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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 08:11 BST (UK)

Title: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 08:11 BST (UK)
Looking for Euphemia MacColl born 1824 Melfort, Argyll she married Duncan MacArthur don't have a date of birth or place where he was born. I can't find a marriage for them. The children are:
Anne born 1856 Muckairn
Duncan born 1858 Muckairn
Margaret born 1864 Muckairn
Archibald born 1861 Muckairn
Can anyone help
Wendy
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 02 August 18 08:12 BST (UK)
You might want to correct the title of this topic  Re: Euphemism MacColl  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 08:19 BST (UK)
Thank you
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 09:37 BST (UK)
Hi Wendy,

Have you looked at the birth registration on Scotland's People for either Archibald (born 1861) or Margaret (born 1864) ? These records should contain the date and place of the couple's marriage (info supplied by the informant who registered the birth). This information started to appear on statutory birth registrations after 1860 , so will not been on the certificates of the two older children.
 
Equally, if this info is missing and Euphemia is recorded only as MacColl and not MacArthur m.s. MacColl it would indicate that the couple were unmarried.

Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 10:20 BST (UK)
Hi again Wendy,

Could this be the family on the 1871 Census?
Muckairn - Lailt Fisherman's House.

Duncan McArthur    aged 59     Fisherman              born Argyll , Kilmore
Euphemia McArthur aged 46     Fisherman's wife     born Argyll, Kilmelford
Mary McArthur        aged 16     Fisherman's dau      born Argyll, Muckairn
Duncan McArthur   aged 12     Fisherman's son/scholar          ditto
Archibald McArthur  aged 9      Fisherman's son/scholar          ditto
Margaret McArthur  aged 6      Fisherman's dau/scholar           ditto

The spelling of McArthur (Mc not Mac) is as per transcribed on Freecen.

Looby :)

Added also 1861 Census -

MCARTHUR Duncan    48  Salmon Fisher  Argyllshire - Kilmore
MCARTHUR Euphemia  37                      Argyllshire - Melford
MCARTHUR  Catherine  Dau  14   Scholar   Argyllshire - Melford
MCARTHUR  Flora    Dau      12    Scholar   Argyllshire - Melford
 MCARTHUR Donald  Son     10     Scholar   Argyllshire - Melford
MCARTHUR  Mary  Dau        6                    Argyllshire - Melford
MCARTHUR  John   Son       8   Scholar       Argyllshire - Melford
MCARTHUR  Ann   Dau        4                    Argyllshire - Muckairn
MCARTHUR  Duncan   Son    2                   Argyllshire - Muckairn

So there seems to be several more children than the ones you listed.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 02 August 18 15:08 BST (UK)
1851 Census
Duncan Mcarthur, 35 Fisherman born Kilmore
Effie Mcarthur, 27 born Kilmilford
Bell Mcarthur, 6
Carthrie Mcarthur, 4
Flora Mcarthur, 3
Donald Mcarthur, 1
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 17:57 BST (UK)
Trish 1120 and loobylooar thanks yes this is who I'm looking for but didn't realise they had so many children. I will buy some credits to check out the births thank you loobylooar.I
Wendy
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 18:37 BST (UK)
I can't find births for either Euphemia or Duncan at all on Scotland's people. I've found a Duncan McArthur on family search baptised 1817 parents Duncan McArthur and Margaret Livingston at Lorn Argyll.
I also can't find a marriage.
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 19:01 BST (UK)
Hi Wendy,


Statutory registration in Scotland did not begin till 1855. Before that you are relying on Old Parish Registers (OPR's).
It could be that Euphemia and Duncan's births/baptisms were never recorded as it was not obligatory so. Or it could be that the records for the parish they were born in have been lost/destroyed. Sadly not all OPR's have survived.

The same applies to their marriage record  - that's why I suggested you look at the birth registrations of the youngest to children born after 1860 (when marriage details were added ).
Duncan McArthur would be a fairly common name - so perhaps the 1817 birth is not your Duncan's.
His age is given as 35 in 1851 (birth circa 1815)
                            48 in 1861 (birth circa 1813)
                             59 in 1871 (birth circa 1812)



Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 19:06 BST (UK)
I've found a death for Duncan McArthur  in 1875 age 64 which would make him born about 1811/12 so that birth i found previous won't be him.
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 19:12 BST (UK)
I've found a death for Duncan McArthur  in 1875 age 64 which would make him born about 1811/12 so that birth i found previous won't be him.

If you have found Duncan's death registration , you should have the name of his parents. These would be recorded assuming the informat of his death knew the information.


Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 19:52 BST (UK)
The death of Duncan McArthur 25 th October 1875 age 64 parents Duncan McArthur and Mary McDonald. Their son Duncan was born 21st November 1810 so the dates add up. Found this about birth on family search.
Margaret MacArthur born 16th July 1864. Parents Duncan and Euphemia MacArthur maiden name MacColl. So it's looks like they did marry
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 20:36 BST (UK)
The death of Duncan McArthur 25 th October 1875 age 64 parents Duncan McArthur and Mary McDonald. Their son Duncan was born 21st November 1810 so the dates add up. Found this about birth on family search.
Margaret MacArthur born 16th July 1864. Parents Duncan and Euphemia MacArthur maiden name MacColl. So it's looks like they did marry

That's good that you have found Duncan's parents.
Does Margaret's birth registration not have a note of the place and date of their marriage ? I would have thought it would. Who registered the birth?

Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 20:56 BST (UK)
No date of marriage it says Duncan MacArthur father not present. So presumably it was the mother who registered her.
It also spells her name as Euphane MacArthur.
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 21:14 BST (UK)
No date of marriage it says Duncan MacArthur father not present. So presumably it was the mother who registered her.
It also spells her name as Euphane MacArthur.

Euphane is a variation of the name Euphemia. I don't know if the other birth - Archibald in 1861 would enlighten you to a time and date of marriage - if nothing is recorded on Margaret's, his could be the same :-\ . Have you found Euphemia's death? That would at least give you her parents' names and you could look for both Duncan and Euphemia on the 1841 Census when they may well still have been single.

Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 21:58 BST (UK)
No I haven't yet thought I had with a death 1900 age 75. It said Euphemia McArthur widow of Duncan
Fisherman deceased but parents were Donald Turner and Euphemia Clark. Am I missing something did she marry a McColl first. If so how can I prove it?
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 22:27 BST (UK)
You mention a possible death in 1900 for Euphemia. What was the date and who reported it?

I did see this entry for 1901 which I thought would be her living by herself:

Euphemia Mcarthur 76 b. Milfort
Address: 24 High Stree Oban

Monica

Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 22:28 BST (UK)
Mmm?

There is a marriage in 1850 of Duncan McArthur to Euphemia Turner at Portnahaven, Argyll . I wonder if this is a different couple and the death is for a different Euphemia. Who registered the death and where did it take place?


Looby
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 22:32 BST (UK)
I think Euphemia's death might have been in 1902 in Kilmore and Kilbride (ref 523/ 78) showing as Euphemia McArthur/McColl aged 84.

Monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 22:33 BST (UK)
I think I have found her death in 1902 age 84 which is slightly out father Donald McColl (old soldier) whatever that means, no mother's name but don't think the informant was a relative. It looks like it could have been a doctor.
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 22:34 BST (UK)
The place where she died was 24 High street, Oban
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 22:36 BST (UK)
That address matches the 1901 entry we have. Looks like you have found her entry  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 22:39 BST (UK)
Sorry Monical think we found it at the same time. Yes I think this is her. So I have got a father's name at least.
Yes looby I think I got that marriage wrong
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 22:42 BST (UK)
Well you have got Euphemia now.

Wonder if we can find her on 1841?
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 22:52 BST (UK)
1851 Census
Duncan Mcarthur, 35 Fisherman born Kilmore
Effie Mcarthur, 27 born Kilmilford
Bell Mcarthur, 6
Carthrie Mcarthur, 4
Flora Mcarthur, 3
Donald Mcarthur, 1

Trish found them earlier.

Monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 22:55 BST (UK)
If Bell (Isobel/bella etc) was first born daughter I wonder if this is a clue to Euphemia's mother's name if they followed some form of Scottish naming pattern?

I did see this possible marriage/banns. Right time frame and place, for maybe Euphemia's parents:

Donald Maccoll and Isabel Mccoll
31 Oct 1816
Kilninver And Kilmelford,Argyll,Scotland

Monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: loobylooayr on Thursday 02 August 18 22:56 BST (UK)
Yes Monica - that's the 1851 which Trish found.

It's the 1841 Census , which could be before Duncan and Euphemia married I'm referring to.

Looby :)
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 23:05 BST (UK)
Yes it could be monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 02 August 18 23:09 BST (UK)
 :P Tired! Will struggle to add 1 + 1 I think.... ;D

Wendy, you mentioned from Euphemia's death cert that her father showed as 'old soldier'. Often this is referred to as a Chelsea Pensioner indicating that the ex soldier was still in receipt of a pension.

I found this record which given the location would fit well for Donald McColl http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8831296

Aged 46 in 1814 would give him a birth year of c 1768. Would also fit with him maybe going home and marrying later in life after 20 years of service?

Monica
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Thursday 02 August 18 23:28 BST (UK)
Yes me too. I will have a look tomorrow when my brain is working again
Thanks all
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Friday 03 August 18 20:08 BST (UK)
Hi
Ive found a birth for a Donald McColl born 7th August 1800, his parents are Donald McColl and Effy McCallum, obviously that throws out the marriage in 1816 and the war record. What do you think? If i could find Euphemia's  birth or marriage i could find out who her mother was.
Title: Re: Euphemia MacColl
Post by: Wendy Frances on Wednesday 08 August 18 18:46 BST (UK)
Have got a copy of Archibald MacArthur birth certificate and Duncan and Euphemia married 1844 in Kilmore.