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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: ele002 on Monday 06 August 18 13:36 BST (UK)
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Wondering if anyone can throw any light on some 'Abodes' shown on some Parish Records.
1816...'Nuttall Factory'
Christenings at Edenfield 1809 & 1814...'Kay Barn' & 'Raybarn' (Possibly same)
Burial at Edenfield 1832...'Kingbarn'
Christening at St Mary, Bury 1777...'Bell'
Regards, Eric.
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According to newspaper reports. there was a William Nuttall's factory, Shuttleworth.
Stan
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If you google Kay Barn, there is a modern reference to a house for sale and a business etc
https://ramsbottom.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/trackatask-ltd-22916568.html
You can check the post code on Old Maps
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/381444/417848/12/101394
My link doesn’t quite work to show the area but you can get it from the list on the left or if that fails use the post code.
Stan is much better with maps :)
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You can see Kay Barn on the 1893 map at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/381357/417889/12/101394
Stan
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Thanks. Good starting points.
I like the Shuttleworth bit, although the Nuttall/Nuttall Lane area would be good, especially with Factory.
Early days yet. Eric.
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Thanks. Good starting points.
I like the Shuttleworth bit, although the Nuttall/Nuttall Lane area would be good, especially with Factory.
Early days yet. Eric.
What is the context of this address - baptism, burial?
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Nuttall Factory is on a Burial at Holcombe....3 Apr 1807 for Susan Rothwell. She had 2 sons Baptised and 1 buried...all of Nuttall, then her Widowed Husband, has 2 more children Baptised (with his next wife) of Nuttall.
Stan.....got the 1893 map and found the location on a more recent one. Interestingly, Fecit shows on another Parish Record. Initially, I thought it was meant to be Facit.
A lot of food for thought.
Thanks, Eric.
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Yes I have seen a reference on Lancs opc to Nuttall - might have been your Rothwell.
There is Nuttall Lane and Nuttall Park. On old maps, the area Nuttall Lane seems to refer to an area rather than a lane.
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1893 shows Nuttall - there is a Nuttall Mill and Nuttall Hall farm.
Not sure though if I have read that the Nuttall Mill was later than your dates :-\
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Nuttall was site of a factory + workers houses + a hall. Now Nuttall Park, Ramsbottom ( Holder of a Green Flag award and Finalist in Best British Park 2 years ago. :))
I downloaded a photo of ruined mill and cottages sometime ago. I'll see if I can locate it.
Holcombe was a much larger parish than it is now as the original chapel predated most others in the area. Holcombe residents married at Bury Parish church until mid 19thC.
I think Edenfield was a chapel-of-ease until 19thC.
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That sounds very favourable and looks like the place I mentioned on 1893 map. :)
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Is this it, Maiden Stone?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mgw/
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According to the Victoria County History of Lancashire, Nuttall and Nuttall Lane were 2 hamlets.
The Victoria County Histories are digitised as " British History Online". See: Townships: Tottington: Tottington Lower End. The Manor and Township of Tottington consisted of 2 parts, Tottington Lower End and Tottington Higher End. Holcombe, Holcombe Brook, Brooksbottom, Nuttall, Nuttall Lane and Ramsbottom were all in Tottington Lower End.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol5/pp143-150
An early census, possibly 1841 or 1851 has Nuttall or Nuttall Lane at top of page as township or village. I've found people residing in Nuttall at that time. It was a thriving place then. Tranquil now, except when steam trains chug through at weekends. One occasionally stumbles across industrial remains in the wooded area of Nuttall Park.
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Is this it, Maiden Stone?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mgw/
Yes that's the picture. I can't see a date. Someone maybe able to date it from clothing of inhabitants.
Only building now is the Hall, long since converted into cottages. There used to be a solitary cottage beside a bridge but I don't know if it's standing yet.
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That’s very helpful MS.
I am sure Eric will be delighted.
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A book "Always Turn the Page - The Robinson story 1600-2000" which is a family history by David Robinson, published online by Manchester & Lancs. FHS, has a chapter on Edenfield in early 18thC with contemporary map, and a chapter on the village of Summerseat, just South of Nuttall. The Summerseat chapter has small pictures of Nuttall Hall and Grants' Tower and a little bit about the Grant and Peel families. Nuttall Hall was the home of the Grant family, the millowners who developed Ramsbottom. Charles Dickens put them in a novel as the Cheeryble Brothers.
David Robinson's book is available as a pdf. mlfhs.org.uk/articles/Always_Turn_the_Page.pdf
Chapter 6 Edenfield pages 30-35, map of Edenfield p.31. (Author may have added details to map.)
Chapter 7 Summerseat 1843-1851, photos of Nuttall Hall and Grants' tower p. 37.
There's a lot more information about the Grant family and their mills in local history publications.
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I've just seen this about Summer 2018 edition of Bury & District Local History Society Journal. I haven't read the article so I don't know if it will be any help.
"Field Names in Walmersley" by Fred Slater. Apparently it's an old article, recently discovered. Neither do I know how large an area the article covers. Walmersley-cum-Shuttleworth was a township in 19thC and an electoral ward in 20th.
A meeting advertised in the journal is "Origins of place names" .
www.burylhs.org.uk/journal.html
An order form can be downloaded.
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That sounds very favourable and looks like the place I mentioned on 1893 map. :)
Nuttall Hall is shown on the 1893 map, just south of the highlighted Shuttleworth square. The river forms a large curve to the west of the hall. A little distance to the south of Nuttall Hall are the mill and some buildings which might have been terraces of workers' cottages. "Cotton mill" is written on map. Mill and cottages are conveniently situated between river and railway line. "Nuttall" is written near this collection of buildings. The solitary cottage and industrial archaeological remains, the latter hidden by vegetation, which I mentioned in earlier posts were in this area, late 20thC.
An area marked "Nuttall Lane" is about half-a-mile west of the hamlet of Nuttall, at the crossroads. Nuttall Lane was one of the original roads to Holcombe Village. The part of the lane above the present main road (Bolton Road West and Bolton St.) is now called Dundee Lane. A few cottages in Dundee Lane are very old and may have been handloom weavers' cottages, predating industrialisation. From this Nuttall Lane area it's a short, steep walk to Holcombe Church, shorter still through fields and wood.
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Many thanks to everybody.
At least Kay Barn has been found and after a fresh look, King Barn is actually Kay Barn.
In the absence of anything else, I will settle on Nuttall Factory being in Nuttall/Nuttall Lane area. I'll read up on that later. Nice picture by the way. Could well be the place.
Gives me a better picture of where people were.
Just leaves the place 'Bell' on the St Mary's Christening, if anyone has any ideas.
Many thanks, Eric.
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Have you tried searching for any place ‘Bell’ in the area? Sometimes modern names retain the old or part of the old name.
If you find something worth checking, you can use the modern postcode on the Old Maps site to check.
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Just leaves the place 'Bell' on the St Mary's Christening, if anyone has any ideas.
Was baptism at St. Mary Parish Church, Bury? My 1st thought is Bell Lane (B622). It's a wide road, leading east from Bury town centre. It's at a right angle to Walmersley Road which is one of the roads north from Bury. Behind Bell Lane is an area called Freetown.
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Nuttall Old Hall was the seat of the De Notagh family (later known as Nuttall) from 1377-1698. The Old Hall was built in 1429. John Grant, of the mill-owning family, bought the Nuttall Estate in 1812 and built Nuttall Hall 1817. It's the stable-block and outbuildings of the hall of Grant's day which survive, not part of the hall itself.
The lone cottage was sole survivor of around 100 at Nuttall village.
See leaflet Village Link - Walk 3 - Holcombe, Ramsbottom - Park Farm. This has a detailed map showing area early 21stC. Text refers to "many of the people who worked in the early mills in Nuttall village"
www.village-link.com/Walk-3-Holcombe-Ramsbotton-Park-Farm.html
Also Visit Manchester - Ramsbottom, Summerseat & Holcombe Walk 12.
Unfortunately the website "Old Nuttall Village www.lineone.net/-davghalgh/nutallvillagepictures.html is no longer accessible since TalkTalk has stopped hosting it. That's where I first saw the photo.
Nuttall Mill is on a list of cotton mills in Ramsbottom in 1891 on Grace's Guide website. It had 600 looms. Also on the list is Richard Nuttall's Turn Mill at Shuttleworth with 5000 spindles. Turn is a little place between Shuttleworth and Edenfield. (Not that the other 2 places are big.)
Grace's Guide is for sources of historical records pertaining to industry or business.
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/1891_cotton_mills_in_Ramsbottom
As Nuttall was a recognised locality long before Industrial Revolution, the Nuttall abode would have been Nuttall Village area or possibly the Nuttall Lane area.
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I haven't come up with anything with a Bell connection in the area.
Yes, it was at St Mary's Church. I suppose Bell Lane would seem highly likely. It was a main road and most people in the area probably lived along it. Looking on a map c1818, there appear to be buildings along the road.
There are quite a few references to 'Bell' on the Christenings that year.
Again, many thanks. Eric.
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I think the Mill at Shuttleworth is a bit far out. Nuttall/Nuttall Lane seems the most likely.
Nuttall Factory was probably the name it was known by at the time.
Something may turn up when I get round to reading about the area.
Looking at the burials of the time, there are other people 'of Nuttall Factory' as well as 'Nuttall' and 'Nuttall Lane', which looks as though there was housing there for the workers. That makes Nuttall Mill look a good proposition.
Eric.
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I think the Mill at Shuttleworth is a bit far out. Nuttall/Nuttall Lane seems the most likely.
If it was Shuttleworth, Edenfield church would have been the nearest churchyard, about a mile, along the same side of the valley.
Shuttleworth and Holcombe are on opposite sides of the Irwell Valley. I can't remember exact years the turnpike roads in the area were opened; some were being laid around 1st decade of 19thC. It appears to me that if transporting a corpse in 1807, the most direct route from Shuttleworth to Holcombe, along the old roads, was about 3 miles, most of it up hill and down dale, crossing the Irwell at Ramsbottom. The final mile from Ramsbottom to Holcombe Church is steep. They would need a cart or a reserve team of pallbearers, or many halts en route. (Oldest pub in Ramsbottom is partway up the last stretch.)
Nuttall village to Holcombe Church is a mile, via Nuttall Lane. Only the last furlong is very steep. Mourners could return via a short-cut and be back at work in no time.
Did you notice that 3 John Rothwell marriages at Bury were to women with surname Nuttall?
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When you take everything into account, it must be Nuttall Village/Mill. That's good enough for me.
As for the marriages, I got to 5....both not uncommon names in the area, which doesn't help my cause. This Susan Rothwell's widower's next wife was one of those Nuttalls and she died at Nuttall...possibly Nuttall Factory, but it just says Nuttall!
Regards, Eric.
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Nuttall was a small hamlet on the side of the River Irwell just outside Ramsbottom. There was a mill there and there are photographs on the Ramsbottom Heritage web site. Nuttall Lane is a road, previously a lane linking the ,main Ramsbottom - Bolton road and going down towards the river past what was Ramsbottom Cottage Hospital and eventually over the hill into Summerseat.
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From "Introduction to Ramsbottom" on Ramsbottom Heritage Society website:
"Welcome to Ramsbottom, a small friendly town founded in the Georgian era from scattered farmsteads and the hamlet of Nuttall."
List of questions on the website include a few about people who lived in or near Nuttall.
An oral history tape in the society's catalogue is someone's grandmother's memories of Nuttall, recording ID T55. The society's archive is kept by Bury Libraries.
www.ramsbottomheritage.org.uk
For 21st century photos see Friends of Nuttall Park. Their website also has a small modern map. www.friendsofnuttallpark.co.uk
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Mancuniensis website has lists of townships and hamlets in parishes in Salford Hundred.
www.mancuniensis.info/index.htm
Salford Hundred: Ancestry, Annals and History: Townlands: Tottington Lower End: 1830: Nuttall:
"Nuttall, a hamlet in the township of Tottington Lower End, parish of Bury, Hundred of Salford, 3 miles N. from Bury. Nuttall Hall is the seat of John Grant, esq."
Source seems to be "The New Lancashire Gazetteeer or Topographical Dictionary" 1830.
See also the map of Bury parish under heading "maps".
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Sorry I didn't get back earlier. I haven't been on this site or, any in fact, very much the last few months.
Very interesting reading. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that all these people are related. I've got 3 sets of names from around the Ramsbottom area that I'm convinced must be connected, but I haven't been able to make any firm connections. They stretch from Edenfield, down to Nuttall, which is why I was trying to get a fix on where the various locations. It's still a work in progress.
Many thanks. Regards, Eric.