RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: nenepops on Sunday 22 July 18 11:10 BST (UK)
-
Hello there,
I have a James and David Johnstone b1832 Gretna. I think David died 1912 Langholm.
I think their mother was Elizabeth Clarke and father John Johnstone?
Just trying to find more information on them please.
-
Parents John JOHNSTONE & Betty Clarke
DAVID MILLAR & JAMES MILLAR JOHNSTONE baptised Gretna on the same day 5/06/1832
1851 Cadgil, Half Morton, Dumfriesshire - The father and sons were cotton weavers.
John Johnston 41
Elizabeth Johnston 52
David Johnston 18
James Johnston 13?
Colin
-
Colin, there are also two entries for christenings of sons David and James on 5 June 1832 at Gretna, to parents John J and Betty Clarke.
nenepops, what more info do you have on them that would help? Have you checked the David Johnstone death in 1912 to confirm his details?
Monica
-
There is this transcript census entry from 1851. Everyone showing as born in Gretna:
John Johnston 41 weaver cotton
Elizabeth Johnston 52
David Johnston 18 weaver cotton
James Johnston 13 weaver cotton
Address: Cadgil, Half Morton Dumfriesshire
1841 on FreeCen has David and James as both aged 9 with the family living at Springfield Village in the Gretna area. 1851 ages look to be wrong for James.
Monica
-
Possible entry for David and new family in 1861. This David showing as married to an Elizabeth Jardine (from children's birth entries on Family Search):
David Johnston 28 cotton weaver b. Gretna
Elizabeth Johnston 30 b. Annan, Dumfriesshire
James Johnston 5
John Johnston 3
Mary E Johnston 9 Months
James Jardine 24 boarder b. Hoddom, Dumfriesshire
Address: Springfield, Graitney
in 1871, the family show as living in the High Street, Langholm. Baby Mary Elizabeth may have died, two younger daughters show as Janet 7 and Elizabeth 2.
Jumping a few censuses to 1901, David and wife Elizabeth are living by themselves at 26 Caroline Street in Langholm. David showing as a pattern weaver.
Monica
-
I have David Johnstone death 1912 Rosevale Street, Langholm.
I have his mother as Elizabeth Clarke b1799 Gretna
-
Possible 1861 entry for James:
Mary Scott 64
Gilbert Scott 32
Mary Scott 23
James Johnston 28 son in law cotton weaver b. Gretna
Address: Rigg, Graitney
Can't easily see anything further for this couple so far....
Monica
-
Parents John JOHNSTONE & Betty Clarke
DAVID MILLAR & JAMES MILLAR JOHNSTONE baptised Gretna on the same day 5/06/1832
1851 Cadgil, Half Morton, Dumfriesshire - The father and sons were cotton weavers.
John Johnston 41
Elizabeth Johnston 52
David Johnston 18
James Johnston 13?
Colin
I wonder where the middle name Millar came from then?
-
The 1851 transcrition for James age 13 is wrong. He and David are both noted as age 18 on SP.
Colin
-
Yes that makes sense Colin. Certainly a transcription issue for 1851.
Monica
-
JOHN JOHNSTONE married ELIZABETH CLARK, Gretna Nov 1828
1861 – Rigg Village, Gretna. John 51, Elizabeth 69 both noted as born Gretna. (An…ty transcript)
However 3 John’s on SP age 51 but the only one with an Elizabeth is 62, this ties in with the 1851.
Still there in 1871 age 61 & 73 both born Gretna.
JOHNSTON ELIZABETH 74 Died 1872 Gretna
Only baptism for Elizabeth around that time
CLARK ELIZABETH THOMAS CLARK/JEAN GASGIL 10/01/1797 Gretna
JOHNSTON JOHN 69 Died 1880 Gretna
Likely baptism for John:
JOHNSTONE JOHN DAVID JOHNSTONE & JANET COLTART 20/06/1809 Gretna
The name middle name for children in Scotland is often but not always the grandmothers maiden name. Not in this case it seems?
Colin
-
This is so helpful ColC, thank you. It's so interesting.
-
JOHN JOHNSTONE married ELIZABETH CLARK, Gretna Nov 1828
1861 – Rigg Village, Gretna. John 51, Elizabeth 69 both noted as born Gretna. (An…ty transcript)
However 3 John’s on SP age 51 but the only one with an Elizabeth is 62, this ties in with the 1851.
Still there in 1871 age 61 & 73 both born Gretna.
JOHNSTON ELIZABETH 74 Died 1872 Gretna
Only baptism for Elizabeth around that time
CLARK ELIZABETH THOMAS CLARK/JEAN GASGIL 10/01/1797 Gretna
JOHNSTON JOHN 69 Died 1880 Gretna
Likely baptism for John:
JOHNSTONE JOHN DAVID JOHNSTONE & JANET COLTART 20/06/1809 Gretna
The name middle name for children in Scotland is often but not always the grandmothers maiden name. Not in this case it seems?
Colin
A Gasgil now that's a new name I haven't come across. Thank you.
-
Thanks for your responses. Just to conclude from me unless you need more.
4 David marriages 1851 - 1861 only 1 to Elizabeth.
DAVID JOHNSTONE to ELISABETH DINWOODIE 14/01/1855 Dryfesdale
On the 1861 census they had 3 children born Gretna, no church baptisms but there are statutory registrations for John & Mary Elizabeth on Scotlands People which will name the mother.
1861 James is noted as son in law with Mary Scott and her two children Gilbert & Mary.
FRANCES SCOTT & MARY TWEDDIE parents of Gilbert & Mary Scott. (1861 census) – James married Mary
JAMES JOHNSTON to MARY SCOTT 1860 Gretna (Stat Reg)
Nothing in between but:
1891 55 Senhouse St, Maryport, Crosscanonby, Cumberland
James 58 & Mary 53 both born Gretna.
Occupation difficult to read except for the word Agent.
Regards
Colin
-
Thank you once again.
I've got an Elzabeth Graham that he was married to 1855 Middlebie? Matpyve this is incorrect?
-
Yes that also looks likely SP both marriages in 1855.
Colin
-
Yes that also looks likely SP both marriages in 1855.
Colin
So confusing ??? ???
Which one do you think is correct ColC?
-
Would Gasgil change to Gaskill?
-
David Johnstone’s marriages occurred during the first year that Statutory Registration began in Scotland. Marriage certs should name the father or other family member.
The only way to find the correct one is on SP below. For £7:50 you get 30 credits, downloading their certs will cost 6 credits each. This will leave some over for the other information, which has been posted.
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
When Thomas Clark married in 1796 Jean was Gasgill. When she was born in 1773 she was Gasshill, her siblings were Gaskill, Gaskel & Gaskell. As many were illiterate, around this time, the way their names were recorded mattered very little.
However at this time you do not know for sure if Thomas Clark was the father of Elizabeth. Although there is only one record 1798 +/- 2 years in Dumfriesshire, Elizabeth may have been born elsewhere or the record may not have survived.
Colin
-
Thanks for the advice ColC