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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Gadget on Saturday 04 August 18 10:58 BST (UK)
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Not sure if this is a lost cause but hope someone will know.
We had a family bible which had lots of cuttings, pressed flowers etc in it. One cutting had a newspaper clip of my grandfather in a formal group photograph of British and Russian soldiers. I remember as a young girl being told that he was among the first troops to meet the Russians but maybe this was hearsay from 40 years previously.
I inherited the bible but quite a few of the cuttings were missing. I would love to find that photo. Would anyone know where I might find a copy or where the photo might have been taken. I've done a newspaper search but nothing comes up so far.
He was in the RWF.
Thanks
Gadget
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There was an allied intervention in Russia after the revolution, 1918 certainly, but possibly by late 1917.
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Hi Gadget,
What newspaper search have you made so far? Have you looked through the Illustrated Chronicle which is kept in huge tomes at the Newcastle City library? If you haven't looked at this I would definitely suggest you do. This newspaper is chock full of photos from the Great War. What you describe sounds like the type of thing to have featured in this newspaper.
Have you also tried the Newcastle Weekly Chronicle (as opposed to the Evening Chronicle)? This is also at the library - some editions are on microfilm and some in the huge tomes which you have to sign for to get out.
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The Army was in Russia well into 1919.
Britain was part of an international force sent to assist the white Russians against the Bolsheviks.
11/RWF was part of that.
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I can't find any pics. of British and 'White' Russian troops in 1918/19.
Found a pic. of Red Army prisoners with British soldiers in England prior to repatriation in 1920, but lost it.
Americans, Australians (I think) and Czechs (former Austro-Hungarian Army) also took part.
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He was back home in Wales after the war. Died 1924 and had a military funeral (of pneumonia) . I do have a pic of that.
Thanks for looking. I'll do some more searching.
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Do you have his name, Battalion & number?
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Have details somewhere on one of my other machines. it was a long time ago and I've moved house twice and machines and backups a few times - Annie found the info.
Will look them up. Won't give name online though - possibly identifiable descendants.
Gadget
Added - might have been the Western Daily Mail.
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Have you thought of contacting the RWF Regimental Museum (based in Caernarfon Castle)? Or there's a facebook page "Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1900 - 1919" which might be able to help.
Cati
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Have you thought of contacting the RWF Regimental Museum (based in Caernarfon Castle)? Or there's a facebook page "Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1900 - 1919" which might be able to help.
Cati
Thanks.
I did check with them a few years ago. Is the Facebook page open or closed? I've never joined FB but could ask a friend to look/ask :)
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Just had a thought - I think, in some of the bits and pieces that I have, he mentions his commanding officer. I'll see if I can find it.
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It might have been Gilbert Kingsby Lloyd, but I think he might have been in Shropshire Yeomanry in 1901.
:-\
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It's not the Gilbert Lloyd that keeps coming up on the usual sites as he was from Glamorganshire. This one was Denbighshire/Shropshire
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It was Gilbert's brother John Daniel Stuart Lloyd. He was a medical student in 1901
RG13/2546/161/9
Grandfather used to shoot with him
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Found this
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3699976
(More details on FindMyPast)
Added -odd 'cos GF was in RWF :-\
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The facebook group is an open group (or it was when I joined - don't think it's changed since)
Cati
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Thanks
I've just found one photo in my files. It's a very small version of one I have on a backup disk. Not sure if it's any help as he's just in a standard uniform and no detail.
I've enlarged by 400%
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I can't find any pics. of British and 'White' Russian troops in 1918/19.
Found a pic. of Red Army prisoners with British soldiers in England prior to repatriation in 1920, but lost it.
Americans, Australians (I think) and Czechs (former Austro-Hungarian Army) also took part.
Some info re Australian AIF and Russia 1919... oops , edit here's The shrunk url link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mgq/
Maybe there's some clues in that wikipedia info to help point to photos ...
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Thanks for all the suggestions, hints, etc. I shall persevere.
The annoying thing is that I can still 'see' the cutting. The report and photographs were on the top right hand side of the newspaper. There was a formal group photograph and, to the right of that, another photo of granddad shaking hands with someone!
PS - for Jim: I found a copy of his medal card in my files. He was in the Welsh Horse (L/Cpl) and then the RWF and had all the usual medals. The numbers and other writing are very blurred and, having found it again, the online record is no better.
Dates were 30.4.15 to 27.11.18
Theatre (1) France
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I can't remember the meeting of Russians WW1 but I can certainly remember seeing the event in WW2.
Have a look through these.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ww1+russian+soldiers+and+british+soldiers+meet&rlz=1C1DIEZ_enGB803GB803&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5ocHf29bcAhWyyIUKHYAIDssQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1267&bih=591
Don't forget to click on more results at the bottom
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Thanks, Tomkin, I looked through those yesterday.
TG for the Russians on the Eastern Front in WW2.
PS - my grandmother (on the other side), who is shown in my avatar, was a volunteer nurse in WW1. There was a small relief hospital in the village for sick and injured soldiers.
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difficult with no information about him. Was he discharged or did he go onto the Z list ?
27/11/18 is really too early for the Z list.
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It says Discharged 27.11.18.
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Does it say anywhere Para. 392
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No :-\
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If you have an ancestry sub you should be able to find him on the SWB list.
Reason was probably unfit for further service.
So not in Russia in 1919.
Are you sure it was your Grandfather?
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Thanks, Jim.
It has a Para no.
Para 392 (16) KR
I was him as it mentioned him in the text and certainly looked like him. I last remember seeing it when I was in my early 20s.
I only want to see the newspaper again. His service record was one of those that didn't survive. I'll Hv another look through Gale/ Times Archive.
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I assume that (16) means no longer fit for military service. Age given as 52 , which is more or less correct as his discharge date was 2 days before his birthday!
I think the Welsh Horse entry was the TA part as I know he was a volunteer much before WW1* so I assume he then transferred to the RWF for duration.
* they seem to have done a lot of practise shooting, etc. I know he had lots of cups for shooting competitions.
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OK. August 1918 saw the first British troops in Russia at Arkangel. It does say a number of men regarded as unfit were sent there as stores guards.
According to the blurb 11/RWR were there.
Was this his Battalion?
Sorry for all the questions only I'm trying to establish if it's possible for him to have been there at all.
I think your best bet is contacting the museum directly. I know you've tried before but it's always worth another shot.
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/rhyfel-byd-cyntaf.html
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Thanks, Jim. I'll have another go.
It could be the 11th as it was raised in Wrexham. I only have his 1915 diary and the info fits. However, he might have gone to Shrewsbury. Where was the North Wales Horse TA base?
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Looks as if the Welsh Horse went into the 25th from That Astonishing Infantry': The History of The Royal Welch Fusiliers 1689-2006, page 285
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He may have transferred. to the 11th.
His Medal Roll will give a list of his Battalions he served overseas with.
The SWB list will give his discharge Batt.
Edit:
The 1/1st. WHY had it's HQ at Cardiff later Newtown.
I can't see anything for a North Wales Horse TF.
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PS - for Jim: I found a copy of his medal card in my files. He was in the Welsh Horse (L/Cpl) and then the RWF and had all the usual medals. The numbers and other writing are very blurred and, having found it again, the online record is no better.
Dates were 30.4.15 to 27.11.18
Theatre (1) France
This is all it lists on medal card for regiments. No Battalion mentioned.
I brought up in one of my searches yesterday a ref to the Welsh Horse and Shropshire Horse and something about the North Wales Horse. I'll go through 'my history' to see if it's still there.
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The actual medal rolls that are free on ancestry this week will give you the info. Find your relative using the medal Index card in the medal rolls
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=5119
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Thanks for suggestion but I did get the medal card*
about 7 years ago on Ancestry and others at Jim's suggestion. It's the photo that I'm trying to find.
I'll complete this thread now as I don't think the newspaper can be found at the moment.
Thanks to all who replied.
* no it was about 2006 as it was on my first website :o