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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: pyghtle on Wednesday 08 August 18 15:32 BST (UK)
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This is a follow up to information I discovered in a previous post. I am looking for information on Evelyn Watson, that his her married name, before marriage she was called Evelyn Russell and she was born in 1886 in Leeds. I am interested in when and where she married and where she lived after marriage, I am trying to find if she had any connection with a town called Teddington in the district of Kingston., there are a few Evelyn Russell in BMD but non which include spouse surname.
Many Thanks Brenda
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Previous post mentioning Evelyn: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=797406.msg6553045#msg6553045
Just to clarify, are you saying that she was Evelyn Watson at the time she notified her brother's death (Oct-Nov 1918)?
Have you found her in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, and if so, where was she and what name was she using then?
Also, is she in the 1939 register? With a husband?
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1901 census: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9PX-MPL
At Rock View Road, Leeds with father John and brothers Harold (19) and Roland (12).
The 2 brothers are with father William(?) on the 1911 census.
No sign of Evelyn.
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Picture of 3 Windsor Road, Teddington, the address at time of brothers death is on Teddington society wiki page :)
http://www.teddsoc-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Windsor_Road_3-50
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Yes, she was Evelyn Watson when she registered her brothers death in 1918, her maiden name was Evelyn Russell and I have her in all census up to 1911, I cannot find her in the 1937 register.
She was still Evelyn Russell in the 1911 census and she lived in the Burnantofts area of Leeds, she must have married therefor between 1911 and 1918.
I cannot find a marriage or a death for her.
Thanks
Brenda
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I have all the information about Evelyn, I lived in the same area as a child, I just need the marriage info, thank you also Rosie, I also have the picture of 3 Windsor Road, looks a grand house, the death certificate of victims of the flu pandemic shows the number of days of the illness, Roland’s says 7 days, so I presume that he would have been in isolation for this length if time, maybe the House was taken over as an isolation hospital, this is why I am trying to find out why his sister was with him, they were poor as children so unless she married soneone with a lot of money it could not have been her house. I have written to the Teddington Historical society to see if I can find any information about the house.
Thanks everyone!
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Is this her birth?
Oct/Nov/Dec 1885 Leeds Eveline Russell
Possible marriage:
Apr/May/Jun 1913 Paddington - Eveline Russell to either Percival Raphael or Charles E L Heath
No forget that - she dies as Eveline Raphael - so didnt remarry to a Watson as I was hoping! Being war time I thought there was a strong chance that she could be widowed and remarried by 1918...
Posting anyway to save anyone else going through the same process
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There is also a marriage in 1915 of an Evelyn Russell to a Thomas Hebert Muir. The allegation gives her an address in Teddington, which is interesting though could be a coincidence!
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Yes - I think that's it!!
As there is then a marriage Jul/Aug/Sep 1916 Kingston - Evelyn Muir to William Watson!
Sorted?
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I have all the information about Evelyn, I lived in the same area as a child, I just need the marriage info, thank you also Rosie, I also have the picture of 3 Windsor Road, looks a grand house,
Not as grand as some in Teddington ;D
I wonder if they were renting
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Might this be the death of her first husband - https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1594811/muir,-thomas-herbert/
Golders Green, mentioned here, is close to Hampstead, where the marriage took place. But if it is him, it looks as though he still had his parents listed as next of kin, rather than his new wife.
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Looks highly likely.
But she must have remarried within weeks of his death.
Getting the Muir/Watson marriage cert would confirm (or rule out) as would say if she was a widow and if her father was a Russell.
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Yes, it is him. Marriage at St James, West Hampstead on 27 Dec 1915 - image at Ancestry.
He's an Electrical Engineer (Pioneer 1st Canadian), son of William Joseph Muir. She's daughter of Jack Russell, of independent means, and gives an address in Teddington.
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Lots been discovered while I've been 'dabbling'.
From what I have found her husband appears to be a William Watson and at least one child they had was a George G. Watson born in 1922 Epsom. Looks like they moved around somewhat and living in Hampshire before the war.
She was born in the last quarter of 1885 and think this is her death entry:
Evelyn Watson bc.1886 died Sept.qtr.1950 Poole, Dorset.
Annette
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Possible children for Evelyn
WATSON, Evelyn Alberta mmn RUSSELL
1917 Sep KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 683
Watson Harry E mmn Russell
1919 Dec Kingston 2a 958
Watson George G mmn Russell
1922 Dec Epsom 2a 42
and this might be Evelyn on incoming passenger list
Evelyn Watson 45, housewife
Evelyn A Watson 13
Port of Departure: Quebec, Canada
Arrival date: 6 Jun 1931
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Cherbourg
Ship Name: Empress of Australia
Proposed address in UK 50, The Parade Epsom
Evelyn Watson 47 Housewife
Harry Watson 12
George Watson 9
Evelyn A Watson 15
Port of Departure: Quebec, Canada
Arrival date: 14 Jun 1933
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Quebec
Ship Name: Empress of Australia
Proposed address in UK “Magpie” Dorking Rd Epsom
Edit - outgoing passenger list
Evelyn Watson 45 Housewife
Evelyn Watson 13
Pevensey No 50 The Parade Epsom
Departure Date: 25 Jul 1931
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: Montreal, Canada
Ship Name: Montclare
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free search 1939 register in Bournemouth C.B. Hampshire
William 1884, Evelyn 1885 & George G WATSON 1922 and 2 officially closed
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Hi, Sorry I had to cook tea and then it has taken me a while to digest the information.
First of all, you are right KGarrad, Evelyn is not on the 1911 census, I was going by memory before, now I have the details in front of me, she would have been 25 years old when that census was taken, maybe she appears on another census under her married name.
Hi Lizdb, It surely must be more of a coincidence, does the marriage in Teddington give an actual address? It must be her, for her brother to die there, more than coincidence! I do not have a subscription to Ancestry any more as until this cropped up, I had hit a brick wall with my family history and found I was not using it. Thank you arthurk, what worries me about your info is that Evelyn’s father was John William Russell and for most of his later years he was out of work or when in work he was a coal miner, did you mean that Evelyn was the person of independent means? If so her first husband must have been wealthy!
I think I can now establish the fact that my Grandfather Roland died at his sisters house in Teddington, at the time my Grandmother was in Leeds with 3 small children, he was buried in Leeds though! Maybe probate in Ancestry would throw up some information if someone could do that for me. Thanks again everyone, I will now read and digest it all again.
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Thank you arthurk, what worries me about your info is that Evelyn’s father was John William Russell and for most of his later years he was out of work or when in work he was a coal miner, did you mean that Evelyn was the person of independent means? If so her first husband must have been wealthy!
It means that her father was of independent means. I don't know how old he'd have been then, but might he have had some kind of pension, so that he no longer needed to work? Or was it a euphemism for unemployed?
Just to give you a bit more from the register entry, Evelyn was aged 30, and of "St Lucia", Hampton Road, Teddington. And in case it helps, the witnesses were Gladys Ahrens (?) Muir, George Llewellyn Hopkins, and Horace S Lee.
Ancestry have 3 military records for Thomas H Muir, but they seem to be inaccessible to me, possibly because he was in a Canadian regiment. They should be available with a worldwide sub, or at a library. Alternatively, Ancestry currently have a free offer on their sister site Fold3, for British and Commonwealth military records. That might be worth a look, but remember to look out for them taking money and auto-renewing etc.
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I think it is a euphemism for out of work! I know where they lived in all the places in the various census, I lived in the same area myself, back to back rented terraces houses, most of them have gone now, but they live forever on the web site Leodis, I grew up in these streets! Those witness names mean nothing to me, Ancestry have free access to Military records until tomorrow evening, I have just been looking but could not find anything. What happened to Roland has always eluded me, as I have mentioned before everyone said he died in the war, so for years I have been barking up the wrong tree, it was purely by accident that I found the web site “Yorkshire Indexers” and there he was buried in Harehills Cemetery, a stones throw from where I lived until getting married and yet no one spoke of this, My Grandmother Emma (Roland’s wife) was part of the family and was 80 when she died, The trouble is we discover these things when there is no one around who remembers them to share it with!
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Maybe probate in Ancestry would throw up some information if someone could do that for me.
Why use Ancestry when you can go to the original source?
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar
Remember to select the tab for 1858-1996! ;D
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Thanks.....I never knew that!
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Thanks to everyone for the help given....I have found a record of the marriage of Evelyn Russell to Thomas Herbert Muir and I intend to send for the marriage certificate to check that this is my Evelyn, I would like to ask for one more look up please, Evelyn is not on the 1911 census with her father and brothers in Yorkshire, she married in 1915, so where was she living in the intervening years, where was she when the 1911 census was taken, if I could find this it would maybe give a clue as to how she met and married Thomas Herbert in 1915.
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I think all the details of the marriage of Evelyn Russell to Thomas Herbert Muir have been given on this thread.
I would say it is the marriage of Evelyn Muir to William Watson that you might want to get.
However I think enough evidence has been given to confirm that this is indeed the same Evelyn throughout.
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Thank you lizdb, I also do believe that this Evelyn is Evelyn Russell, I will send for the marriage certificate for the other information that it may give me ie where was she living, what was her occupation etc. I would also like to find out how she came to marry someone from the London area when she came from a very poor background in Leeds.
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Thank you lizdb, I also do believe that this Evelyn is Evelyn Russell, I will send for the marriage certificate for the other information that it may give me ie where was she living, what was her occupation etc.
If it's the marriage to Thomas Muir that you mean, a marriage certificate won't tell you any more than can be found in the image of the register at Ancestry. The register was completed at the time of the marriage, but a certificate might be taken from a transcribed copy of the register, so could contain errors. The image shows original signatures; in many cases certificates do not.
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Thank you, that is good advice, I think what worries me is that her father was named as Jack not John, possibly easy mistake but he certainly was not a man of private means, I just wondered if there was any reference to Yorkshire anywhere in the certificate. I have to admit that everything does seem to fit, I will send for the Muir /Watson marriage certificate instead. Thanks again.
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Many people named John are called Jack! ;D
It's very common.
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I was a bit thrown once when I found one of my ancestors whom I'd always thought of as John being referred to as Jack, but it is the standard familiar form. My father was John to almost everyone, but one cousin always called him Jack for some reason.
There's no reference to Yorkshire in the register, unfortunately - English marriage registers give fathers' names and occupations, but not where they lived. The space for Evelyn's occupation has a line drawn through.
The marriage entry records that it took place by licence rather than by banns, and Ancestry also has a record of that. Unfortunately it doesn't give any extra information - just the names, marital status, age (both 21 and upward), and parish of residence (not full addresses).
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One thing leads to another.... now try and sort this one out.
1911 census - no joy with Evelyn Russell, so I tried looking for any Evelyn of about the right age, born Leeds and living in Middlesex.
At the same address that Evelyn Russell gives at her marriage are Harry and Caroline Ellis, aged 57 & 49. Married 29 years, 3 children of whom one has died. He was born Richmond, Leeds (I think), she Scarborough.
Immediately below them, and just above a servant, is Evelyn Ellis, daughter, 26, single, no occupation, born Burmantofts, Leeds. Coincidence - or what?
This can be seen at ref RG14/3577 sch202
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Ancestry have 3 military records for Thomas H Muir, but they seem to be inaccessible to me, possibly because he was in a Canadian regiment.
Don't know if this will help or not........here's some of the information
WW1 Canadian Soliders
Thomas Herbert Muir bn Hampstead London, single
1st Pioneer Bn Enlistment place Vancouver on 4th October 1915
Next of kin father W J Muir 27 Hemstall Rd W Hampstead London
here’s some pieces from his Attestation Papers to many to type just confirming
Evelyn’s address and according to these papers her surname became Watson
Thomas Herbert Muir
Born 16th April 1880, occ Electrician
page 3
Medals & Decs widow Mrs Evelyn Muir, WATSON address St. Lucia Hampton Road
P & S widow see above
Mem. Cross widow see above
Mem cross mother Mrs Polly Muir 27 Henstall Rd We Hampstead
Desp. 17 Aug 1920
page 13
Latest address Mrs Evelyn Watson St Lucia Hampstead RoadThis has been crossed out and written underneath the address is “not known at this address”
Page 17
Arrived in England 30 Nov 1915
9/3/16 1st Pioneers Embarked for France 9 Mar 1916
7/6/16 apptd L?Corpl. France 26/6/16
20/6/16 Killed in Action Frnce 12/6/16
page 19 medical history
Examined 27 Sept 1915 at Vancouver Occ Electrician
Apparaent age 25 yrs 6 mos height 5ft 9 3/4
pg 23
Compulsory Militia & Defence Assigned Pay
Widow Mrs Evelyn Muir St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington
Jan 1916 receiving separation allowance
Jun 1916 payment was stopped KIA
Pg 25
next of kin father W J Muir
assigned pay monthly changed $15 to 25 on 1/4/16 to widow Mrs Evelyn Muir
St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington
Page 31 6/10/15
Separation Allowance
Evelyn Muir wife St Lucia Hampton Rd Teddington
remarks
Marriage cert produced, married 27/12/15
O.C’s permission obt.
Proof of eng. Estab.
Date of ?lication 11/5/16
KIA 12/6/16
Pension granted from 13/6/16 (to widow) a/c closed 25/9/16
$ 72.6 to be deducted from pension
Good idea to obtain the Muir/Watson marriage to check details
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Thank you arthurk, I skim read your posting when it arrived,but as usual....busy time of day so could not wait to get back to it to read and digest, just logged on again and there is that great detailed post from Ladyhawk, thank you so much, now I just need more time to read and digest both postings. Please do not think that I am not doing anything else at this end, I found details of the Evelyn’s first marriage on Family Search with the reference number, I also found that they had free access on their site to the 1911 census, so I found the same details there, I have also emailed Canadian Army Veteran Affairs for details of Thomas, but you have beaten me to that Ladyhawk, I am sure I will not received anything as detailed as your posting......so I am trying at this end! Let me go now and carefully read through these emails again, thank you both and everyone else who has helped.
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Coincidentally I heard this morning that a lot of Canadian WW1 service records have just been made freely available online. I didn't check precisely, but from the parts that Ladyhawk has quoted, it looks as though it's the same as can be found at Ancestry. This is the page for Thomas Herbert Muir:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=179119
As well as the two images on that page, you can view/download a 32 page pdf of his complete service record.
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Coincidentally I heard this morning that a lot of Canadian WW1 service records have just been made freely available online.
I didn't check precisely, but from the parts that Ladyhawk has quoted, it looks as though it's the same as can be found at Ancestry.
Well found arthurk :) now pyghtle can view all the pages herself - as I only skimmed through to see if I could find some mention of Evelyn
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That is amazing! Thank you so much arthurk, again I have had a quick look but will catch up with it again later when I have more time. I would again like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, the information about Thomas Herbert is a spin off from the information I have just discovered about what happened to my Grandfather Roland Russell. I have just looked back on Rootschat and as far back as 2006 I was asking for help researching him and only now have I found out how and where he died, and the fact that his sister Evelyn Watson was with him when he died has led to this interesting story. I would still like to know how Evelyn came to be in Teddington, “St Lucia” could be a school, maybe she was in service, knowing how family history research works I will find out some time, I have emailed Teddington local history group, maybe they have information, meanwhile I have all this new information to transcribe onto my family tree!
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I know you've been looking into this, but as I was puzzled about Evelyn Ellis in Teddington I thought I'd dig around a bit more. I haven't filled all the gaps by any means, but this is what I'm thinking:
I've just looked at the 1891 census with Evelyn and her family (6 Lovell Terrace, Leeds - RG12/3697 fo111 p23), and I was struck by the similarity between Evelyn's mother Caroline there and Caroline Ellis as found in Teddington in 1911 - same age, both born Yorkshire (places differ, though), and crucially, in the way census returns are written, both could be mother of Evelyn.
So, I wonder if Caroline Ellis in 1911 is Evelyn's mother? (I've also found her in Teddington in 1901 as Carry Ellis, aged 40, living on her own means - listed as a wife, but no husband in the household; RG13/673 fo101 p41.)
I don't know where Harry Ellis is in 1901, and I haven't found a marriage for them either, so I'm wondering if they moved down south and just lived as if married. The length of marriage and number of children shown in 1911 might then relate to Caroline's marriage to John Russell.
Another interesting snippet is that the 1891 household includes a Willie Elliss, 7, a boarder - I wonder if he is related to Harry?
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Another bit to add to this. I'm not saying it's definitely the right one, but it looks interesting.
In the West Yorkshire non-conformist registers at Ancestry there's one for a Wesleyan Chapel in Richmond Hill, which I thought was Leeds. Most or all of the addresses given are in Leeds, but for some reason the pages are headed "Richmond Hill Bradford".
Here I've found a baptism of a William Ellis, son of Henry and Mary, of 14 Carbut Terrace, Leeds; born 15 Nov 1883, bapt 10 Jan 1884.
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Hi...I am sitting here at my computer, still trying to fathom out another mystery about Evelyn when your email arrives! True Evelyn is missing in the 1911 census, then turns up in Teddington where you found Caroline Ellis, so could she still have been the daughter of John Russell and Caroline Ellis, is that what you are thinking? She must have been very close to Roland, he was with her when he died and he called one of his daughters Evelyn she was my Aunt and another daughter Caroline, my Mother. Something else to think about.....Caroline Russell was born in Scarborough 1959, her maiden name was Caroline Thompson Cartwright! (Thompson was her mothers maiden name)
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Sorry.....birth of Caroline should be 1859!
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Yes, what I'm thinking is that John William Russell and Caroline Thompson Cartwright married and had 3 children - shown all together in 1891.
In 1901 they are found in separate households - she as Carry Ellis in Teddington, and he with the children in Leeds.
EDIT:
The information below gives the wrong 1911 census entry for John William Russell. The correct entry is at RG14/27102 sch272 - see replies #54 & 55. I've removed the 1911 signature clip for John/Jack from this post as it's no longer relevant, and struck through the most misleading part of the text.
In 1911 they are again in separate households - she with Harry Ellis in Teddington and using his surname, and he at 1 Cawood Yard, Leeds (RG14/26920 sch42) as Jack Russell, with an Annie Elizabeth who is listed as if his wife.
I haven't managed to find a marriage for either of them to their new partners.
As luck would have it, both John/Jack and Caroline signed their 1911 census forms, so they can be compared with the ones in their marriage entry. Here they are (hopefully arranged in a helpful order) - I think they're pretty similar:
EDIT: John William Russell's signature on a 1911 census form can be seen at RG14/27102 sch272.
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Your theory would certainly answer the question why was Evelyn in Teddington, I have been looking back through the files I have on the Russell’s and according to my records in 1881, they were living in Shakespeare Street Leeds, all the family with Willie Ellis aged 7 as a lodger, Caroline’s Mother Ann Thompson was also living with them, then in 1891 they are living at 6 Lovell Terrace, I know this area and it is close to previous address, then in 1901 living at 16 Rock View with the 3 children, also same area, no mention of Caroline, I have Caroline as dying in 1900, this from Yorkshire BMD, but this research was a long time ago so will check if I can find record of a grave anywhere. Maybe I should be trying to find out who Willie Ellis was, and need to check the death dates for Caroline.
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Remember that divorce wasn't easy, or cheap, back then.
So much easier to just tell people you were married! ;D
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Just found a death, Caroline Russell born 1859 died in Teddington 24th January 1920!
Looks as though you are right arthurk, another family “skeleton in the closet” I now must carry on and find out who Harry Ellis is!
That certainly explained why Evelyn was there.
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Another bit to add to this. I'm not saying it's definitely the right one, but it looks interesting.
In the West Yorkshire non-conformist registers at Ancestry there's one for a Wesleyan Chapel in Richmond Hill, which I thought was Leeds. Most or all of the addresses given are in Leeds, but for some reason the pages are headed "Richmond Hill Bradford".
Here I've found a baptism of a William Ellis, son of Henry and Mary, of 14 Carbut Terrace, Leeds; born 15 Nov 1883, bapt 10 Jan 1884.
could this be William's birth entry
ELLIS, WILLIAM mmn GLENTON
1883 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 447
There are also these entries
ELLIS, HENRY mmn GLENTON
1872 D Quarter in HUNSLET Volume 09B Page 328
ELLIS, BRUCE mmn GLENTON
1874 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 467
ELLIS, MARY mmn GLENTON
1876 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 452
added - possible death of above Mary Ellis in Jun 1879 Leeds age 2
This is the closet marriage I found 1871
ELLIS Henry LENTON Mary All Saints, Leeds
ELLIS Henry LEUTON Mary All Saints, Leeds
LENTON Mary ELLIS Henry All Saints, Leeds
LEUTON Mary ELLIS Henry All Saints, Leeds
1881 RG11; Piece: 4521; Folio: 66; Page: 4
Henry Ellis 26
Mary Ellis 29
Henry Ellis 8
Bruce Ellis 6
1891 RG12; Piece: 3693; Folio: 37; Page: 3
Harold Ellis 37 widow bn Leeds
Harry Ellis 18
Bruce Ellis 16
Harold Ellis Birth 1852 Leeds
Death 30 Mar 1917
Death Teddington, London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, Greater London, England
Cemetery: Teddington Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/137547111
Commission Agent
Lived at St Lucia, Hampton Road, Teddington
Buried 04 Apr 1917, aged 65
Inscription
In Loving Memory Of
Harold Ellis
(My Harry)
Who Fell Asleep March 30th 1917
Aged 65 Years Grave A.43
This Stone Was Erected By
His Beloved Carrie In Silent Grief
Who passed Peacefully Away
January 24th 1920
Age 61 Years
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Henry Ellis age 20, mechanic, York Place father William, fitter
Mary Lenton age 20 Whitehouse Terrace father William, Smith
Wits Joseph Hepson & Elizabeth Robinson, all made their mark (x)
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1871 All Saints Leeds
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I just logged on to say that I found Caroline’s death in Teddington cemetery, buried 24th January 1920, Roland died in 1918, so his mother and his sister were with him when he died.
Just had a quick skim read of your post Ladyhawk, but now going to go through it slowly, the memorial is really interesting, my mother (daughter of Roland) was called Caroline, but always known as Carrie!
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I just logged on to say that I found Caroline’s death in Teddington cemetery, buried 24th January 1920, Roland died in 1918, so his mother and his sister were with him when he died.
Just had a quick skim read of your post Ladyhawk, but now going to go through it slowly, the memorial is really interesting, my mother (daughter of Roland) was called Caroline, but always known as Carrie!
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/137547182
looks to be the same grave stone and burial plot as Harold Ellis
Caroline Russell
BIRTH 1859 Scarborough, Scarborough Borough, North Yorkshire, England
DEATH 24 Jan 1920 (aged 60–61)
BURIAL Teddington Cemetery
PLOT Cu Grave A.43
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Good finds, Ladyhawk.
From Find a Will:
ELLIS Harry of St Lucia Hampton Road Teddington Middlesex died 30 Mar 1917. Probate London 22 Feb 1918 to Caroline Russell (wife of John William Russell). Effects £1585
RUSSELL otherwise ELLIS Caroline of Rosendale, Windsor Road, Teddington Middlesex (wife of John Russell) died 24 Jan 1920. Probate London 22 Mar 1920 to Evelyn Watson (wife of William Watson) and Ernest Edward Bird solicitor. Effects £14108 15s 3d.
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Well done arthurk :)
for info. this is probably death entry of Henry/Harold's wife Mary Ellis
Jun 1889 Leeds 9b 326
Ellis Mary age 37
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ELLIS Harry of St Lucia Hampton Road Teddington Middlesex died 30 Mar 1917. Probate London 22 Feb 1918 to Caroline Russell (wife of John William Russell). Effects £1585
The address ties in with the Army record for Thomas Herbert Muir wife Evelyn Muir/Watson nee Russell and 1911c for Harry, Caroline & Evelyn Ellis
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Is this the death entry for JWR?
Mar 1927 Leeds 9b 613
Russell John W age 71
City of Leeds
Leeds Cemetery (General Portion)
Register of Inscription Graves
There are 9 names on page 135
Grave no 21364 section 2
John W Russell Age: 71
Death Date: 1 Feb 1927
Burial Place: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Interment
6
Consecutive Number of Interment
72812
details from Leeds, England, Beckett Street Cemetery, 1845 - 1987
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The transcription of that burial entry at Yorkshire Indexers gives his address as 16 Westlock Terrace and his occupation as fireclay labourer.
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The transcription of that burial entry at Yorkshire Indexers gives his address as 16 Westlock Terrace and his occupation as fireclay labourer.
That address is on this marriage cert, also latest census Harold, brother & father
25 Dec 1915 Armley, St Bartholomew, Yorkshire
Harold Frederick Russell 33, turner, 16 Westlock Terrace Burmantofts
Father John William Russell occ clay grinder
Annie Ibbotson 32, tailoress, 80 Grasmere St., Armley
father Edmund, railway guard
Harold Frederick Russell Baptism 8 Mar 1882 Burmantofts, St Stephen, Yorkshire
Father: John William Russell, occ miner Mother: Caroline
abode 84 Shakespeare St
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Hi, I’m back.....I am amazed at all these findings, I did know a lot of the Leeds bits, I knew where John William was buried, I have been to his grave, it’s a communal grave in Becket Street Cemetery, but never in a million years would I have found all the information about Caroline, I just assumed that she died between 1901 and 1911. All this has snowballed from finding details of Roland Russell’s death in Teddington, my Grandmother Emma Russell, Roland’s wife must have known all this, but I suppose in those days it was quite a disgrace to leave your husband, your detective work arthurk persisting in following the Ellis lead has been really impressive, but thanks also to everyone who has contributed, it means a lot to me because I knew some of the people involved, some questions will never be answered, I have photographs of Roland but nothing else, no clues whatsoever of this family history. I now will read through everything again and update my family tree.
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Just thinking....Roland was in Teddington, Emma in Leeds, he dies in Teddington with his sister and Mother and not in Leeds with his wife and family, but buried in Leeds, wonder if he had left Emma, or did he go to Teddington in order to protect his family from the flu pendamic, I am only thinking this because no one in the family seemed to know what happened to Roland, so if he had left Emma she would have kept it a secret, everyone in the family always said that he died in the First World War, this is why it has taken me so long to find his death, I was on the wrong trail for years.
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Yes, what I'm thinking is that John William Russell and Caroline Thompson Cartwright married and had 3 children - shown all together in 1891.
In 1901 they are found in separate households - she as Carry Ellis in Teddington, and he with the children in Leeds.
In 1911 they are again in separate households - she with Harry Ellis in Teddington and using his surname, and he at 1 Cawood Yard, Leeds (RG14/26920 sch42) as Jack Russell, with an Annie Elizabeth who is listed as if his wife.
I haven't managed to find a marriage for either of them to their new partners.
As luck would have it, both John/Jack and Caroline signed their 1911 census forms, so they can be compared with the ones in their marriage entry. Here they are (hopefully arranged in a helpful order) - I think they're pretty similar:
On re reading your post Caroline’s husband John William Russell is with his 2 sons Harold Frederick & Roland on 1911 c (family search shows him as William Russell married age 56 born Leeds pottery labourer ) if you compare JWR signature it looks very similar to the JWR as posted by Arthurk reply 38
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You're quite right - so there's no evidence here that John took up with another woman. And the address in this 1911 entry is the same as the one in the burial register (16 Westlock Terrace). For anyone who wants to check the 1911 census, it's at RG14/27102 sch272.
I'll amend my earlier post to make clear that I had the wrong entry. (Done)
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I know this thread is finished but I would just like to share this, found on Family Search.....
Thomas Herbert Muir
It has been said that he and his brother John (*Jack) tossed a coin to see who would remain and run the business of Muir Electric in Vancouver B.C. and who would sign up for duty. Thomas went back to England to get married and was married only six months when he was killed. Tom was in a small hole about 6 ft by 2 ft with one of the Officers (there were only two men to each hole) when the bombardment commenced and a shell landed close t the hole but nearest to Tom and buried them both. Fortunately for the Officer, he had his head out but Tom was completely buried and when they got to him he was deceased. This story was quoted by his brother. Alfred in his letter of March 26 1917 addressed to Jack Muir.