670 was my mistake, it was 1684 of course and so the four children were baptised between 1684 and 1700, not 1684 and 1670 as I stated, must have been having a Der moment. ::)
In my notes I mention that I noticed an Edward son of Edward 7 Mary Willis baptised 20 Dec 1679 at Shalford and that I hadn't checked out that family.
I really don't know what to make of the John and Temperance couple, the thoughts ricocheting around my brain are:-
Was the name temperance an error or mistaken identity by the person writing up the baptism entries in the PRs?
Alternatively were there two guys named John Willis/Willowes active around the same time in Shalford, one with a wife named Elizabeth and the other with a wife Temperance?
Or was Elizabeth also named Temperance?
I've put that theorizing to one side for the time being because I was going around in circles, I'm hoping when or if I have the marriage of John and Elizabeth it might provide the clue. :)
If an Elizabeth Young is the wife of John Willowes then the Free Reg transcripts may have provided me with Elizabeth's baptism * * 1663 the daughter of William Young at Little Dunmow but I won't be carrying out any research on that until I have John & elizabeth's marriage.
Thanks for taking an interest, much appreciated.
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I’ve had a good hunt around local parishes for marriages of John Willowes around 1680ish and a bit either side. There are lots of gaps in the Parish registers and I would guess your John married during one of these gaps.
Also, I’m not sure where the ancestry tree got the Elizabeth young marriage in shalford from, as I can’t see it on the Parish register, but will double check just in case I missed it. Also checked for a marriage in little and great dunmow as if Elizabeth young is your Elizabeth, she’s likely to have been married there? No success.
Frustrating. Think this may always be a dead end unfortunately.
P.s. John Willows buried 14 Jun 1699 at shalford. As Elizabeth willows is baptised to John and Elizabeth willows in may 1700, I think this would suggest there are at least two John willows in shalford in the late 1600s? (Unless Elizabeth was baptised late ... but it doesn’t say deceased for John?)
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Thanks for that Nannyj,
Is it possible for me to have a list of which parishes you have searched, if it's not too much bother please?
I am hoping to get a sub for the ERO's database later this year, I have lost the plot somewhat at the moment, once I've managed to catch up to where I left of earlier this year then I'll be able to get going again. I came back from a June Bali holiday with a badly bruised leg and the start of a chest infection and what with loss of sleep my concentration was shot.
I was walking back to the apartment in Bali and was just passing a couple coming in the opposite direction, the husband rather worse for wear lurched against his wife, she cannoned into me and sent me flying into the road. I hit the rear side of a passing van bounced off to land flat on my face in the middle of the road, fortunately the traffic stopped promptly so I didn't end up under a car. The guy didn't stop to check how I was he kept walking as fast as he could, when my daughter and some others got me to the path the guy's wife said "are you alright" ??? >:( ;D
I guess I must have looked a sight for the next week in Bali, limping around with five large sticky plasters on my legs and even with painkillers it was difficult to sleep. On return to Australia an Xray found no fractures which at my age I think I was very lucky. As a consequence, as I remarked earlier, I have temporarily lost continuity with regards to genealogy.
Regards.
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That sounds awful! Looking at your profile, you’re about my dad’s age. Your daughter must have had a fright too. Hope you’re on the mend now.
Parishes searches: Shalford, wetherfield, gosfield, halstead, great saling, bardfield saling, great bardfield, Little bardfield, Finchingfield.
Happy to look anything up in the meantime.
Best wishes.
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Many thanks for that info nannyj, I've noted the unsuccessful searches on the my Family Group sheet, might save me duplicating searches.
If you can fit them in some time there are two more places to look for the marriage, Felsted and Great Waltham, it might be clutching at straws a bit but the Willis mob had some sort of connection to those two places. After that if unsuccessful again I'll probably put the problem to bed for a while, later this year when I have a sub I might have by then another search pattern, if not it will be random searches. ::) ;D
If it's not convenient to carry out those searches please feel free to opt out, you've already done a lot.
PS I've checked Free Reg but Gt Waltham is not covered for the appropriate time frame and Felsted not at all.
Regards.
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No problem. Will have a look and get back to you 😀
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Hi. No luck I’m afraid.
Add these to your list of checked parishes too: stebbing, great and little easton, Lindsell, barnston, north end, Ford end, great and little Leighs, rayne.
I think your marriage is in one of the gaps in the earlier mentioned Parish registers.
Shame. Leaves it at a dead end, which is very frustrating.
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Thanks again nannyj,
I think you're probably right with regard to the marriage being in one of the gaps.
I am very grateful for your work on my behalf, much appreciated.
I think it's time for me to send another message to the owners of the public trees to ask where or how they identified the bride as Elizabeth Young and the year 1863, I'm pretty sure if they answer there will be no clue. :(
Just had a thought (painful lol) I don't think I've looked on Genes Reunited, amongst all of the junk there could possibly be a clue, I'll let you know if I find anything worthwhile.
Regards.
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Yes. Let us know if you discover anything. Good luck.
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Will do.
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Will do.
Found nothing of use but I did send a message to a couple of people researching the same line as my Willis lot but no replies, I guess if I haven't heard by now I'm not going to hear. :(