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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: HmmS336 on Tuesday 07 August 18 14:20 BST (UK)
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My brick wall - the first record I have of my grandmothers grandmother is in 1871 census - she is living with her mother and her mothers husband. Mother and daughter share the same name (just to confuse) and I have all but given up trying to find where they were from or find a birth date that would then help prove a birth if I ever find one!
Mothers first appearance in the records, that I have, is her marriage to soldier originally from Fearn in 1856. Married in Berwick. Two male witnesses (soldier friends?)
All censuses for both between 1871 and 1911 say simply England as place of birth. I assume that the child was illegitimate as per her death entry by her husband and the mothers marriage where it is written Spinster.
Daughter on her marriage has given a fathers name and as deceased and this is noted on their children's birth and death certificates - those that I have. Could be a lead but I have searched the name and cannot find anything. I assume that the daughter was illegitimate as per her death entry by her husband and her mothers marriage where it is written Spinster.
Is there anything that I have overlooked that may give either a place of birth or a birth date for either?
Daughter dies first - then step father who leaves everything to his wife (the mother) in his will then three years later mother and son in law in the same year. There is property but no one else has a will, that I can see on SP. The mothers death cert is signed by bank trustee (no info with regard to parents) and the inventory of her late husband is added to after her death.
The daughter and husband along her own daughter and family are living at one of the houses in 1911 . Would there be a legal trail? This daughter (same first name as her mother and grandmother) is 2nd of 4 living girls and there is an older brother, that is owner in the valuation rolls up to 1935 and is where she dies in 1950. ****
Just looking for anything that may help me find where the two were born!
**** - edited to add MJ Stewart is the oldest girl but not oldest child- I had them listed incorrectly.
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You could try to find a baptism record?
If you named mother and daughter, together with birth years, maybe one of us RootsChatters could find something for you?
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I have tried and tried ! Though fresh eyes may see something -
they are both Mary Jane Dickinson - born 1830ish and 1850ish - I bought a record from Gro for a Bradford birth but its not this one (forgot to cross reference with deaths) I had been following on for them 1851/61 census. Bradford birth with mum not there and assumed it was her - no, that MJD died same quarter
No sign in 1861 - soldier maybe abroad and family with him? He is Peter Urquhart and in the RA (Coast).
Looking at Peters will again - it shows that MJ senior could not read and write (never having been shown how) amd signed with an X so whilst this is the spelling used it may not be what any original recordings may show.
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Is this the family in 1881 Inverness :-\
Peter Urquhart 52 bn Fearn
Mary Jane Urquhart 50 bn England
James Stewart 39 bn Fortingall, Perthshire
Mary Jane Stewart 31 bn England
James Peter Stewart 1 bn Inverness
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Yes - thats them - have them both through 71 to 1911 census - all say England for their births.
They stay in the Inverness area in the main.
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Possible?
Baptism, 24 Sept 1850 at Spalding, Lincolnshire
Mary Jane Dickinson, daughter of Jane Dickinson
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Thanks for the suggestion - its one I have looked at before - my biggest -'con' is why are they in Berwick, 6 years later? Its a good distance for a single mother and small child. Pro - MJD senior on marriage to Peter claims her father was Thomas and I found a family in 1841in the Lincolnshire area that fitted.
I though if I had a birth date- or area they were from then I might be able to join the dots. This birth does not seem to appear on GRO, though.
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A little on Peter Urquhart here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13216014 and http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12754025
Doesn't help on the issue of the two MJDs :-\
Monica
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Have you come across this entry for a Mary, unmarried, and a daughter Mary Dickenson from 1851? From Family Search (you need to be logged on to view) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGY6-3VY
Maybe connects to this baptism for Mary Snr with father Thomas. Same birth place from the 1851 census
Baptism: 11 Apr 1825 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Mary Dickinson - Daughter of Thomas Dickinson & Ann
Abode: Abram, Wigan
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Jacob Robson Curate
Register: Baptisms 1821 - 1825, Page 272, Entry 2169
Source: LDS Film 1885647
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
The occupation for the father Thomas of weaver is similar to that of Mary Dickenson in 1851.
Monica
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Thomas married Ann in 1811:
Marriage: 15 Aug 1811 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Thomas Dickinson - (X), Abram
Ann Ward - Abram
Witness: Wm. Bancks; Samuel Dickinson
Married by Banns by: Geo. Henderick Curate
Register: Marriages 1803 - 1812, Page 336, Entry 4534
Source: LDS Film 1885690
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
I can see a possible entry for a son Peter on FS for 1813 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ7G-Q5S but that is it for this couple.
There is an entry in 1841 for a 15 yr old Mary Dickenson in Hidley Wigan, living by herself I think and showing as a silk weaver (similar occupation to the Mary Snr from 1851).
Monica
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A better possibility for 1841 for Mary with family here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQGH-JBM
Was there an occupation given for MJD's father Thomas on her 1855 marriage to Peter?
Monica
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Boo...delete delete
Mary and daughter Mary ANN show in Leigh, Lancashire for 1861... :'(
Monica
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Ha, Monica -thats been my problem for a LONG time - I think 1 have them and then I dont! ;D ;D
On her marriage MJ senior says her father is Thomas and a labourer and her death shows lines (for first name) Dickinson - farmer deceased and lines for all mothers names, this was signed by a bank trustee - her only daughter (MJ) dying 3 years earlier.
On her marriage MJ junior declares her self to a Cotham and daughter of Robert. I have found nothing to prove this, even finding a Robert Cotham has been elusive!
Looking again I actually have nothing to show that she was born or even used the name Dickinson!
In the '71 census she is just ditto'd under MJ and Peter Urqhuart and then married using Cotham. However her husband chose to record her death as an illegitimate birth with 'reputed' father, Robert Cotham.
Its all a mystery - however I keep in mind there were born somewhere!
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Another possible birth...........
Mary Jane Dickenson
Birth
26/03/1850
Baptism
21/04/1850 Bradford, St Peter, Yorkshire
Mother's Name Mary Dickenson
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Thanks for the suggestion Capricorn - this Mary Jane died in the same quarter and mum living with her mum,dad and siblings in the 1851 census - the birth certificate and census shows the same address.
Edited to add - its the next quarter
DICKINSON, MARY JANE 0 Order
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in BRADFORD AND NORTH BIERLEY YORKSHIRE Volume 23 Page 107 Order
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There's a Mary Jane Cottam, no mother's maiden name, 1850 Chorlton, Lancashire - which is, I admit, a long shot - but long shots sometimes hit the mark ;D
COTTAM, MARY JANE
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 222
Haven't found an obvious match for this child beyond the birth registration- still looking....
Ruth
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Thats a new route, thank you - not thought about that!
I will dig around ..... :)