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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: mclaughlan on Wednesday 25 July 18 17:30 BST (UK)
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I searched on Ancestry for details of my Grandmother May Cairns. Born 1900. Greenock, Scotland. I found a Canadian passenger list and found a May Cairns, born 1900. Scotland, departure date 23.05.1927. Arrival Port Quebec, Canada. Vessel Doric. I have not been able to find details of her return to the UK. Has anybody any ideas that may help my search. I do know she did travel back to the UK as she married Alexander McLaughlan from Port Glasgow. My mother was born 1936. Any help would be appreciated. :)
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I do know she did travel back to the UK as she married Alexander McLaughlan from Port Glasgow.
That marriage was in 1921 which does not tie in with a 1927 travel date. What info do you have which says she went to Canada prior to her marriage?
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Thank you for your reply CaroleW. If this was my Grandmother all details tie in together except she travelled on her maiden surname. My Grandmother she married in 1921 to Alexander McLaughlan and had 3 children still living in Port glasgow.
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So you are saying that she had been married for 6 years and had 3 young children but then travelled alone to Canada in 1927 under her maiden name??
What documentary evidence do you have to support that? Your original post gives the impression she went to Canada pre-marriage and returned to marry Alexander sometime between 1927-1936
I do know she did travel back to the UK as she married Alexander McLaughlan from Port Glasgow. My mother was born 1936
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Yes, if this is May Cairns my Grandmother she did marry 6 years prior to travelling. Details of travel were found on Ancestry Canadian passenger lists. I am just trying to find a return journey for her. :)
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This May Cairns was 27 and single born Glasgow nearest relative of where she came from was a cousin Isabella Hayes
11,Pitt Street Glasgow
Occupation domestic and her employer was J Walker Winterburn Edmonton Alta
Rosie
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Many thanks for your replies CaroleW and Rosie17.
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May Cairns. Born 1900. Greenock, Scotland.
Nothing on SP to support that
SP has an 1898 birth in Dennistoun but nothing else for a May Cairns
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Marriage certificate 19 August 1921 - shows May Cairns - spinster - 8 Chalmers Street Greenock - parents John Cairns - labour (deceased) and mother Margaret Cairns - maiden surname Symes.
Sandra
Added maiden surname of mother also noted on ancestry as Slymes in reply 22
Annette put forward Hynes in reply 34
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Not seeing a marriage for John Cairns & M S*me* on SP
Annie
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Me neither ???
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Could be tricky Carole ::)
Closest for Greenock (date wise) however still in Renfrew?
SYME MARY 1901
573/1 2005
Paisley
Annie
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Next closest for Greenock, would a Margaret go by May?
SYME MARGARET BANK
1899
564/2 149
Greenock West
Annie
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Scottish 1911 shows only one May Cairns - aged 11 and living in Midlothian
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SYME MARGARET BANK
1899
564/2 149
Greenock West
She died 1899
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Marriage certificate 19 August 1921 - shows May Cairns - spinster
Sandra,
What was May's age on marriage please?
Carole, got your message alert, thanks, that helps a lot! although I had my doubts, just throwing in the only possibles for the area for the era for comparison.
Annie
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Scottish 1911 shows only one May Cairns - aged 11 and living in Midlothian
Don't think it's our May (unless there as a relative), head & wife look to be Robert 44 & Elizabeth 43 with other kids?;
Kate 20
John 17
James 15
May 11
Bessie 7
Annie
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Apart from the 1921 marriage - there appears to be nothing else that ties up here.
Why did you go searching passenger lists - you must have had a reason?
You say that by 1927 they had 3 children but your mother wasn't born until 1936 - were there other children born between 1927-1935?
When and where did May die as there is no May McLaughlan death linking to a 1900 birthyear
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When and where did May die as there is no May McLaughlan death linking to a 1900 birthyear
Carole, good question as there's no M Cairns married to a McL death either?
Annie
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No death for a S*me* married to a McL either
Annie
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I done a search for name May without a surname for 1900 Greenock, do any of these names ring a bell?...
ROBERTSON MAY 1900
564/1 461
Greenock East
STURROCK MAY 1900
564/1 531
Greenock East
Depending on her age on marriage she may have been born 1899 & there's a few on SP named May (leaving surname blank) in Greenock with different surnames?
Annie
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This May Cairns was 27 and single born Glasgow
Rosie...not according to SP ::)
Something strange about 'May Cairns' overall as nothing is fitting so far apart from her name on her marriage & obviously her kids' births ???
I'm wondering if she was unofficially adopted as a Cairns i.e. born with a different surname at least although maybe a different forename too?
Annie
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Hi Annie & Carole
An online tree suggests that May died in Birkenhead on 13 June 1951, and had been living in Rock Ferry - there is also an address listed.
Not much info on Alexander bar he died 1962.
They also list Mays mother as SLYMES - I think that comes from the marriage cert, it looks a bit like Slymes to me.
Claire
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Thanks Claire!
Does seem to be the correct person.
Would have been good if OP had given some extra info. to save some time & effort.
Seems a few things may be wrong re dates/places?
How old was she on death?
Annie
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Hi Annie
May was registered as being 50 years old when she died.
Claire
Have to add another tree that I spotted has her husband dying in 1944 as opposed to the 1962 entry on another tree.
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parents John Cairns - labour (deceased) and mother Margaret Cairns - maiden surname Symes.
This may be a possible being as we can't find a marriage & the only Margaret Syme in Greenock (without a middle name)?
Death
SYME MARGARET 79 (b c1875)
1954
564/ 990
Greenock
However, without a birth for May it's only speculation.
Annie
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Have'nt checked - have we got the birth date - 17 March 1899 ???
Sandra
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Sandra,
Only 1 birth showing with a 'May' in all Scotland 1899 - 1901 nowhere near Greenock
CAIRNS CONSTANCE MAY 1900
746/ 7
Ladykirk (Berwick)
Annie
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May Cairns. Born 1900. Greenock, Scotland.
Nothing on SP to support that
SP has an 1898 birth in Dennistoun but nothing else for a May Cairns
Perhaps this Dennistoun one could be the key ???
Sandra
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Alexander and May moved to England (Birkenhead) where they both died. Mays' birth said to be 17th March 1899.
Annette
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I apologise in the delay getting back to answer you all. Well all I know Alexander and May married 19th August 1921. They had their first 3 children. Around 1927 moved to Birkenhead, Cheshire. Alexander worked in Camel Lairds ship yards. My mum was born 1936, then another two girls were born 1938 and 1940. Alexander died in 1944. May died my Grandmother died in 1951 Birkenhead, Cheshire. The elder siblings never spoke about the family from Scotland except that is where the family had lived. Alexander was born in Port Glasgow 1896. I have a copy of his birth details. I have no details of Mays birth so she could of been born anyway. According to UK 1939 electoral records of Birkenhead May was born 17.03.1899. I have a death record for her which does not really give me any more details. A friend of mine saw that a May Cairns had emigrated to Canada in 1927 details are on Ancestry. I have been unable to break my grandmothers wall down. I have also had a DNA test hoping to find some answers as yet no luck. I have put many messages on sites hoping a family member might be able to link May to their tree. Many Thanks to you all for your help.
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Around 1927 moved to Birkenhead, Cheshire
So there is absolutely nothing to support any theory that May went to Canada in 1927?
It would have been helpful if you had included that you already knew her full birth date from the 1939 register as your opening post says she was born in 1900 in Greenock. You now say you don't really know where she was born.
As a result - a great deal of time and effort has been wasted looking for a birth in Greenock
You already knew she had moved to Birkenhead and died there why was that not included in any of your posts?
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My mum was led to believe her mum was born in 1900 Greenock, also May's wedding certificate stated she was 21 in 1921. Living in Greenock. It was between the years 1927 and 1935 I thought May had travelled to Canada. If the lady May Cairns had been my May Cairns. There is a record on Ancestry which is too large to up load as attachment.
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. There is a record on Ancestry which is too large to up load as attachment.
Have posted details of the record for the May Cairns 1927
Going to Canada...which I don't think it is your May like the others not seeing a birth record ...
Rosie
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Marriage certificate 19 August 1921 - shows May Cairns - spinster - 8 Chalmers Street Greenock - parents John Cairns - labour (deceased) and mother Margaret Cairns - maiden surname Symes.
Sandra
May's mothers maiden name looks like Hynes to me, not Symes at all.
Annette
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Thank you Rosie all that was stated on Ancestry record was May Cairns born about 1900 in Scotland. Thank you Annette I also think May Cairns mum's surname was Hynes.
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This May Cairns was 27 and single born Glasgow nearest relative of where she came from was a cousin Isabella Hayes
11,Pitt Street Glasgow
Occupation domestic and her employer was J Walker Winterburn Edmonton Alta
Rosie
Canadian Passenger List
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A change of surname could make a difference (hopefully)?
Can someone please upload the mother's m/s from the marriage please so we can see it for ourselves?
Back to the drawing board meanwhile & Hynes has variants too although I think we can rule out 'Heinz'? ;D
Annie
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Wrong place & yr but...
HINDES MAY 1900
644/11 1555
Hutchesontown
What do we think ???
Annie
Add, used a wide window 1898 - 1901 & all Scotland
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Wrong place & yr but...
HINDES MAY 1900
644/11 1555
Hutchesontown
What do we think ???
Annie
Add, used a wide window 1898 - 1901 & all Scotland
Don't think so Annie does not tie in with her date of birth on the 1939 register ???
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Don't think so Annie does not tie in with her date of birth on the 1939 register ???
Rosie,
Think it's worth a check of the 1901 census to see if she's with mother 'Margaret' as I can't find a marriage for John Cairns & M Hynes (with any variants)?
Depending on circumstances, people sometimes don't know their actual YoB & nothing else showing on SP as a likely fit?
Annie
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Like you can not see anything on May or her mother have looked through census records not seeing anything so far ....We don't know for sure if she was born in Scotland ?
Rosie
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not sure if this will be any good -------------------
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One of the witnesses to the marriage was a Margaret Taylor (could that have been her mother ???)
Or did both her Mother/Father pass away in or before 1920 as indicated by the ancestry tree. ???
Sandra
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Not sure if that says deceased under mother's name ???
Rosie
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It could possibly Rosie - it was cut off at that point. :-\
Sandra
Yes does look deceased.
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Anything on the address 8 Chalmers Street Greenock ???
Sandra
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8 Chalmers Street Greenock
Looks like tenements, lots of tenants (1920) all no. 8 no names we're looking for i.e. names of witnesses to the marriage may help?
This is from the VRs which aren't every yr, every 5/10 yrs depending on yrs being researched.
Annie
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witnesses to marriage..........
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One of the witnesses to the marriage was a Margaret Taylor (could that have been her mother ???)
Or did both her Mother/Father pass away in or before 1920 as indicated by the ancestry tree. ???
Sorry, missed a few posts ::)
No Taylor or McLaughlan for 8 Chalmers Street.
Was the (deceased) for father written in full, if so, I think it does state mother deceased (in full) rather than sometimes written as 'dec'd'?
Will check for Taylor & McLaughlan in Greenock 1920.
Annie
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Yes, both mother and father "deceased" in full -
Sandra
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So Margaret Taylor can't be the mother as mother's dec'd.
Will search deaths 1st.
Annie
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So Margaret Taylor can't be the mother as mother's dec'd.
Will search deaths 1st.
Annie
No - sorted earlier.
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Margaret Taylor was Alexander McLaughlan's sister. May's parents according to the marriage certificate were both deceased in 1921. I have never found a marriage for May's parents or deaths. I have also considered May could of been Mary with no luck searching for May. My mum was aged 15 when both parents had died and never knew if her mum had any siblings.
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1898 - 1921 Deaths, closest fit Renfrew (with nothing fitting in Greenock) is too young (I think)?
HINDS MARGARET 31
1915
572/2 253
Barrhead and Levern
The rest are too old although May could have been brought up by g/parents & g/mother named Margaret H*n* i.e.?
HYNDS MARGARET
61
1904
564/1 303
Greenock East
Annie
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Can I ask, was May consistent using this on all births or anything else or did she ever use Mary as May is a known shortened version for Mary too?
Annie
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I have only ever known the name for my grandmother as May.
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Not wishing to throw anyone off in the wrong direction but just in case there's something to be found for this marriage so I don't lose the info.
HYND MARGARET & CAIRNS THOMAS 1895
459/2 24
Buckhaven
Grasping at straws but people did move around & I haven't checked any census' yet!
Annie
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SP has an 1898 birth in Dennistoun but nothing else for a May Cairns
Perhaps this Dennistoun one could be the key ???
Sandra
Unfortunately not, parents Archibald Cairns & Mary Ann Donovan
Annie
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There are quite a lot of Margaret Hynes marriages in Ireland, even more for John Cairns - this is from marriage registrations on familysearch but unfortunately you can't get to see possible spouses.
My gut instinct telling me parents - at least - were Irish rather than Scottish.
Annette
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Annette,
I was beginning to wonder myself as the surname Hynes in various forms is not a Scottish name.
I've just realised, I hadn't asked what the father John's occ. was on the marriage?
May help to trace him (if he really existed)?
Annie
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John Cairns occupation was a labourer. I really appreciate all the time you have taken in trying to help me. Many Thanks.
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Ireland was mentioned as a possibility back in 2008. Birth Indexes for Ireland were checked for 1898 - 1901. Nothing resembled a May Cairns was found in any quarter of any of those years.
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=283&p=surnames.cairns
Even a previous posting on Rootschat in 2011 brought no further info.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=556410.0
There was another enquiry which drew no response (February 2014) asking for ................
Has anybody a Maggie Cairns born 1900 she has a brother William born 1898. Her parents names were John and Maggie Cairns born around 1870. The family lived at 12 Burn Street, Dunbartonshire in 1901. Please contact me if any of this information matches with your Ancestors.
What connection does this have to May Cairns - do you suspect she was "Maggie" ???
Presume this is who you meant :- 12 Burn Street Dumbarton in 1901 census ?
John Cairns 31 Maggie Cairns 31
William Cairns 3 Maggie Cairns 1
This post should have been linked to the earlier enquiry to save everyone going round and round in 7 pages of circles.
Sandra
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It's all getting a bit confusing been searching lots of records trying to tie up with this May ...
I wonder if you contacted Scotlands People they might be able to help with working out Mother's maiden name ?
Rosie
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Perhaps I'm posting something which has already been mentioned and the OP has checked out but I'll ask anyway.
Has the Mary Ann Cairns aged 1 on 1901 Census at Greenock West and aged 11 on 1911 same place, been ruled out?
Looby
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I contacted scotland's people in 2008 regarding the marriage certificate of May Cairns to try and decipher her mother's maiden surname. They had no luck. Thank you all for your help. I hope one day I will get answers.
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I contacted scotland's people in 2008 regarding the marriage certificate of May Cairns to try and decipher her mother's maiden surname. They had no luck. Thank you all for your help. I hope one day I will get answers.
Do any of her children have middle names that could maybe relate to any family members ?
Rosie
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May Cairns had 6 children. Only one child had a middle name which was Rose.
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Deleted, not connected from what I found later which I've posted :-[
Annie
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12 Burn Street Dumbarton in 1901 census
John Cairns 31 Maggie Cairns 31
William Cairns 3 Maggie Cairns 1
What was that Johns' occ?
Annie
Add, I think this could be their marriage?
CAIRNS JOHN & O'DONNELL BRIDGET MARGARE 1895
498/ 79
Kirkintilloch (Dunbarton)
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This looks like that family in 1911 although no William or young Maggie (on 1901) :-\
CAIRNS JOHN 38
493/ 19/ 5 Bonhill, Dunbarton
with…
Bridget 39 (Bridget Margaret on marriage) using Maggie 1901?
John 13
Susan 11
Annie 8
Lizzie 6
Ellan 4
Robert 1
Annie