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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Cockneyrebel on Friday 27 July 18 12:44 BST (UK)
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I see on FindMyPast they've lists of POW's, one of my relations was captured at Singapore by the Japs, in the description it says: Prison camp or ship PH, Ship name A what does this mean?
Cr
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Prison camp or ship PH, Ship name
Presumerably he was in a Prison camp or a Hell ship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_ship
Not sure if FindMyPast want you to fill in which one or those are the results you got
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If you haven't done it, look at the image for more details.
MaxD
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Yes I've looked at the image but that is all it gives-no explanation for PH or A-maybe they don't know either!
Cr
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Could you post his details? Checking the entry against others often produces clues,
MaxD
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He was Alexander Charles Tobitt b 28 May 1919 Salisbury, Wiltshire, son of Roland Muller Tobitt and Lilian Violet nee Edwards, the latter is mentioned on the POW certificate of 1942 lived at Great Yarmouth.
Cr
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Could PH be the common abbreviation for the Phillipines?
Alexander C Tobitt 5774359
British Army
Primary Philippine Camp: Bilibid
Survived the Sinking of the Hofuku Maru 1944/09/21
http://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/Hell_Ships/Hofuku_Maru/
List of other British Men at Bilibid:
http://www.west-point.org/family/japanese-pow/HudsonFast/BilibidCamp.htm
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If you look at "Symon, John F Cpl (British Army) 5776853 Japan 12/13/1944 N/A"
his service number is simmilar to Alexander Tobitt's.
Jack (John F Symon) was enlisted from Yarmouth he was 4th Battalion Royal Norfolks was Alexander C Tobitt also in this Battalion when it was captured at Singapore?
Photograph is he in here: http://www.far-eastern-heroes.org.uk/Hell_in_Five/html/4th_battalion_royal_norfolks.htm
Jack Symon and Alexander Tobitt were also on the Hofuko Maru together, Jack thinks only about 40 Pow surivived the sinking of 1,500 men :( http://www.far-eastern-heroes.org.uk/Hell_in_Five/html/journey_to_japan.htm
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If you look at all the results in that data base for A Tobitt you will find more than one for your man, identified by his number or where he came from. The data looks as if it comes from a series of inputs with the amount of information being added to each time. For example, the first hit has prison ship Rakoyo Maru and A is National Archives. My suggestion it that you look through all of them, ignore the few that aren't him, and you will have all the info there is. The person who did the transcriptions knew why the actual ship appears in one record and PH in another, there is no real way of knowing and frankly I think you can ignore the differences and just look at all the entries and the images.
Your man was in the same battalion as Whiteout's man, whether the ship's name means another voyage or is an error, don't know. Whiteout may wish to add to this?
MaxD
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Fair to say there was quite a bit of confusion of where POW's were kept especially if they were in the Phillipines or on Hell Ships. I wonder if Alexander C Tobitt would appear as a prisoner at Changi for a short time before being moved to the Phillipines? He may have also been other places too?
On this page it looks like survivors of the sinking were picked up by other unknown Japanese vessels and taken on to Haito POW camp in Japan
http://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/Hell_Ships/Hofuku_Maru/html/evans-nigel-keith.htm
Others survivors were picked up by an American Submarine and taken to Saipan
http://www.far-eastern-heroes.org.uk/Hell_in_Five/html/sunk_off_manila_1st_time.htm
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As MaxD suggests if you have Findmypast access to original documents I would scroll through the orignal scans with a fine tooth comb and you might be able to trace his exact movements but I would suggest that all the ships in the Japanese convoy were all lumped togeather in one file.
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What a terrible way to treat prisoners, I was deeply shocked and saddened to read the accounts by the survivors.
Cr
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Yes absolutely horrific how they were treated. Many of the men themselves never talked about their experiences.
Important though I think that we remember their sacrifices and preserve any records of men that didn't return
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In light of people recently denying the Holocaust, perhaps subjects about that and the treatment of POW's in the last War should be taught in schools but I guess it wouldn't be pc?
Cr