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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: JAKnighton on Monday 30 July 18 15:15 BST (UK)
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My great-great grandmother died in 1956 at the age of 80, and her granddaughter, my grandmother is alive and remembers her well. Unfortunately her past was never discussed, my grandmother simply remembers her as a strict old woman.
Her name was Margaret McIlroy and she was born in Glasgow in 1875 but her parents, Felix McIlroy and Elizabeth McMahon, were Irish immigrants who arrived in 1870. They suffered with poor health and were sent back to Ireland at least once after applying for parish relief. Elizabeth died in 1876 and Felix died in 1879.
Margaret was an orphan by the age of four. She had three living older siblings; Ellen born 1865, Patrick born 1870 and Matilda born 1873.
I can't find Margaret in the 1881 or 1891 census. The next record I find for her is the birth of my great-grandmother, Matilda McIlroy in 1894. She was illegitimate and her father's identity is still a mystery.
Margaret then marries a Nathaniel Gunn in Glasgow in 1896. I can find her living with her husband in the 1901 and 1911 census. I also have her death record from 1956.
What I want to know is what happened to her as a child. Did she go to an orphanage? Did she get to stay with her siblings? Where would I go to find out such a thing?
Some more helpful details;
Her siblings all lived to adulthood and I have found marriages for all three, and death records for Ellen and Patrick.
I believe that I have found Ellen working as a domestic servant in Glasgow in 1881.
One detail my grandmother does know about my great-great grandmother is that she had ties to the Labour party. For some reason I find this quite significant.
Any help on this will be much appreciated.
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The Labour Party was founded in 1900.
What source of census records have you checked?
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Possible on 1881 census
MCILROY
MARGARET
1881
Female
aged 5
644/4 19/ 2
Calton
Lanark
Edit: That is not her
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Have you found her siblings on the 1881 census. Matilda is an unusual name so easier to find the right one
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Have you found her siblings on the 1881 census. Matilda is an unusual name so easier to find the right one
The only sibling I have possibly found is Ellen, who was old enough to make a living as a domestic servant.
The Labour Party was founded in 1900.
What source of census records have you checked?
I have used both Ancestry and ScotlandsPeople to check the census.
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There was an 1874 born Margaret McIlroy living with Irish born grandparents Archibald and Eliza McIlroy in Renfrew at 1881 (and then again as Maggie, a Muslin Weaver, in 1891, albeit her grandfather is dead by then). Have you checked/ruled out this one?
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There was an 1874 born Margaret McIlroy living with Irish born grandparents Archibald and Eliza McIlroy in Renfrew at 1881 (and then again as Maggie, a Muslin Weaver, in 1891, albeit her grandfather is dead by then). Have you checked/ruled out this one?
Yes that one has been ruled out. Margaret's grandparents were called Andrew McIlroy and Martha/Matilda Donaghy. Granted, I only know their names and haven't checked to see if they were alive at this time. Finding that out might lead to some answers.
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You haven't said whether you have tried the Glasgow Poor Law records to find out what happened to her and her siblings after their parents died?
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Possible marriage for Matilda in Blythswood 1895 to George Jeffers
1891 census appears to have her at 50 Kent Road as a general servant
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You haven't said whether you have tried the Glasgow Poor Law records to find out what happened to her and her siblings after their parents died?
I have a summary of her father's two poor law applications that does provide some insight.
In May 1879, Felix's second application was rejected and he and his children were admitted to a poorhouse. Then, they were shipped off back to Ireland in June 1879. However, they must have come straight back as Felix died in Glasgow in December 1879.
Possible marriage for Matilda in Blythswood 1895 to George Jeffers
1891 census appears to have her at 50 Kent Road as a general servant
I did have the marriage to George Jeffers already but the census is new to me, thank you.
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In May 1879, Felix's second application was rejected and he and his children were admitted to a poorhouse. Then, they were shipped off back to Ireland in June 1879. However, they must have come straight back as Felix died in Glasgow in December 1879.
Can you be sure that thje children accompanied him back to Glasgow? Could he have left them in Ireland when he came back?
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In May 1879, Felix's second application was rejected and he and his children were admitted to a poorhouse. Then, they were shipped off back to Ireland in June 1879. However, they must have come straight back as Felix died in Glasgow in December 1879.
Can you be sure that thje children accompanied him back to Glasgow? Could he have left them in Ireland when he came back?
He could, and perhaps that is likely, although all three children did end up in Glasgow again at some point.
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Have you looked for Irish Poor Records?
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Have you looked for Irish Poor Records?
Where would I go to find them please?
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Where in Ireland were they sent to?
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Where in Ireland were they sent to?
I don't know. Felix and his wife were married in Moneymore, County Londonderry and their first few children were born in that area. But Felix himself was born in Ardboe, County Tyrone. I don't know if that has any bearing on where he would be sent.
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I don't know. Felix and his wife were married in Moneymore, County Londonderry and their first few children were born in that area. But Felix himself was born in Ardboe, County Tyrone. I don't know if that has any bearing on where he would be sent.
The rules were that you were charged to the parish where you had 'settlement'.
You acquire 'settlement' by being born there, or by marrying a man who had 'settlement' there, or by living long enough in that parish. Initially you had to be there for 5 years, and latterly it was reduced to 3 but I forget exactly when.
If Felix lived long enough in Ardboe to acquire 'settlement' there in the eyes of the Glasgow parochial board, and his children were born in Ardboe, I would expect the Glasgow parochial board to have contacted the authorities there, told them that one of their parishioners had applied for relief and asked them to pay for whatever it cost them to deal with Felix's family. The authorities in Ardboe, instead of sending money to Glasgow, might have instructed the Glasgow parochial board to send the family to Ardboe, probably to the poorhouse or workhouse serving (but not necessarily in) Ardboe, because that might be cheaper.
Or they might have sent Felix to Moneymore and the children to Ardboe. It wasn't uncommon to separate families so there is no guarantee that they were all sent to the same place.
I am a little surprised if the Glasgow parochial board records apparently don't say where Felix and children had 'settlement'. This was a fundamental element of the system, because it enabled a parish to avoid bearing the cost of people from other parishes, or at least to claim reimbursement. So it was always one of the first details to be collected by the parochial board when someone applied for relief.
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I am relying on a summary of the record written by someone who visited the Mitchell Library on my behalf, so that could be why there isn't more detail on exactly where in Ireland he was sent. However, I have arranged a trip to the library for Friday so perhaps I can view the original then.
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Hope it's enlightening.
BTW if they were sent to the poorhouse, and then to Ireland, it wasn't a case of the application being refused. The parochial board may have declined to offer them relief in the form of cash, but they must have offered relief in the form of the poorhouse. If the application had been refused altogether, they would not have been admitted to the poorhouse.