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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: Weeford HoldcroftS on Thursday 02 August 18 16:29 BST (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone have access to LLangian Parish Registers? I am tracing my 3x great Grandmother Laura Williams born 1841 in Sarn Bach near Llangian. I am trying to find her father's name so I can continue backwards. Any help with the Williams in Langian would be a great help.
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Do you have her marriage as that should name her father
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The parish records are on freereg.
The only Laura Williams was baptised 30 Nov 1851 St Cian, Llangian.
Parents John & Mary.
Colin
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Hi
As Colc states there is no Laura Williams baptised in Llangian around 1841. There are a couple alternatives.
In 1840 there is a Lowry daughter of William and Lowry Jones, Pandy Saethon occupation Fuller.
The Williams maybe patronymic i.e. taking her father's christian name as her surname.
A fuller is one who cleans wool and Pandy is a Welsh word for a fuller's mill.
Another alternative is that she was baptised at Capel Newydd, Llangian however the records I can find on line only go as far as 1837.
Glyn
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Llangenan is very close to Sarn Bach and there are a number of baptisms which show Sarn Bach as the abode.
There is a Laura Williams baptised there in 1841, parents Thomas and Catherine Williams occupation Surgeon. The only problem is that the abode is Dwylan which is just North of Llangenan not in the direction of Sarn Bach. We would need a bit more of the evidence you have on Laura to help further.
Glyn
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Many thanks for all your help, it would appear there is more than one Laura Williams bapt in 1841, the census of that year also shows three Laura's which is why I thought I was going mad. I will have to track down the marriage cert to confirm her true father. I thought being a small place it would be easy. I was wrong.
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Do you know anything about the marriage? Who did she marry, approximately what year, where?
What is the first Census entry have you got for her?
Glyn
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Hi
Who did Laura marry, and are you sure of her birth year ?
I've found a marriage of a Laura Williams, Sarn Bach, with an age given, which doesn't agree with a birth date of 1841.
Emyr
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Previous post on Laura
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=478030.
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Looking at this again since we do not know the father's name. In the 1851 Census there are 3 Laura Williams aged 10/11 born in Llangian assuming that the birth date of about 1841 is correct and Laura did not leave the area before 1851. Of those three, two can be discounted. The Laura living on her Grandfather's farm Tan y Bryn is still there unmarried in the 1871 Census. The Laura living in Ty Newydd died in 1857 and is buried in Llangian Church Yard. This leaves the Laura Williams living at Tynyronnen.
1851 census Llangian
Hugh Williams head Mar 39 Postman 3 acres
Ellen Williams wife Mar 39
Laura Williams dau unmar 11
Siblings William 10, Ellen 9, Margaret 5, Mary 5. All the family born in Llangian
HO107/2513/408/23
in the 1861 census Laura is still at Tynyronnen but now head working as a Mantua maker. With her are her sister Mary 16 and step sister Margaret 15. which would indicate a second marriage for Hugh and Ellen.
Glyn
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Hi Rosie
Had a look at the previous post.
Hi Glyn,
Re your post Y Gestiana. Ordered a copy from Gwynedd Library of the original 1892? edition for inspection at Porthmadog Library. I have the 1975 reprint.
Hi Weeford
It would have spared people wasting hours of their time if you would have mentioned that there was a previous posting on the subject, and updated the info, especially info re the 1864 marriage, in particular the name of the father.
The marriage I found is in 1855, which could be correct if at time of the 1864 marriage Laura was a widow. I've been unable to trace the 1865 marriage on the websites which give you access to the Parish Registers.
I've found a LOURA Williams aged 11 months in 1841 Census. Have also found a birth in the right Registration District in the right quarter of 1840 (1841 Census was taken 6th June). Found the family in 1851, 1861 and 1871 Censuses, but not LAURA/LOURA ; could have died OR was staying with relatives on Census night 1851, and, as was very common, later moved to Merseyside to work as a maid.
Emyr
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Hi
In my last post 'I've been unable to trace the 1865 marriage' should read'1864'.
Previous posting on this family gives info re Manchester Cathedral wedding in March 1864 of a William Owen to Laura Williams. According to the Register her age was 25 and her father's name was William Williams, a farmer. This would give a birth year of 1839 if her birth date was in Q1. I think this family is the one that CaroleW mentions in previous posting.
William Williams, of Botwnnog married Elizabeth Griffiths in her parish, Llangian in 1828. There were children before Laura, who was baptised 28/01/1838, aged 3 in 1841 Census taken 6th June.
More to follow.
Emyr
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Hi
Info copied from Rosie's link, plus bit more:
Original posting by Weeford..
Trying to trace Laura Williams born 1838 Sarn, Caernarvonshire. This information was taken from the 1881 Census, Ashton on Mersey. As Sarn Bach is a very small hamlet, is there anyone who knows who Laura's father and mother were.
Replies by CaroleW
She married William Owen on 28.3.1864 at Manchester Cathedral
Sight of the marriage entry will give her fathers name. The 1841 only has one entry for her age but living in Llanddeiniolen. I checked the 1851 as well but none with Sarne as a birthplace
In 1871 - her birthplace is just Caernarvon but birthyear is 1840.
In 1891 - it's 1838 and just Wales
In 1901 it's Sarne 1838
Just had a look on my road atlas and Sarn was very close to Botwnnog and Bryncroes
Have a look at this 1851 entry for Bryncoes
(Penllech Uchaf ?)
William Williams 49 b Botwnnog - agric labourer
Elizabeth 41 b Llangian,
Laura 13 b Botwnnog
David 9 b Botwnnog
Elizabeth 7 bLlangian
Thomas 1 b Aberdaron
HO107 Piece 2514 Folio 96 Page 2
1841 Census
1841 indexed as Lowry Williams living in Bottwriog (is this now Botwnnog) Gafflogian Aberdaron. Aberdaron is where brother Thomas was born in 1849/50
(Brynllan)
William Williams 35 farmer
Ellizabeth 30
William 11
Margaret 12
Anne 6
Lowry 3
Ellen Roberts 25 servant
HO107 Piece 1392/1 Folio 7 Page 7
I've added the abodes, Penllech Uchaf? (1851) and Brynllan 1841.
…...
Baptisms, children of William/Elizabeth Williams, Farmer, Brynllan, Bottwnog:
Ann 13/09/1835 ; Laura 28/01/1838; David 26/12/1841 .
1861 Census William/Eizabeth/Thomas in Ty Bach, Bryncroes. William's age 61 rather than 59, and Elizabeth born Aberdaron – Thomas, Bryncroes, reverse of 1851; also another son Griffith 7, born Bryncroes. There's a problem with this area 1861 Census with Ancestry, brings up the wrong image – OK on Find my Past.
1871 Census (Ancestry) at Londdiffyg, Bryncroes. William 73!, Elizabeth 62 LLANGIAN, Griffith 17 Sailor Bryncroes.
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Many thanks for all your I have now been able to find Laura's marriage online and her father was William Williams. I found William's marriage to Elizabeth Griffith on the 12 Sept 1828 in Llangain the problem is it is only a transcript so I cannot see either William Williams father or Elizabeth Griffith. I tried to find William's birth but have found two separate entries which in Llangian which one is William's father? What I need is if any one knows where I can find Llangian Marriage register online so I can see the parents of William and Elizabeth. Ancestry and Find My past only have transcripts no father's mention. Can any one point me in the right direction or has access to the marriage register for Llangain 12 Sept 1828.
Many thanks
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Hi
Transcript on Y Ffor website doesn't give name of fathers in that period, probably because that information is not in the Parish Register. Fathers are shown in the next period 1837-1970. In 1813 - 37 period name of witnesses are shown; sometimes one or both parents were the witnesses. In this case the witnesses are James Parry and Owen Owens, so not the parents.
Emyr
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Agree with Emyr that the parents names were not listed on the wedding register during this period. I would suggest that if you are going to go back further that the easiest way is searching through Yffor.com database (requires a £5 donation allowing access for a month). All the parish registers in the Llyn are covered going back to the early 1700. However, looking at William Williams entries in the census it appears he was born in Botwnog around 1802. It should be remembered that names at this early date were generally patonymic. This one is I think is the best fit:
ID 73 Baptism 22/11/1801 William son of William and Catherine James abode Tanrallt.
Glyn